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10-17-2018, 02:04 PM   #1
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Battery issues with *ist-DS

I'm hoping that if someone else has had a similar issue, they've managed to resolve it. The issue: I have a Pentax *ist-Ds I've used for about 12 years, and I've always used AA lithiums with no issues. I went to use it a few days ago, and it wouldn't power up - not even the blinking "battery depleted" symbol. I installed *new* (exp. 2027) AA lithiums, and got the blinking symbol. I tried four sets of AA lithiums and found *one* set that worked. I also tried a set of AA alkalines, which *also* worked. (Note: I don't have, and don't want, any NiMH rechargeables; my previous experience with them was not very good, even the top-of-the-line ones were just too much of a hassle, and had invariably self-discharged just when I wanted to use them. And that was using a "best quality" conditioning charger from Maha. NiMH just has too short a "charged" life to be acceptable when I only use the camera every couple of months. *And* one exploded - loud "BANG!"; crap all over the walls - in the charger.)


Anyway, I did some measurements, and found that the set of AA lithiums which worked were down to around 1.70-1.72 volts (unloaded); the AA alkalines were the usual 1.55V. All the AA lithiums which *didn't* work (which were all "new, unused" with expiration dates from 2022-2027) measured 1.84-1.86V (unloaded), the usual open-circuit voltage for new lithiums.

So here's the question: Has anyone experienced a problem with either the *ist-DS or another Pentax DSLR in which a too-*high* battery voltage caused the camera to show "depleted" and refuse to power-up? If so, did you find a solution? If not, I'll continue to use the batteries which work (and I have a pair of Duracell Ultra Cr-V3 lithiums on order, which I'll try when they arrive next week).

Thanks for any help!

10-17-2018, 02:13 PM - 1 Like   #2
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With all the money you spend on batteries you could probably just buy a used camera in good working order.
10-17-2018, 02:23 PM   #3
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Perhaps the camera has gotten less tolerant over time? I wouldn't be too worry as long as the other set of batteries works 12 years from a DS is quite impressive!

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10-17-2018, 03:16 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
With all the money you spend on batteries you could probably just buy a used camera in good working order.
Doubtful, since a set of 4 lithium Energizer Ultimate AA's costs about $6 and lasts me about a year. Or more.

10-17-2018, 03:24 PM   #5
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".. *high* battery voltage caused the camera to show "depleted" and refuse to power-up.."

An old rechargeable battery can show more than 1.5 volts and when plug into camera, there is a power loss right away. That is because the battery do not hold charges for a long time.
It is better to buy battery OTC like energizer than any rechargeable used more than five years.
10-17-2018, 03:31 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Perhaps the camera has gotten less tolerant over time? I wouldn't be too worry as long as the other set of batteries works 12 years from a DS is quite impressive!
I just seemed strange to me (and I'm a retired EE) that higher-voltage batteries caused the "depleted" icon; maybe it should be called a "bad battery" icon instead... I'm hoping that the Cr-V3's will work from the get-go, so that I don't have to "select" batteries that have started down; lithiums have a *very* flat discharge curve.

I have a Canon Ft-QL I got in 1967, and it still works, as does the Pentax ME-F I got sometime in the early '80s (although they've both been "in retirement" since around '08, when film got a bit hard to find and DSLR resolution improved to be almost as good as film), so I *expect* cameras to work for a while.

---------- Post added 10-17-18 at 03:35 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Penview52 Quote
".. *high* battery voltage caused the camera to show "depleted" and refuse to power-up.."

An old rechargeable battery can show more than 1.5 volts and when plug into camera, there is a power loss right away. That is because the battery do not hold charges for a long time.
It is better to buy battery OTC like energizer than any rechargeable used more than five years.
The batteries that wouldn't work were *new* non-rechargeable lithium AAs, and the only set that worked had a lower voltage than the new ones, as I stated. That was the issue, that partially discharged batteries, or alkalines with their lower voltage, worked, and brand-new lithiums didn't, again as I stated.
10-17-2018, 04:21 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bob C. Quote
I have a Canon Ft-QL I got in 1967, and it still works, as does the Pentax ME-F I got sometime in the early '80s (although they've both been "in retirement" since around '08, when film got a bit hard to find and DSLR resolution improved to be almost as good as film), so I *expect* cameras to work for a while.
Sadly, Bob, the products of the 60s, 70s and 80s bear little resemblance to those of modern days. Gone are the discrete resistors, capacitors, transistors etc. It's all far more miniaturised and integrated now. Today's cameras - even your ageing *ist-DS - aren't really cameras at all in the classic sense of the word. They're computers with digital I/O and a few electro-mechanical assemblies. You can expect them to work for a while, but that doesn't mean they will, I'm afraid. They'll go the same way as most IC-based products. That Pentax ME-F you mentioned will be working, or at least repairable, years from now when even today's Pentax K-1 and K-1II will be obsolete because of component unavailability. Earlier mechanical cameras with no electronics whatsoever will be maintainable for decades after that ME-F has gasped its final breath

10-17-2018, 04:29 PM   #8
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I had battery problems with my ist DS and my K200D, both showed "battery depleted" even with lithiums and Eneloops. If you search Pentax battery depleted you will get plenty of similar tales.
Cant remember if the DS has an external power option but I remember other Pentax owners saying it worked. My DS in the end would only give me about 50 shots before any battery would show "depleted" my K200D about 10 before dying. I avoided Pentax cameras that used AA batteries after this and have no problems
10-17-2018, 04:34 PM   #9
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I've just tested my istDS with a bench power supply to the battery terminals, the camera had no problems turning on with 8V total ( = 2.0V per battery ) and battery indicator showed "full" I didn't like to push it further. So I don't think there is any over voltage lockout. Although I would hope there is some over voltage protection for the electronics.
10-17-2018, 05:25 PM   #10
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" that partially discharged batteries, or alkalines with their lower voltage, worked, and brand-new lithiums didn't, again as I stated"

Low voltage batteries worked in the camera. That's a good indication that you don't have to buy a new one. It sounds not normal circuits as compared to when the camera is new. I believed that the problem is not the battery indicator but the cameras' RLC circuits.
10-17-2018, 05:28 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Sadly, Bob, the products of the 60s, 70s and 80s bear little resemblance to those of modern days. Gone are the discrete resistors, capacitors, transistors etc. It's all far more miniaturised and integrated now. Today's cameras - even your ageing *ist-DS - aren't really cameras at all in the classic sense of the word. They're computers with digital I/O and a few electro-mechanical assemblies. You can expect them to work for a while, but that doesn't mean they will, I'm afraid. They'll go the same way as most IC-based products. That Pentax ME-F you mentioned will be working, or at least repairable, years from now when even today's Pentax K-1 and K-1II will be obsolete because of component unavailability. Earlier mechanical cameras with no electronics whatsoever will be maintainable for decades after that ME-F has gasped its final breath
Yeah, I'm aware of the issues you note. I'm sure my Ft-QL, with its sole electrics being a lightmeter, will be usable long after even the ME-F has gone to that "big camera bag in the sky", just as my Hi-Matic G and Polaroid Land camera (neither of which I still use) will. But I still expect a couple of decades out of the "latest and greatest" (at the time); FWIW, I still use a flipphone bacause it works just fine *as* a phone, and I don't need the features of the current smartphones. And again FWIW, the *ist-DS works fine as long as it recognizes that the batteries are there.

---------- Post added 10-17-18 at 05:31 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by zippythezip Quote
I had battery problems with my ist DS and my K200D, both showed "battery depleted" even with lithiums and Eneloops. If you search Pentax battery depleted you will get plenty of similar tales.
Cant remember if the DS has an external power option but I remember other Pentax owners saying it worked. My DS in the end would only give me about 50 shots before any battery would show "depleted" my K200D about 10 before dying. I avoided Pentax cameras that used AA batteries after this and have no problems
Thanks for the ref; I'll check it out. For now, as long as it recognizes that the batteries are there it works fine, and I get milti-thousand shots with a single set, so I'll cross my fingers, and hope the Cr-V3's fix the problem...

---------- Post added 10-17-18 at 05:34 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Cee Cee Quote
I've just tested my istDS with a bench power supply to the battery terminals, the camera had no problems turning on with 8V total ( = 2.0V per battery ) and battery indicator showed "full" I didn't like to push it further. So I don't think there is any over voltage lockout. Although I would hope there is some over voltage protection for the electronics.
OK; thanks. I suspect there *is* OV protection built-in, which, if it's an "aging" issue, may be the cause of the problem I'm seeing.

---------- Post added 10-17-18 at 05:37 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Penview52 Quote
" that partially discharged batteries, or alkalines with their lower voltage, worked, and brand-new lithiums didn't, again as I stated"

Low voltage batteries worked in the camera. That's a good indication that you don't have to buy a new one. It sounds not normal circuits as compared to when the camera is new. I believed that the problem is not the battery indicator but the cameras' RLC circuits.
Coiuld be, but I know of no way to test it other than what I've seen. If necessary (if the Cr-3v's don't work) I'll use alkalines, even though the manual calls them "emergency only" and states they may reduce some functionality.
10-17-2018, 09:45 PM   #12
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I suspect the camera measures battery voltage under various load conditions and software makes a determination on battery condition then shuts down if you ask it to anything the battery can't cope with, after all you don't want the mirror to get stuck half way through it's cycle. Perhaps testing the batteries under load may provide some insight, as a guide my camera draws about 70mA "on" and about 160mA "when active -ready to fire" and according to the service manual a peak current in the order of 2700mA when shutter activated ! Maybe test @100mA (15ohms for 1.5V battery) and check that the voltage doesn't fall away.
I wouldn't think the extra voltage is not high enough to trip any OV protection (unless there's a fault as you say)

Also the firmware version may be relevant to the battery condition determination. ie. parameters may have been amended in later firmware. ... the catch 22 is you need a stable battery supply or external supply for firmware update or it could all end in tears!
10-17-2018, 11:10 PM   #13
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DS user here too.

SAdly, it's jsut something they do as they age.
When mine was last looked at by a sercie centre they said that it wasnt about battery voltage, so much as current.

I always used to use CRV3's with alkaline AA as my backups.

One day it stopped registering the V3 altogether just as you're describing.

I was suggested to try Eneloop rechargables, as they apparently can output higher current than other batteries. Not 100% on how accurate that is, but all I know is that they worked.

Discharge rates have been fine with mine, I've not used my DSLR for a while, and the last time I charged the batteries was some time in 2017. So discharge isnt a big issue there.

---------- Post added 18-10-18 at 05:14 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Cee Cee Quote
Also the firmware version may be relevant to the battery condition determination. ie. parameters may have been amended in later firmware. ... the catch 22 is you need a stable battery supply or external supply for firmware update or it could all end in tears!

Can confirm it's not a firmware issue.
I've got the last firmware on mine, and still it's fussy with batteries.


My theory is that over time some of the components inside degrade and start to draw more power than they did when new, and that some batteries cant supply the current needed.

KInd of annoying, because the DS was the last Pentax DSLR to use off the shelf batteries (without a grip or accessory) wasnt it?
Everything after the DS went to the rechargables (which I dislike, but meh, that's business for ya)
10-18-2018, 12:06 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bob C. Quote
Doubtful, since a set of 4 lithium Energizer Ultimate AA's costs about $6 and lasts me about a year. Or more.
And out of every 4 batteries you buy only 1 is useable?

So you spent ~$24 to find one set of batteries that works. What about next year, suppose you don't find a set that works after buying four or more sets? Batteries differ from batch to batch as well as by brand.

You could buy a *istDS from KEH for $29 with a six month warranty.
10-18-2018, 12:40 AM   #15
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I had no idea they were that cheap in the USA!

Cheapest i've ever seem for sale was au$200 (~140usd), no warranty at all.



I may just buy my next body from KEH then! (I;m assuming the only difference between a US market and AU market one would be the battery charger?)
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