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10-18-2018, 01:50 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by zippythezip Quote
Cant remember if the DS has an external power option
It does.

10-18-2018, 01:53 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by hks_kansei Quote
My theory is that over time some of the components inside degrade and start to draw more power than they did when new, and that some batteries cant supply the current needed.
Ah... it's all coming back to me now, somewhere on this site is a post about these battery issues and replacing (or parallel connecting) and electrolytic capacitor. Electrolytic capacitors are a component that can deteriorate with age, heat and wear & tear. I have a recollection of doing this to my DS and a friend's K200 which seemed to have similar problems. It did seem to work !

Doesn't do any thing for the OP's question of over voltage though.
10-18-2018, 01:55 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by hks_kansei Quote




KInd of annoying, because the DS was the last Pentax DSLR to use off the shelf batteries (without a grip or accessory) wasnt it?
Everything after the DS went to the rechargables (which I dislike, but meh, that's business for ya)
My K-500 runs happily on alkalines but you need a AA battery holder: Pentax D-BH109 AA Battery Holder for Select Pentax Digital 39100
10-18-2018, 05:49 AM   #19
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I had a somewhat similar experience with my *istDL when I took it out of storage after a long time. It refused to start up and just showed that blinking battery indicator no matter what batteries I inserted. It finally woke up after I had stored it with fresh batteries inserted for a few days and then worked fine. The problem was not the main (external) batteries but rather the small internal rechargable battery in the camera. When it was completely flat it was hard to get it to start charging again and the camera refused to turn on. Once that was recharged everything was fine. When the internal battery runs out of juice you have to set the date and time the next time you use the camera.

10-18-2018, 09:10 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cee Cee Quote
I suspect the camera measures battery voltage under various load conditions and software makes a determination on battery condition then shuts down if you ask it to anything the battery can't cope with, after all you don't want the mirror to get stuck half way through it's cycle. Perhaps testing the batteries under load may provide some insight, as a guide my camera draws about 70mA "on" and about 160mA "when active -ready to fire" and according to the service manual a peak current in the order of 2700mA when shutter activated ! Maybe test @100mA (15ohms for 1.5V battery) and check that the voltage doesn't fall away.
I wouldn't think the extra voltage is not high enough to trip any OV protection (unless there's a fault as you say)

Also the firmware version may be relevant to the battery condition determination. ie. parameters may have been amended in later firmware. ... the catch 22 is you need a stable battery supply or external supply for firmware update or it could all end in tears!
Thanks for the follow-up. It could be that the firmware does some sort of start-up test, but that doesn't explain why only batteries with a lower open-circuit voltage (alkalines and partially-discharged lithiums) work unless there's a fault in the hardware. And the firmware is up to date - v.2.02. I'm going to wait and see how the Cr-V3s work before I make any decisions; if they work I'll call it good-to-go.

---------- Post added 10-18-18 at 09:14 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by hks_kansei Quote
DS user here too.

SAdly, it's jsut something they do as they age.
When mine was last looked at by a sercie centre they said that it wasnt about battery voltage, so much as current.

I always used to use CRV3's with alkaline AA as my backups.

One day it stopped registering the V3 altogether just as you're describing.

I was suggested to try Eneloop rechargables, as they apparently can output higher current than other batteries. Not 100% on how accurate that is, but all I know is that they worked.

Discharge rates have been fine with mine, I've not used my DSLR for a while, and the last time I charged the batteries was some time in 2017. So discharge isnt a big issue there.

---------- Post added 18-10-18 at 05:14 PM ----------




Can confirm it's not a firmware issue.
I've got the last firmware on mine, and still it's fussy with batteries.


My theory is that over time some of the components inside degrade and start to draw more power than they did when new, and that some batteries cant supply the current needed.

KInd of annoying, because the DS was the last Pentax DSLR to use off the shelf batteries (without a grip or accessory) wasnt it?
Everything after the DS went to the rechargables (which I dislike, but meh, that's business for ya)
Thanks. That was my suspicion (aging components, probably with not enough margin even when new), but I'm glad to see it confirmed. I'll see how the Cr-V3s do, and go from there.

---------- Post added 10-18-18 at 09:21 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
And out of every 4 batteries you buy only 1 is useable?

So you spent ~$24 to find one set of batteries that works. What about next year, suppose you don't find a set that works after buying four or more sets? Batteries differ from batch to batch as well as by brand.

You could buy a *istDS from KEH for $29 with a six month warranty.
Nope, read my first post. They're all batteries I had on-hand (all Energizer Ultimates), and only a set which had been used a while and had started down the discharge curve would allow the camera to turn on. All the batteries are good, as I noted; it's not a "bad battery" issue. So I buy another identical camera with a 6-month warranty, and in 7 months I have the same issue (since it's apparently a DS "thing"; ref post 13)? Doesn't sound like a very good idea to me...

---------- Post added 10-18-18 at 09:28 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by hks_kansei Quote
I had no idea they were that cheap in the USA!

Cheapest i've ever seem for sale was au$200 (~140usd), no warranty at all.



I may just buy my next body from KEH then! (I;m assuming the only difference between a US market and AU market one would be the battery charger?)
KEH currently has two, one for $29 ("As-is") and one for $84 ("Ex+). If I thought the problem was unique to my camera, I might consider a replacement (or an upgrade), but since a couple of responses have indicated similar issues I'd probably jus be wasting my money.

---------- Post added 10-18-18 at 09:37 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by pixelsaurus Quote
It does.
If you're talking about the AC adapter that plugs into the port inside the left door, that wouldn't be very handy for walking around. Or do you know of a belt-type external battery pack that will work?

---------- Post added 10-18-18 at 09:41 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by gylfimag Quote
I had a somewhat similar experience with my *istDL when I took it out of storage after a long time. It refused to start up and just showed that blinking battery indicator no matter what batteries I inserted. It finally woke up after I had stored it with fresh batteries inserted for a few days and then worked fine. The problem was not the main (external) batteries but rather the small internal rechargable battery in the camera. When it was completely flat it was hard to get it to start charging again and the camera refused to turn on. Once that was recharged everything was fine. When the internal battery runs out of juice you have to set the date and time the next time you use the camera.
I think it's actually a capacitor, not an internal rechargeable battery (but I could be mistaken). Anyway, it's working now, so I'll see how it does with a different set of new batteries in a few days, although I can't imagine it taking more than a few seconds to to put a charge on a capacitor, or a couple of hours to charge an internal battery.
10-18-2018, 10:34 AM   #21
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I have one of these that won’t work with regular aa’s. Eneloops work perfectly though
10-18-2018, 10:53 AM - 1 Like   #22
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I've also experienced my *ist DL2 reporting dead batteries with a brand new set of lithiums. The solution is to first put the batteries in something less voltage sensitive like a flash to wake them up. Works every time, and charging up the flash just once is enough.

10-18-2018, 12:28 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aryasprayer Quote
I have one of these that won’t work with regular aa’s. Eneloops work perfectly though
I may wind up trying them, but I'll wait until I've tried the Cr-V3's I have on order. Based on what I've read over the past couple of days, it does seem that NiMH cells have been improved quite a bit since the ones I found to be essentially useless about 15 years ago.

---------- Post added 10-18-18 at 12:31 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Dartmoor Dave Quote
I've also experienced my *ist DL2 reporting dead batteries with a brand new set of lithiums. The solution is to first put the batteries in something less voltage sensitive like a flash to wake them up. Works every time, and charging up the flash just once is enough.
Well *that's* a new one, unless the flash use dropped the voltage enough that it was within the (apparent) acceptable range for the firmware, like the partially-depleted lithiums and the new alkalines that work in my camera. I'll give it a try; thanks.
10-18-2018, 01:40 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bob C. Quote
I may wind up trying them, but I'll wait until I've tried the Cr-V3's I have on order. Based on what I've read over the past couple of days, it does seem that NiMH cells have been improved quite a bit since the ones I found to be essentially useless about 15 years ago.
When I was regularly using a *ist DS while it was still a current camera, I only used NiMH batteries in it, with no problem.
10-18-2018, 02:29 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by leekil Quote
When I was regularly using a *ist DS while it was still a current camera, I only used NiMH batteries in it, with no problem.
That seems to be the general consensus. When I was using rechargeable NiMH's about 15 years ago they were junk, and self-discharged in a couple of weeks, a month at most. Apparently the new ones are *way* better.
10-18-2018, 03:48 PM   #26
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I still use my *ist DS every week using Cr-V3's. The other battery types give variable results and the Cr-V3's last A LONG TIME.
10-18-2018, 04:44 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentax Syntax Quote
I still use my *ist DS every week using Cr-V3's. The other battery types give variable results and the Cr-V3's last A LONG TIME.
OK; thanks. I have a pair on order, and I'll check them out when they arrive.
10-18-2018, 06:18 PM   #28
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From the service manual... further to information below I can say that 1/2 battery indication is at 5.4V and flashing symbol & lockout is at 4.2V. There is no mention of Over Voltage or OV test.
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Last edited by Cee Cee; 10-18-2018 at 06:24 PM.
10-18-2018, 08:01 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cee Cee Quote
From the service manual... further to information below I can say that 1/2 battery indication is at 5.4V and flashing symbol & lockout is at 4.2V. There is no mention of Over Voltage or OV test.
Thanks! I don't have anything but batteries to use as a check, but unless *all* the unused Energizer Ultimates I have are defective, that seems to say that there's a problem in the camera.
10-18-2018, 09:21 PM   #30
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some good info here about lithium batteries and open & loaded voltages. an interesting point is anything under 1.70 V open circuit is considered discharged


http://data.energizer.com/pdfs/lithiuml91l92_appman.pdf
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