[ramseybuckeye]

Singing with the choir here, the 18-135 is a much better lens and highly versatile. And skip that 50-200, the 55-300 PLM is a winner.

[mikesbike]

If or in case you choose to shoot high-quality jpeg images, be sure to set up your camera in advance when you get it, so that "Fine Sharpening" is applied in the Custom Image menus. Do this with your mode dial set to Program mode. Avoid the green "auto" mode on your mode dial- it eliminates some features or reduces adjustment options, and the camera makes decisions on its own, which you may not want. The "P" mode is best for fully automated exposure, while preserving your control options.

Implementing "Fine Sharpening" will make a difference in favor of better detail in your images.

[Des]

I don't think this is a difficult choice between these options. I've got the DA 18-135mm and it is an excellent lens for all the reasons mentioned above. Apart from the convenience of having such a wide coverage in a single compact lens, image quality and build quality are very good - well ahead of the kit lenses. BTW the thread devoted to the 18-135 that @Mikesbike mentioned is here: DA 18-135 WR, Show us what it can do - PentaxForums.com That thread will give you an idea of how good it is in real world use.

I would buy just the body and purchase a couple of lenses separately.

That raises an interesting question: what is the effective cost of the lenses?

Jessops have the K-70 body only for £399 (£599 less £200 using a voucher code: Pentax Digital SLR Cameras - Jessops) So the real choice is £399 for the body only or £659 for the K-70 + DA 18-135. That puts the effective price of the 18-135 at £260. The best UK price I could see for the lens alone was £300 (Find the best price on Ricoh-Pentax SMC-DA 18-135/3.5-5.6 AL IF DC WR | Compare deals on PriceSpy UK), so it looks a good deal.

The DA 16-85, which has been mentioned as an alternative option, is £499 at Jessops (Pentax DA 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6 Lens - Jessops) - effectively £240 more than the 18-135. So you'd be looking at about £898 for the K-70 + DA 16-85. While the 16-85 is no doubt a fine lens (it would be better than the 18-135 for architecture or other shots where corner to corner sharpness really matters), to be honest, I think you'd do better to save the £240 difference and put it towards getting either a telephoto zoom lens (such as the DA 55-300 PLM which has been rightly lauded above) or a prime lens like the DA 35 f2.4 or DA 50 f1.8 (or one of the myriad other fine options in K-mount) or one of the wide-angle lenses that has been mentioned. Your intended uses suggest to me that a good wide angle lens might be the next item for your kit. I have the DA 12-24 f4 and it would be an excellent choice for architecture or landscape shots. The forthcoming DA 11-18 (to be released in 2019) is likely to be even better, but significantly more expensive

[fsge]

Without any hesitation I would pick 18-135 over bi kit.
I had 18-55 + 50-200 in the past and when I bought 18-135 I never touched them anymore. Quality and range wise this one is the best compromise.

[steve_k]

First I would like to say welcome to the forums. I am assuming that this is your first Pentax DSLR. As most everyone here has said the 18-135 is the way to go. I have many lenses and this is still one of my favorites because of it’s versatility. Learn to use your camera and discover what you like to shoot with this lens. Then that will help determine which lenses to purchase in the future. You may find that you want to shoot wider or that you need something longer. The most important thing is to have fun and experiment.

[Des]

First I would like to say welcome to the forums.

Same here. I missed that it was the OP's first post.

The near-unanimity of views in this thread isn't typical of Pentax Forums. But the friendliness and helpfulness is. ;-)

Looking at buying k-70 for landscape, architecture and commercial outside shoots.

I wasn't clear on what you mean by "commercial outside shoots" Dan. Do you mean you want to shoot images for your business's website or promotional material? Or are you looking at paid photography? Something else? Would you be using flash or natural light only? Do you need a wide aperture for low light or to isolate the subject? I ask because it might affect the choice of kit.

[mikesbike]

Same here. I missed that it was the OP's first post.

The near-unanimity of views in this thread isn't typical of Pentax Forums. But the friendliness and helpfulness is. ;-)


I wasn't clear on what you mean by "commercial outside shoots" Dan. Do you mean you want to shoot images for your business's website or promotional material? Or are you looking at paid photography? Something else? Would you be using flash or natural light only? Do you need a wide aperture for low light or to isolate the subject? I ask because it might affect the choice of kit.

Yes, I would agree except for the budget constraints imposed. However, the DA 18-135mm is indeed so versatile that it can be successful even for architecture if used within a certain portion of its FL range. For instance, from about 22-45mm distortion will be low, along with very good edge-to-edge quality. This should suffice, even for professional work if absolutely necessary.

It is amazing what can be done with a good consumer lens when using it at its best. Years ago, still shooting film, I was visiting a couple who are craft-artist friends, and during my visit it turned out they needed some pro-caliber shots of a couple of pieces of their work, to be done on slides, to send in to an advertising outfit for publication in a magazine. They turned to me, as I was just visiting from out of state. (if I could bring it off, it would save them $$$ not having to hire from a pro photographer establishment, since I would take no pay). They bought the film, which I suggested for this work. All I had along was my lowly general-purpose Pentax FA 28-200mm zoom lens, a hot shoe flash, and my PZ-1p SLR body. I set it up on a tripod, used the hot shoe flash angled for bounce, set up some flash comp adjustment, and popped up the built-in flash for fill, also with some comp adjustment, and went to work. (a setup I love about the PZ-1p) I shot one roll for the job- plenty for only these few subjects. The distance was perfect for using this lens at its best advantage. I got shots from several angles, and at apertures providing good DOF and at FLs providing good perspective. A few days later, my friends got feedback from the ad editor, saying how outstanding these slides were (!), any of which would be fine for publication, so they picked what they thought was best for the available space. They knew nothing of the equipment used, apparently thinking it was pro studio work!! Ha ha! Shot in their living room with some kind of backdrop.

Later of course, there will come along other lenses for the OP (and btw, Dan, welcome to the forum from me also!). One lens, for example, could be the DA 12-24mm f/4 which would be great for his intentions. Very low distortion from about 15-22mm with excellent edge-to-edge performance. We buy DSLR gear with the idea of being able to change lenses- but those don't necessarily all have to be acquired at the same time!

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Last edited by mikesbike; 12-22-2018 at 04:53 PM.

[KoolKool]

- K-70 with kit 18mm-135mm or -> highly recommend!

if you even get good copy of the len too!

[Dan Neeton]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to help.

I am really torn between Pentax k-70 and Canon 200D as the canon kit lenses are really good. (Can get Canon 200D with 18-55mm and full frame 50mm prime for £519)

Youtu.be

Youtu.be

However the k-70 is a better body for photos and will will need to invest a lot into lenses initially.

I am starting as a beginner but want to get into outdoor photography and perhaps later on if I am any good at it, start charging companies for taking photos for their websites etc. I know I should be looking at full frame and the idea of buying full frame lenses from the get go does make financial sense.

Help

---------- Post added 12-24-18 at 02:01 AM ----------

Also what is the 18-50mm like as you can buy new for £200

[DrawsACircle]

I used cameradecision.com when I had to choose between a Nikon d7200 or a Canon 750d - I ended up with the K-70
Pentax K-70 vs Canon SL2 Detailed Comparison

Weather sealed, IBIS, astrotracer, hundreds of lenses - what’s not to like?

[mikesbike]

There is simply no comparison between that Canon body and kit, and the Pentax K-70, DA18-135mm kit.

The Canon body is not weather-sealed, and operates with a single thumb e-dial. To switch between controlling your shutter speed and controlling your aperture, you have to simultaneously hold another button down and release it alternately while operating the single thumb dial. A typical amateur body. The K-70 is weather sealed and features separate thumb and finger dials, which is in line with higher-priced professional camera models. And just wait until you find out just how efficient this can be with the exclusive Pentax Hyper System of operation.


Along with that controls system of the Canon body, comes the typical amateur dimmer, smaller, pentamirror viewfinder. It just comes together with that level of camera. The K-70's VF is the more expensive pro-style glass pentaprism, with a rating of 100% coverage of the frame, again of professional standard- what you see is what you will get. It also has an outstanding magnification of 95x. Without looking at the specs, it's also a safe bet that the Canon's VF spec will be no more than 95% coverage and will have less than 90x magnification.

With the K-70 you also get the advantage of pixel-shift technology for the highest-quality imaging. Along with the K-70's very advanced high-ISO performance for low noise with preservation of detail, and with the pixel-density of its 24mp sensor, you have a system that can truly rival full-frame performance. The K-70 is a very fine tool for the needs you have expressed. For all that it is and can do, it comes at a remarkable price point.


That Canon kit lens I have seen on display in common chain stores here in the US. Cheaply-built, very plastic-feel with poor manual-focus feel and no manual-focus override of AF. Its zoom range is very limiting. The Pentax DA 18-135mm is a far better lens in every respect. With its WR construction, you'd have no problem if you start to get a little rain when you are out shooting. To have a true WR camera, both the body and the lens must be so. With Canon, to get a WR body with a pro-style VF, you'd be looking around the $1,000 US price range, and for a WR lens likewise around another $1,000.

As to the Pentax DA 18-50mm, it is a very unique kit lens in that it can retract for storage into a very compact size. It is better than other kit lenses in that it is also of WR construction. It has a fast, quiet AF motor. Build quality, however, is not in the same league as the DA 18-135mm lens. In the video you've presented, notice the FL used was mostly in the middle of the kit lens's zoom range, which would be at its best. This is true for most zoom lenses. So if you have a lens that can provide good to excellent results over its entire range, that is very desirable. That is true of the DA 18-135mm, especially pertaining to the central area of the image. And because of its wider zoom range, there will be a greater ability to frame your shots. It is also very good for quality closeup imaging.

A typical kit zoom lens at 50 or 55mm will have a maximum aperture capability of f/5.6 which is less than desirable for portraiture or other closeup work. The DA 18-135mm can stay at f/4.5 (smaller the number, the larger the aperture) which is better for blurring the background to make the subject standout more. Since it can still deliver f/4.5 all the way out to 70mm, the longer FL will blur the background even more.

[Des]

I am really torn between Pentax k-70 and Canon 200D as the canon kit lenses are really good. (Can get Canon 200D with 18-55mm and full frame 50mm prime for £519)

The cheap Canon combination would be false economy. The K-70 is a much much better camera and can serve you well as your skills and experience develop.

The response by @Mikesbike nails it. I'd just underline a couple of his points because the significance of them might not be obvious to someone new to DSLRs.

When you read a lot of camera reviews, you go crosseyed after a while with all the features referred to. In day-to-day use, for the long haul, a lot of them don't matter much or at all. If you ask most of us who have used a DSLR for a while, they will tell you what is important in everyday use. A big bright viewfinder really matters. So does ready access to the controls for shutter speed, aperture and ISO. The Pentax system of bright full viewfinders and dual control wheels (three on high end models) is just wonderful. These are features cleverly designed by engineers who understand photography, not something driven by marketers or bean-counters. (With all due respect to marketers or bean counters.) By default you control the shutter speed with the dial placed for your right index finger and the aperture by the dial placed for your right thumb. It works beautifully.

Pentax has two unique modes that let you take maximum advantage of this. One is HyperProgram that @Mikesbike mentioned. Every camera on the market has a P (Program) function. But with Pentax you can just override the default settings. So, for example, if you are in P mode and the camera says the correct exposure is 1/125th second, f5.6 ISO 400, you can just override one or two of those settings and the camera will respond. Want a faster shutter? Turn the front dial so that it reads 1/250th and the camera will adjust the aperture and/or ISO. Want a shallower depth of field? Turn the rear dial to f4 and the camera will adjust the other settings.

The other unique mode is TAv. That means you set the shutter speed and aperture and the camera sets the ISO, within a band you specify. It's kind of semi-manual. It's probably the mode I use the most - particularly for wildlife, with a zoom lens, where you are constantly trading off between the variables.

WR is a big plus too - dare I say it? - especially if you live in the UK.

As for the lenses, the 18-50 is effectively £100 if you buy it bundled with the camera at Jessops. But I'd still say the DA 18-135 at effectively £260 is a much better buy. It will do everything the 18-50 can do (except fold up very small) but a lot more besides. I'd suggest using the 18-135 for some time before working out what your next lens purchase should be. (If you want a 50mm prime without spending a lot, there's a wealth of choice in Pentax.) With the 18-50, you'd be very soon looking for a longer/faster lens, and once you got that lens you probably wouldn't use the 18-50 much.

Here are some shots to illustrate how versatile and capable the 18-135 is.

[mikesbike]

Great shots, Des!! You make me even more delighted in having my DA 18-135mm! I've had mine for numerous years, used on several bodies. I have other more expensive lens alternatives, but none as versatile, yet so satisfying in what it can deliver. It is a great tool to have in the tool box. I invariably reach for it when needing to carry a single lens that can do a lot, and do it well. The capabilities of this lens could not be better illustrated!

---------- Post added 12-24-18 at 05:33 PM ----------

- K-70 with kit 18mm-135mm or -> highly recommend!

if you even get good copy of the len too!

That is another thing. Compared with other lenses, the DA 18-135mm seems to have an unusually good record. There can be a defect with any lens of any brand. But I've seen fewer complaints of such problems regarding the DA 18-135mm compared to other lenses, actually quite rare, even though it is rightfully a very popular choice and many copies are sold. I've seen this occasionally regarding the DA 16-85mm as well as others, but the DA 18-135mm's record of dependability seems nearly as good as that of the Pentax Limited series.

[Dan Neeton]

You have convinced me, even though I know you are all biased lol. Jessops are doing he 35mm prime for £95 anygood or should I pay the extra and get the 50mm for 129? Want it for family pics

[BigMackCam]

You have convinced me, even though I know you are all biased lol. Jessops are doing he 35mm prime for £95 anygood or should I pay the extra and get the 50mm for 129? Want it for family pics

I'd say the DA35 f/2.4 is the better choice for your purposes. On an APS-C camera, it will give a very similar field of view to a classic 50mm lens on a 35mm film camera. It's a versatile field of view that suits most day-to-day shooting.