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01-03-2020, 05:48 PM - 1 Like   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tonytee Quote
Man, is my face red. I took several photos with the Takumar F 70~200mm lens and the speck and the debris show up in the images. I'm practically speechless since I cleaned the sensor three

times. Is it possible I may have in some way damaged the sensor while cleaning it ? I will give it another go at cleaning and see what transpires. I will go ahead and upload the images for everyone's scrutiny.

TT
No need for a red face, Tony - most of us have been there, done that at some point

That's one of the great things about forums such as these (and PF in particular) - help is usually available if you ask for it

The good news is, you now know that the dust / debris is, in fact, on the sensor and not in your lens. Progress, right?

I don't know what method you used to clean your sensor... but I will say, they're somewhat hardier than many folks might have you believe; yet, not indestructible - so it's always worth taking care and using suitable products. Here's the method I use for cleaning my own sensors. I get consistently good results now that I'm well-practised, and I've yet to do any damage:
How do you clean a really dirty sensor? - PentaxForums.com



Last edited by BigMackCam; 01-03-2020 at 05:58 PM.
01-03-2020, 05:53 PM - 1 Like   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by swanlefitte Quote
If the sensor is dirty the whole inside is too. So it is easy to clean the sensor only to knock the dust around the sensor on to it. I clean the box with a brush several times before I work on the sensor.
Whilst there's some truth to there being - most likely - dust and/or debris elsewhere in the mirror box, a good blast with a rocket blower is usually more than enough to dislodge anything that could migrate to the sensor later. That's the method I use, and it has worked consistently for me...
01-03-2020, 06:01 PM   #33
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Well, after another thorough cleaning of the sensor and the lens, I took two more shots.

#1 image, you can see the hair in the clouds in the upper right and to the left on the wall, there are new specks.

#2 image, no hair in the clouds, yet the specks remain in the same position.

My theory is: This lens is so filthy internally that it is dumping debris onto the sensor when being used. I took great pains to ensure that no dust entered the camera while cleaning. The debris

that first entered the lens became embedded in the sensor that it took four tries to remove it.

I am thinking that now I need to get a clean sheet of copy paper, hold the rear element over the paper and tap it gently to see if there is any fall out or drop off. Troublesome, but interesting

that the lens has accumulated so much debris internally that it is now shedding like a long haired cat. Will report back on my findings.

Thnx again, Tony
01-03-2020, 06:03 PM   #34
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Numbers 1 and 2 images.

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01-03-2020, 06:05 PM   #35
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Number two, no hair.

---------- Post added 01-03-20 at 06:07 PM ----------

I did these in the wrong order. Number 1 is actually the second shot and number two is the first shot. So the image with the hair is the second shot.

tt

---------- Post added 01-03-20 at 06:24 PM ----------

After using low impact with the lens, there was a boatload of debris fall out. Interesting that the debris is not dust, but black particles with a hard texture as in sand. I wonder if a part is deteriorating

and therefore shedding. Well, thank goodness the sensor is in tact. The only issue now is do I continue with low impact or donate the lens? I like the images it generates, however I am not

about to spend a ton of money on it as I am certain it would run up to approximately $100.00 or more. My sincere thanks for everyone's assistance.

Cheers and Happy New Year.

Tonytee

---------- Post added 01-03-20 at 06:40 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Whilst there's some truth to there being - most likely - dust and/or debris elsewhere in the mirror box, a good blast with a rocket blower is usually more than enough to dislodge anything that could migrate to the sensor later. That's the method I use, and it has worked consistently for me...

So it is not a good idea to use a Microfiber cloth on the sensor? I have been doing just that for a long time, however if you do not recommend it, I will discontinue the

practice. Thnx again,

TT
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01-03-2020, 07:03 PM - 1 Like   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tonytee Quote
So it is not a good idea to use a Microfiber cloth on the sensor?
I choked on my tea reading this. I don't know maybe it is OK to use a microfiber cloth. But I most definitely would not. They make special soft cleaning stick for cleaning the sensor. Search on "sensor wet clean".

Just a suggestion but I think you would get a better idea of what dust is still on your sensor if you shot something completely blank, such as a white piece of paper or a clear blue sky. With the shots you are taking you see some but probably not all of the dust because of the texture.

It is possible that the flocking on the inside of the lens is decaying enough to be falling out. I've never personally seen that but it seems the most logical explanation if you are getting stuff out of that lens.
01-03-2020, 07:05 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Hi Tony

It's not that I need more proof... I'm attempting (poorly, perhaps) to explain that any debris on the sensor - anywhere within the image frame, corners or otherwise (and, therefore, including the speck over the jar) - will be clearly visible at a small aperture such as f/22, but much, much less visible (if at all) at a wider aperture such as f/8. As such, for the comparison of images from two different lenses to have any meaning at all in this test, the photos from each need to be taken at the same small aperture (such as f/22). If one or the other is at a different, wider aperture like f/8 (as in your third image), you're not comparing like for like. Both must be taken at the same small aperture to conclusively prove if this is dust on the sensor.

I hope that makes sense, and my apologies if it seems that I'm being difficult... My motive is only to ensure a controlled test that gives you the information you need to conclude whether or not the debris is on your sensor, or in your lens

No need to apologize friend. It is that I may be a little irritable after chasing this issue for two days. However, I see your point and that is: What you are looking at is not what

you always see. This a great example. I could do this as a magic act in Las Vegas, Nevada. Now you see it, now you don't. Thanks again. Tonytee

---------- Post added 01-03-20 at 07:19 PM ----------

Here is an article I thought I would share with everyone.

"I remember my first time wet cleaning the 10d. This was well before youtube but there was a lot of internet information. I was nervous with all the warnings and rumors of others that had scratched their sensor but got the spatula, pec pads and high grade methanol in a kit that I still use today. It's really nothing to be scared of. The sensor has a glass cover that while it can be scratched, is difficult. The best thing to help prevent is to use a bulb blower to blow dust off that may contain minerals that can scratch glass. What remains is typically organics that stick to the sensor, things like pollen or micro dispersions of kitchen cooking oil. Methanol is good at removing organics and is why it's the preferred sensor solvent. Also, with advancement of camera's shaking sensor clean, sensors don't get as dirty as they use too. I don't have to clean anywhere near the frequency as the old 10d. In any regards, while I understand the fear, don't sweat it and swab that sensor."

tonytee.

---------- Post added 01-03-20 at 07:30 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I choked on my tea reading this. I don't know maybe it is OK to use a microfiber cloth. But I most definitely would not. They make special soft cleaning stick for cleaning the sensor. Search on "sensor wet clean".

Just a suggestion but I think you would get a better idea of what dust is still on your sensor if you shot something completely blank, such as a white piece of paper or a clear blue sky. With the shots you are taking you see some but probably not all of the dust because of the texture.

It is possible that the flocking on the inside of the lens is decaying enough to be falling out. I've never personally seen that but it seems the most logical explanation if you are getting stuff out of that lens.


Yes, I believe you are correct. Dust apparently fell through along with the dark particles, which is a clear indication that the lens is also loaded with dust. Thanks for your

information and feedback as they are quite helpful.

TT
01-04-2020, 12:13 AM   #38
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Greetings again,

After all that tapping to get more fall out hoping that would be the end of it, no such luck. I mean this lens is loaded with crap. Please take a look at the hair like structures, even on the jar and the

black specks that are seemingly everywhere. Thanks for viewing. TT

P.S. The reason for the high ISO is because I bounced the flash off of the ceiling.

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Last edited by Tonytee; 01-04-2020 at 12:16 AM. Reason: Additional Information.
01-04-2020, 01:58 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tonytee Quote
My theory is: This lens is so filthy internally that it is dumping debris onto the sensor when being used.
It can't get by the rear element to pollute the camera. I assume that you've at least cleaned the exterior of the rear element and mount.

The strange thing is that big stuff like hair usually blows right off. Please don't take this as an insult, but are you sure you've been cleaning the sensor and not the shutter screen or the mirror?
01-04-2020, 10:11 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by rogerstg Quote
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It can't get by the rear element to pollute the camera. I assume that you've at least cleaned the exterior of the rear element and mount.

The strange thing is that big stuff like hair usually blows right off. Please don't take this as an insult, but are you sure you've been cleaning the sensor and not the shutter screen or the mirror?

No offense taken here I can assure you. Yes, the mirror lock up works and so I was able to use my blower on the sensor and around the box. I once again tried tapping more

debris out of the lens and although were some artifacts including hair like structures, it appears as though this is the end of it. I took a few more pictures with the lens on the

K-7 and at various F/stops, there was no tell tale signs of debris in the photos. Thanks very much for your feedback.

TT
01-21-2020, 12:23 AM   #41
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Well unfortunately, my problems with this lens and the crap it emits into the K-7 persist. Only this time, it is really serious. Yesterday we finally got a break in the inclement weather so my wife and

I went outdoors to get some air and take a few photographs. Me with my K-7 and the infamous Pentax-FA 80~320mm Lens. After only a few shots, I could not help but notice some debris in the

images. I was not too concerned as I thought as the last time, a few good blasts with the blower and a good cleaning, the sensor should be back in shape. Wishful thinking, I'm afraid. Using a

different lens, (duh) I was dumbfounded to discover more hair like structures and black, spots in the images. After two days of this nonsense, I deduced that the camera is now loaded with the

garbage that the telephoto lens had dumped into it. Now the hair like structures and other dust particles were no problem to remove, however it appears as though the flocking may just be

permanently affixed to the sensor. Short of finding a device to scrape it off, I do not know what else to do. I will post a couple of images to illustrate my situation. Thnx for reading and for any

helpful hints and suggestions. Tonytee. )

---------- Post added 01-21-20 at 12:31 AM ----------

My only thought now would be to continue firing off the camera (with a different lens of course) until all of the debris lodged inside is out. The only alternative would be to have it professionally

cleaned. Caveat Emptor. Thanks. Tony

If you look real close as I did with a magnifying glass, you will see that the debris is all over the image.
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Last edited by Tonytee; 01-21-2020 at 12:32 AM.
01-22-2020, 10:07 AM   #42
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To clean the sensor, after blowing dust with something else, you will need sensor cleaning swabs, sized to the sensor (APS-C in case of K7). For example, this : amazon.com : APS-C Frame (CCD/CMOS) Digital Camera Sensor Cleaning Swab Type 2 Cleaning Kit (Box of 12 X 16mm Swab + 15ml Sensor Cleaner) : Camera & Photo?tag=pentaxforums-20&

Even if it is not absolutely needed, I highly recommend a specialized magnifying glass for sensor cleaning, like this one : amazon.com : Camera Sensor Cleaning Kit, Micnova MQ-7X DSLR Clean SLR Sensor Loupe with Six Dust Illuminating Bright LED&?tag=pentaxforums-20's for All Cameras Canon EOS T6 Nikon D3300 D3400 Sony A9 Panasonic Camcorders : Camera & Photo

With fully charged battery, turn on camera and navigate to the menu to clean the sensor. It will lift up the mirror, allowing you to clean the sensor. Turning the camera off will drop the mirror again (running out of battery also will, that's why you need a fully charged battery for extra safety).


With the magnifying glass light on, you will clearly see all the dust on your sensor. Use the swab to "paint" the sensor once, or twice, then ditch it (to avoid damaging the sensor with dust glued to the swab). Remember that the sensor is upside down ; if you find something on the bottom of the sensor, it will show on the top of the picture.

Sometimes it is not possible to remove everything, so push the remaining debris to the top to the sensor (dust on the bottom of picture is much less likely to be a problem than on top, e.g. sky).

About the lens, I have no recommendation. Maybe the sensor cleaning will be more than enough.

Last edited by Bertrand3000; 01-22-2020 at 10:21 AM.
01-22-2020, 02:52 PM   #43
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I haven't seen it mentioned yet, but when you use a rocket blower to clean the innards of the camera, be sure to hold the camera upside down (or rather: mount facing down, screen facing up), so that anything the air does move on the sensor can fall out out the camera housing with the help of gravity - otherwise you would just be moving the stuff around on the sensor from one side to the other.

Touching the sensor with a microfibre cloth is not the greatest idea, you may have introduced more particles and hairs onto the sensor by that than you removed. Microfibre doesn't mean it's lint-free, and even then I'd be worried about scratching the sensor with the cloth itself (rather unlinkely) or just a dust particle that is still on the sensor or even in the cloth itself.

Then the K-7 should have a dust removal feature that you can activate in the menus, it shakes the sensor a little and that should also shake off a bit of what might be on it.
01-22-2020, 03:10 PM - 1 Like   #44
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Well thank you very much for the input. I finally decided to activate the shutter without a lens (while holding the body upside down) and fired off 122 snaps. This seemed to do the trick as I noticed

in the images that the sensor was absolutely dust and flocking free. You can bet your bottom dollar that the culprit lens will never be on the camera again. I greatly appreciate everyone's concerns

interests. Sincerely, Tonytee. )
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