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03-06-2020, 12:30 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by StiffLegged Quote
Well, I’d like to drive a Ferrari but haven’t the least chance of affording one. Obviously I should steal one. Same logic as software piracy.

Take a look at how many people Adobe employ. Do you think they should work for free? Grad student wages ain’t that tough. And $120 US per year is not much, frankly. Try buying a house or apartment for that, paying to run a car or keep a family and you’ll have a better comparison. Photoshop has been, and is, in constant development for 30 years, and it shows. And you get Lightroom too, and the latest tools, the newest refinements, the latest gear supported including the K-new when it eventually arrives all for that 120 annually. Chickenfeed!

Disclaimer: I use Photoshop CS4 on a permanent licence. If I had newer kit than my K-7, I’d pay the Adobe tax and enjoy these refinements. Until then, it’ll do: 18 years development still shows in the capabilities and ui.
I completely understand the need for people to make a living. I think Adobe has come up with a model that is very profitable and enables them to pay their employees.

But I also know I get equal or better capabilities out of GIMP and RawTherapee, which are created mostly by hobbyists in their spare time and distributed for free. In a free market economy $120 isn't going to beat $0 unless the capabilities are a lot better, and (at least for me) Lightroom isn't even as good as RawTherapee.

---------- Post added 03-06-20 at 02:35 PM ----------

And what was one of the drivers of the free/open source model? Business practices of companies like Microsoft, who (for one example) gave away Internet Explorer which almost immediately bankrupted former market leader Netscape. Then without any real competition, Internet Explorer went years and years with no upgrades whatsoever. The only way to compete with free was to make a better free product, like Firefox or Opera. So I have little sympathy for large companies who have no qualms using their monopoly or near-monopoly power to drive others out of business, and then cry foul when people find ways around their business model.

Piracy and stealing software... that's wrong, I won't do it. But free and open source? Absolutely, all day, every day.

03-06-2020, 12:41 PM   #77
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I don’t know RawTherapee and haven’t used Gimp, so couldn’t make a comparison, but understand the open-source model for software (Firefox user.) If they fit your bill, great! No-one is compelled to use, or buy, one or another piece of software. That’s the market for you. I’m hugely impressed by Photoshop and like it. That will do for me.

Last edited by StiffLegged; 03-06-2020 at 12:50 PM.
03-06-2020, 01:00 PM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by StiffLegged Quote
Well, I’d like to drive a Ferrari but haven’t the least chance of affording one. Obviously I should steal one. Same logic as software piracy.
No, it's not. Like, really, *really* not. For a thousand reasons, but if this is the idea you have, there is no discussion to be had.

Also, if you honestly think that the problem with being a grad student (at least in Europe) is the wage, then oh boy are you wrong.

As I said, my main problem is Adobe and similar monolithic companies, not with people making an honest living (and that includes people that work for similar monolithic companies); I have not pirated any software in more than a decade (unless it is some stuff that I own that actually runs better when cracked ) - if it's too expensive for what it is I don't bother.
03-06-2020, 01:13 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
...if it's too expensive for what it is I don't bother.
That is an honest approach, and in complete contrast to the pirates. Good on you!

03-06-2020, 01:21 PM - 1 Like   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
No, it's not. Like, really, *really* not. For a thousand reasons, but if this is the idea you have, there is no discussion to be had.

Also, if you honestly think that the problem with being a grad student (at least in Europe) is the wage, then oh boy are you wrong.

As I said, my main problem is Adobe and similar monolithic companies, not with people making an honest living (and that includes people that work for similar monolithic companies); I have not pirated any software in more than a decade (unless it is some stuff that I own that actually runs better when cracked ) - if it's too expensive for what it is I don't bother.
The "steal a Ferrari" false narrative is the kind of quasi-logic that leads the big record companies to claim that they are losing $100s of billions a year to piracy. People (mostly) didn't use Napster because they liked stealing music, they did it because there was no legal way to buy the songs they wanted at a reasonable price. $20 for Britney Spears' whole album with the one track you wanted wasn't reasonable.

The choices you were presented in 2000 were a) be a little dishonest and use Napster, b) pay a lot of cash for 12 songs on a CD when you often just wanted one of them, or d) just don't listen to music.

Today most people happily pay for streaming and downloading services and even vinyl. Because they see the value in the purchase.
03-06-2020, 02:10 PM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
The "steal a Ferrari" false narrative is the kind of quasi-logic that leads the big record companies to claim that they are losing $100s of billions a year to piracy. People (mostly) didn't use Napster because they liked stealing music, they did it because there was no legal way to buy the songs they wanted at a reasonable price. $20 for Britney Spears' whole album with the one track you wanted wasn't reasonable.

The choices you were presented in 2000 were a) be a little dishonest and use Napster, b) pay a lot of cash for 12 songs on a CD when you often just wanted one of them, or d) just don't listen to music.

Today most people happily pay for streaming and downloading services and even vinyl. Because they see the value in the purchase.
Yep, an egregious example is the bunch of manga or anime for which there is no license in Europe... so one can either get a VPN to read the official US release (illegal) or one can read the illegal scan (illegal).
03-06-2020, 03:11 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
The choices you were presented in 2000 were a) be a little dishonest and use Napster, b) pay a lot of cash for 12 songs on a CD when you often just wanted one of them, or d) just don't listen to music.
I remember those days, and the days before them. You had your PC, you ran Windows on it, maybe MS-DOS, and you wanted Office, or PageMaker, or Lotus 123, but gosh they're terribly expensive. Your mate, or colleague, or relative uses the software at work and brings the disks home at the weekend so you can install on your own PC. Bingo, affordability solved and who reads the small print on the box or disk cover anyway? Licence agreement, phooey!


With the arrival of internet access for all this became easier and file sharing took off. Those brave pioneers at Napster mk.1 set up a terrific peer to peer system and suddenly the entire Beatles back catalogue, including those really rare tracks from the mid-60s, were yours to pick and mix from, or perhaps the Dead, or Buddy Holly (and he's dead anyway) or whatever! Remind me what happened to Napster? Oh yes, copyright infringement got them into court, from which they emerged in tatters. They facilitated stealing copyright material.


Of course lawyers will argue huge figures for their big clients, but the fact that Britney (so highbrow...) released music as collections of a dozen or so songs doesn't rank as a capital offence which destroys copyright. Yes, iTunes and the rest have established the per-track download model and we all like it, but have you noticed some artists still release tracks only available when you buy the whole album? Option (b) is alive and well online.

If the software, music, book, whatever is offered for sale in a particular form, bypassing that to get what you want for free is still theft. Now I must go, there's an officer at the door looking for a missing Ferrari.

03-06-2020, 04:03 PM   #83
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Eh, a lot of musicians I have seen live actually said on stage that they don't care about people buying CDs or listening to them on Spotify, they get nothing from it. They ask that we go to the concerts, festivals. That's what keeps them alive.
03-06-2020, 06:00 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tonytee Quote
The same. "Photos." Your point being?

tt
Well, that App is NOT WINDOWS PHOTO EDITOR 10 - it is Windows Photo.

You are conflating the issue by using the name of the wrong App. It is like complaining that Photoshop "doesn't work" while you are opening Affinity Photo.

The icon for Windows Photo is shown below. (Live tile disabled)

Check Message #61 for what you are giving the impression that you are using.

---------- Post added 03-06-20 at 05:31 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by slartibartfast01 Quote
Can't you uninstall Windows Photo Editor 10 from the Start menu as suggested earlier?
No, he can't as he is not trying to uninstall Windows Photo Editor 10. He is using WIndows Photos, the default viewer provided with Windows 10.

Yes, there are ways to remove the Photo App from Windows, but I think going there is going only frustrate him even more. No you can not right click on the icon and "uninstall" that is not how it works. The default Windows Apps:
Grove Music
Photos
Movies & TV
Calendar and Mail
Maps
Windows Store etc. etc. etc
Are baked into the OS (depending on whether you have Home --- bad idea --- or Pro --> better idea) and their removal can be facilitated by running Powershell scripts or using software such as "Revo Uninstaller" and others.

I agree that the use of the Photos App is a particularly bad idea. It is primitive, it is destructive (along with other JPEG only "editors") and way over simplified.

I thought he was conflating the separate Windows Photo Editor 10 App - available for download in the Microsoft Store - and the Photos App. As a default on most Windows systems the Photos App is used to display images so of course his "edited" images would show up there. The Photos App looks in the local Users "pictures" folder and displays the images. The user can add folders other than the default pictures folder (I have this since I export my edited images to a common folder so my old brain can remember where they are) and Photos will search through those images and display them. The editing functions built into the Photos App boarder on being a joke. Best avoided.

Last edited by PDL; 04-03-2020 at 03:44 PM.
03-06-2020, 09:53 PM   #85
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Okay, I was wrong in the "Windows Photo Editor 10" name for the Windows Photo app. With Windows Photo app., I have no problems with its editing capabilities. Sure, like everything else, there is certainly room for improvement. As stated some time back, the issues I have with this app., is that while editing images in it, it arbitrarily stops what I am working on and says, "Now saving your work." It never stops saving the work even after waiting approximately 15 minutes just to see how long it will take. The only way to stop it is to X out and then I find all of my work is lost and must start over again. Now, there is another issue and that is when I go to save the image, the app., again comes up with a different appearance, but same problem where it takes over and then says,
"Saving." This one also never ends and I must X out of it. There's more fun and games. I do like the editing capabilities in FastStones. When I am done editing in FastStones and after saving my work, I get out of Faststones and into Windows Photo app., to the image I had just edited in FastStones and at this point, I must cause the image in Windows photos app., to rotate in order to bring forward the editing work done in FastStones. Now sometimes FastStones does not bring forward the edited image no matter how many times I rotate the image in Windows Photos app.

The only way around that is to delete cookies and restart my computer. This is not always effective as I have had to delete cookies and restart the computer several times before the edited image comes forward and I have what I need. Now, back to Windows Photos app. Once the edited image comes forward from FastStones into Windows Photos app., the edited image in Windows Photos app., begins to rotate all on its own and all I can do is wait for this crazy thing to stop and then I have to make an editing change in Windows Photos app., and then save it so it will not go off on me and begin rotating again.

Now, boys and girls here comes the real fun. After everything looks good to go upon examination, I "download" ) the image into PF. The image comes up alright, however it is now inverted or upside down. Of course this means that after all this jumping through hoops that I thought was over, I now have to delete the image from PF and go back and find the problem. Much to my disappointment and surprise the image is upside down in FastStones. Which means I have to force a change and then save it again in FastStones and bring another edited copy forward into Windows Photo app. Which tells me that the upside image was downloaded from FastStones and not Windows Photos app. Are we having fun yet?

I have decided to go ahead and become as proficient in Affinity Photo as intellectually possible for me. The main gist is that I am not interested in doing any real sophisticated editing. All I need for my purposes is: Brighten, Darken,Contrast,Saturation, Hue, Sharpen, Cloning and Healing and on occasion, maybe a few other features.

Again, and I am very serious about this, I really, really hope that everyone will accept my deep appreciation for each and every contribution. At least I learned more about computers, software and especially a way to work around FastStones and Windows Photos app.

Cheers,

Tonytee :)

Last edited by Tonytee; 03-06-2020 at 10:01 PM.
03-06-2020, 11:26 PM - 1 Like   #86
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I don't know Windows 10, I'm still on Windows 7 until next week. However, did anyone in this thread mention that the problem you are/were having with Windows Photo Editor taking over for FastStone (notice no s on the end) that the reason Windows editor is doing that is because you're got it set to associate all jpgs to that app? If you don't want Windows editor to open and take over for FastStone, you need to change that in your Autoplay app.


Just saying, and if it has already been said, sorry for repeating this.
03-07-2020, 04:29 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by StiffLegged Quote
With the arrival of internet access for all this became easier and file sharing took off. Those brave pioneers at Napster mk.1 set up a terrific peer to peer system and suddenly the entire Beatles back catalogue, including those really rare tracks from the mid-60s, were yours to pick and mix from, or perhaps the Dead, or Buddy Holly (and he's dead anyway) or whatever!
What was the legal option if you wanted to listed to rare back-catalog Beatles songs? There wasn't any! You could go to a indy record store that had bootlegs of them, but that was illegal, too. You knew these tracks existed, but to make sure the estate of the Beatles was appropriately compensated for you listening to them, your legal and morally upright option was to just not listen to those songs.

I'm not suggesting that people steal music or software. But when the market fails people will find other ways.
03-07-2020, 06:05 AM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by photolady95 Quote
I don't know Windows 10, I'm still on Windows 7 until next week. However, did anyone in this thread mention that the problem you are/were having with Windows Photo Editor taking over for FastStone (notice no s on the end) that the reason Windows editor is doing that is because you're got it set to associate all jpgs to that app? If you don't want Windows editor to open and take over for FastStone, you need to change that in your Autoplay app.


Just saying, and if it has already been said, sorry for repeating this.

When I initially purchased the computer and printer, all of Windows Photo (not Photo Editor) was already set up. When I downloaded FastStone, it took over all of the files in Windows Photo. I had to pretty much navigate around the app., and figure out how to work most of it on my own. What I am saying is that I did not set up anything, all I did was to do my best to get things working together. Now I noticed (don't mean to go off topic) but when I change an image to an Affinity Photo file, Manage Attachments will not allow me to download the image here on PF. I receive the message, "Invalid File Number." I am thinking of attempting to download an Affinity Photo File into My Albums and then attempt to post the image here.

Many thanks, Mar. Cheers,

Tony
03-07-2020, 06:13 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
What was the legal option if you wanted to listed to rare back-catalog Beatles songs? There wasn't any! You could go to a indy record store that had bootlegs of them, but that was illegal, too. You knew these tracks existed, but to make sure the estate of the Beatles...
You’re breakin’ my heart. How dare anyone prevent you listening to whatever you want. Boo hoo hoooo.
03-07-2020, 06:19 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tonytee Quote
When I initially purchased the computer and printer, all of Windows Photo (not Photo Editor) was already set up. When I downloaded FastStone, it took over all of the files in Windows Photo. I had to pretty much navigate around the app., and figure out how to work most of it on my own. What I am saying is that I did not set up anything, all I did was to do my best to get things working together. Now I noticed (don't mean to go off topic) but when I change an image to an Affinity Photo file, Manage Attachments will not allow me to download the image here on PF. I receive the message, "Invalid File Number." I am thinking of attempting to download an Affinity Photo File into My Albums and then attempt to post the image here.



Many thanks, Mar. Cheers,



Tony
What type of file are you saving it as? It probably needs to be jpeg or similar to be uploaded to the forum

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