[monochrome]

My daughter and son-in-law just turned down my offer to give them my K-5lls, DA*16~50 and DA*50~135 because they think it is too complex, heavy, bulky and the video isn’t good enough. They plan to shoot travel snaps, landscapes and their new baby. They bought a Olympus OM-D E-M10 MARK III with 14~42 variable aperture lens for $600. They’ve never had an interchangeable lens camera before and decided if they want to pursue more formal photography they’ll invest in a dSLR - but to start, staying below $500 for a fully functional camera and basic lens was prudent.

You might consider something. Similar.

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Last edited by monochrome; 04-18-2020 at 08:52 PM.

[beachgardener]

any chance of him being a teacher?

Diesel Mechanic

[mikesbike]

But should I still be looking for a K5II instead?

The K-5 II and IIs have a few upgrades, including with the AF system being improved with some lenses. The IIs omits the AA filter for better fine detail in images. This filter's purpose essentially is to slightly smear out moire discoloration that may be present in some scenes. I have the IIs, after having the original for several years, and the upgrades were worthwhile.

None of the current Pentax models have AA filters, so they enjoy the benefit of superior fine detail when the camera is set up to an optimum standard. But they now also have a switch-on filter serving the same purpose in the event moire is present. I don't know any other brand having such a feature.

[photogem]

Your advice has been very helpful photogem. Since you have used the K5 series so much, can the K5 be used in some kind of automatic mode if my partner wants to use it?

Yes, there is the full AUTO mode, but much better is the P-mode:
It starts to work in Auto-mode but allows immediate change of parameter as well.

The P-Mode of the K7/5/3 and KP is a more advanced version than in the K30/50 etc.
It is also called Hyper-Program-Mode

Also, do you have small hands? how well does it work shooting photos through the live view?

My male hands are of normal size, XL I would say if I buy gloves. But I know of a few women with very small hands and short fingers who very very happy with the size of the K-S1.

So I am actually now leaning towards the K5 series. I think that I will be very happy as a beginner, also the little one isn’t expected until the fall so we will still just have a little baby for two more years. I will upgrade if needed then. I am also congratulating my reasonable side for not giving in and buying the newest shiniest on the market. It did take some effort convincing myself, thanks for the help.

Upgrade might be much more usefull in lenses instead of the camera, particular if you consider:

Some final advice needed. I do like the deal on the K5 body, it costs about 167usd, I gave a rounded price earlier. But should I still be looking for a K5II instead?

The K5II is that bit better in articial light and its AF is faster and more precise.
The K5II and s have the first f2,8 sensor! This was a magic step and is still the same with the K70/KP, the K-S2 was the first consumer-grade body to have it as well!
The K5IIs was the most advanced but you might not notice the difference for a longer time.

One last important difference between the K5 series and K30/50:
Shake reduction is better in the K5series: 4 f-steps (K5, 3 f-steps K30)
This means without shake reduction you can for example do a handheld of 1/80 sec.
1/60 will be no longer sharp
The shake reduction of the K30/50 allows you 1/40
The K5 allows you 1/30

I would for sure go for the K5II or K5IIs!

One last hint for ultrafast telephotos:

The SMC Pentax F135/2,8 is an amazing fast lens, one of the best lenses ever made by Pentax.
It is rare, but sometimes shows up on ebay from Japan, you can usually trust Japanese sellers (my experience), they have usually a high grade of honor!


This lens allows you photos inside without flash from a nice distance:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/SMC-Pentax-F-135mm-F2.8-Lens.html
I think the FA135/2,8 is optically identical.


Expensive maybe ... but one usually can sell it for the same price.
Not so the A-135 which anyway has no AF.

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Last edited by photogem; 04-18-2020 at 10:30 PM.

[mikesbike]

I want to use the camera often and don’t want size/weight stopping me from bringing it along. I have small hands anyway so a smaller camera is fine, my partner has tiny hands and I want a camera she can also use if she wants.

I disagree with those saying there is little meaningful difference in size and weight between the FF K-1, K-5 series, and K-3 series. For my purposes, even a 2oz. difference is noticeable. The K-3 II is noticeably weightier than the K-5 IIs. The KP and the K-70 are virtually the same weight. The K-70's design is bulkier, the KP is more svelte in the hand. I'm not sure how it comes packaged in Sweden, but in the US the KP comes with 3 different size right hand grips that are easily interchangeable, often for the convenience of handling with larger or smaller lenses, especially at times in between shots- a very unique feature on a very unique camera.

There is about 2 oz. difference between the KP and the heavier K-5 IIs, and yet more with the K-3 or K-3 II, which in turn are definitely lighter than a K1. In fact, if one adds the optional battery grip to the KP, which considerably increases gripping surface, battery life, and control options, with that added weight the KP will then be about equal the weight of the K-3 II without a battery grip and will pass it in battery life. This is a professional-style optional feature the K-70 does not and cannot offer. Perhaps that might become meaningful as time goes on. The flagship models all have battery grip options, that means battery grips dedicated to their design.

I have found my KP's AF to perform better, even with my screw-driven lenses- those having no AF motor of their own, but using the camera's AF drive system. There are many very fine, very sharp and useful lenses of this design, some very expensive, and others very inexpensive such as the DA 50mm f/1.8 having a large aperture to let in more light for low light hand-held shooting. (a smaller number indicates a larger aperture) There are numerous useful and meaningful advancements with the KP. The K-70 packaged with the DA 18-135mm is indeed an outstanding bargain. But sometimes if one's finances can handle it, the extra money is worth getting a superior product. Both the K-70 and certainly the KP are at the forefront in dealing with low light situations and/or fast action situations where ISO sensitivity will need to be raised to get adequate shutter speed, with their ability to produce imaging having comparably low noise ("grain"), while preserving detail. The K-5 series held this distinction for quite a long time, but these two models have pulled ahead substantially, the KP being tops in the APS-C field. Very Important. In addition to the KP's AF superiority, the camera's metering system for analyzing the lighting of a scene is superior. Better exposures.

There is also the matter of controls. The KP and certainly the K-5 IIs (same controls on all K-5 models), feature a far superior control set than does the K-70. More easily-accessible on-body dedicated controls, vs. going to menus. The KP has a new controls design, based on the type introduced on the expensive FF K-1. For me it is a toss-up between the KP controls and the K-5 controls, which have even more on-body availability, but not some of the the feature set which had not yet been developed.

[photogem]

But the K50 and K70 are lighter and have other upgrades. I am aware of the solenoid problem but it seems to be fixable so I would fix it myself if it happens! I want to use the camera often and don’t want size/weight stopping me from bringing it along. I have small hands anyway so a smaller camera is fine, my partner has tiny hands and I want a camera she can also use if she wants.

I forgot to answer this part, I also agree with a lot what Mikesbike wrote but have a slight different suggestion.

Maybe best to start with a K-S1. As you said, you feel confident to fix a stuck solenoid, so could even buy a K-S1 with faulty solenoid (they do show up) and right away set it alright the prober way, i.e. implant the Japan solenoid into it.

As your partners hands are tiny, the K-S1 is really the best for her!


Nothing is better than actually touching / holding a camera with lenses in real life.
Size/weight on the screen is different.

I felt the same as Mikesbike when I got my K3 and compared it to my K5IIs.
For a longer time I kept the K5IIs and sold it for the KP.

Allthough the KP might be right for you, it very well might not be right for your partner!

Another option:
Find two defunct Pentax bodies:
K30 or K50 (K500 is alright but can't take the PLM lens!)

and
K-S1

Find as well a defunct ist-DL, DL2, K100, K200, K110 as they have 2 Japansolenoids inside


Then you repair both and you have two great cameras, can switch lenses etc.

Both use the same batterie, charger etc.


I have both bodies here, the K-S1 is my travel camera when traveling light.
With the DA40 or DA21 very light, small enough to put into a pocket.

Fantastic camera for what it is!

And... scene modes which are better than automatic

[mikesbike]

My own choice when wanting to go with as light and small as possible, I bought a new K-S2, the predecessor of the K-70 after that model came out, when it was offered in a spectacular deal. I gave away my old lightweight- the K-r. It has a very similar articulating rear screen and controls as the K-70, except it is notably smaller and lighter while still having the advantage of both rear thumb and front finger controls to make instant adjustments, and also WR construction. These controls allow full operational access to the exclusive Pentax Hyper System, the fastest, most efficient such operating system ever devised. More on that later, but all models I have discussed have this excellent feature. The K-S2 with the smallest-ever comprehensive kit zoom lens, the little DA 18-50mm, can actually fit into a large jacket pocket- think of that- a full-featured DSLR with a zoom lens!

The KP is indeed a low-bulk design compared to other models of top-level construction, especially with its smallest grip installed, even less bulky than the K-70. But its quality of build is way above, and you can feel that quality when handling it. Configured in this form, it is the ideal personification of compactness with quality.

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Last edited by mikesbike; 04-20-2020 at 12:25 AM.

[photogem]

I have been in contact and asked, 30k. Not bad for someone that has had it for 10 years?

The price is too high!

[Fiaskemist]

Difficult! I thought that getting a K5II /s would be the best choice and was set on that but the cheapest ones on ebay are all 300-400usd body only. Have found a few cheaper but they have had high shutter counts. I don’t mind paying more for quality, that is why I want the K5II but there is still the new K70 with 18-55 WR for 480usd.

I don’t really mind the size difference any more, I don’t usually find things to be troublesome and can always buy the 18-50 DC lens later on for the K5II for travelling light.

I do want a better built camera that will last long and the quieter shutter on the K5 is attractive but a brand new K70 at that price makes deciding just that much more difficult.

I will keep you all updated which one gets to come home to me. Thanks for helping me this far!

[RICHARD L.]

[Alex645]

I don’t mind paying more for quality, that is why I want the K5II but there is still the new K70 with 18-55 WR for 480usd.

I do want a better built camera that will last long and the quieter shutter on the K5 is attractive but a brand new K70 at that price makes deciding just that much more difficult.

Although the K5II is an excellent camera, it was released in 2012 and the K70 which is still in production in 2016. If you look at the pros and cons, the K70 has more pros:
Pentax K-70 vs Pentax K-5 II Detailed Comparison

If 480usd is in your budget, I wouldn't hesitate to jump on that K70 deal.

[mikesbike]

Well, the K-70 plus the most useful DA 18-135mm packaged together is the best bargain going, as I have said. And I am usually more favorable to going for a new vs. a used camera. That comparison link is good, but also far from the whole story. A lot depends on priorities. I don't use wi-fi to download photos. I don't even have a smart phone. I use a card reader- inexpensive, fast, and reliable. Easy to use. Plug in and play.

Of the K-70 advantages, the most practical are the articulating screen, and for those with little background, the SCENE sub-modes. I like the articulating screen for times when I need it for shooting from odd positions. Good for selfies too. But in reality, I don't use that feature on my K-S2 very often.

The K-5, like the KP, is an advanced or pro-style design, including superior construction, which means of course, omitting such an amateur-oriented feature as the SCENE modes. By employing this feature, a number of typical scenes are offered by scrolling through the menus to select the type of scene being dealt with at a given time, where the lighting is tricky and the results are not being delivered by the camera's usual automatic exposure settings. Snowy scenes, beach scenes, an outdoor night scene of a person against a night time background using flash, etc.etc. etc. This can be convenient, and instructive- ONLY if one takes notice of what settings the camera has chosen for each particular scene that is different from the usual settings. But even then, there is no explanation as to why. Once one learns what to do and why, it is far faster and easier to use the camera's excellent set of controls to change settings yourself, than it is to switch to the SCENE modes, then scroll through and select an appropriate scene. Furthermore, you can do fine adjustments on your own very easily for even better results, if the first shot is not satisfactory. Explaining what to do and why for such situations is one thing we do regularly here.

As to the SD card, right now in my K-5 IIs I have a SanDisc Extreme Pro 32GB with a write speed of 95 MB/sec.- super fast. Extra-fast write speed is mainly important for burst shooting at fast fps, which I try to avoid unless really necessary. I am not fond of screening through scads of images of essentially the same shot to see which one to keep and which ones to discard. If I did more of that, it would no doubt be a 64GB card. But the K-5 IIs is "only"a 16MP sensor design, yet it is an outstanding sensor, and this version can deliver fine imaging with exceptional fine detail with high-performing lenses , when set up for optimum performance. The 16MP design delivers smaller file sizes compared to a 24MP design, requiring less room on the SD card which will hold more images. The K-5IIs also has a deeper buffer than a K-70 for burst shooting along with the smaller file size and thus greater image capacity. So many more shots can be taken before the buffer will fill up and the shooting needs to stop to clear the buffer.

I do like the articulating screen and certain feature advantages of my similar K-S2. But there is really no comparison with my K-5 IIs as a photographer's camera. Even with the further advancements of the K-70, for me, if I were offered a free trade of a brand new one for my now rather old K-5IIs, (which has a quite low shutter count and is in pristine condition) and I had to live with only one or the other, there is no way I would make that trade.

Take a good look at the two cameras' pictures on the above link. It can be revealing. Look at the rear of both cameras. First thing to notice- more controls on the K-5 and they are spaced out much better. The thumb rest is much better designed, while the tiny thumb rest of the K-70 is situated so it would be easy to accidentally hit one of the buttons clustered around the ok button. Much more secure and effective holding. Then notice the AF button, on the K-5 is usable at any time for AF focusing without shooting instead of using the shutter button half press. On the K-70 this button does double duty with the AE-L button (locks exposure, which can be very useful at times) while each function has its own button on the K-5 IIs. Surrounding the K-5 AF button is a rotational switch to select the AF points and their operation: the camera's auto-select of all points, user-select (of any point among all points), or center-point only for spot AF. With the K-70 you must go to menus to select the AF points options.

Now go to the camera tops pictured. right away the top LCD screen of the K-5 stands out. You don't have to keep tilting the camera forward to view the settings and make changes. Of course, along with the better control layout, this requires more room and thus a larger body. Look at he shutter button, around which is the on/off switch, which also entails another function. On the K-70, there is also the video switch. That is instead on the mode dial of the K-5, while that spot on the power switch is taken by an optical DOF preview through the VF, a feature that is rather awkward to access via a menus with the K-70. This means, after an aperture is selected, (varying apertures will vary the DOF of a shot as well as affecting the incoming light), one can actually look through the lens by looking through the VF to see what will be or will not be sharp in the background when using a certain aperture, and do this instantly with the fingertip control! Of course, it also means while viewing, the aperture will be closed down to the value set for the shot which will likely darken the preview, but you can still see the DOF you will get.

Now look over to the mode dial. Both are set to the green auto mode. The mode not to use unless handing the camera to someone not familiar with the camera temporarily, so they will not make a mistake and accidentally activate one of the controls. Most controls will be de-activated. This is for the camera to make all the decisions-period. First thing for you- change to the"P" mode for fully automatic exposure shooting, still fully automatic, but will allow all your controls to be accessible. Notice around the mode dial of the K-5 is a rotational switch (hard to see in this picture) to select your metering type- normal segmented metering of entire frame, center-weighted, or spot metering (the light meter will only read the lighting off a narrow spot on which you train it to get a reading). You will eventually learn how to do spot metering when called for by certain tricky lighting situations that would throw off the usual metering. A very, very useful feature. With the K-70, changing metering type is done via menus.

If there were a left-side view offered, you'd see an AF mode switch. On the K-5, the settings are for AF-S (Single-shot where the shutter will not fire unless focus is achieved), AF-C (Continuous AF sometimes best for moving subjects), and MF (Manual focus). On the K-70, apparently just AF or MF, with the AF type in menus. On the KP, there is a button where repeated pushing will change AF types. The KP shares some of the same weaknesses of control features as the K-70, but some buttons can be programmed to make up for that to some degree, nor does it have a top LCD. But there are new controls on top for new features that atone for such shortcomings. And to be fair, the menus shortcut screen accessed via the info button of both the KP and the K-70 is pretty decent as a substitute for on-body dedicated controls, just not quite as fast and efficient. But the top-side controls of the KP are very special, and for me worth the loss of the LCD screen and dealing with some button programing.

If I had to live with just one, I would in this case trade off my K-5 IIs (with some reluctance) for a new KP, as it has done a convincing job of offering new, useful controls and features, while achieving a more compact and lighter premium body design, along with outstanding imaging quality.

This is not to detract from the value of the K-70. It is an outstanding value. Just to put it in perspective, and of course I am not too favorable towards buying used, unless a premium-built model and in top condition.

[Alex645]

Mike has a lot of valid and good points for the K5II over the K70.

For me the main pros for the K70 vs. K5II:
a) 24MP vs. 21MP
b) Articulating screen
c) Higher ISO, lower light sensitivity
d) Pixel shift and no AA filter and astrotracer
e) Supports UHS memory cards
f) Lighter

I have no doubt the build quality of an older flagship is going to be better than a newer entry level, and the layout of the K5II is superior. I also would miss the better battery life on the K5II.

[normhead]

Don't forget the ability to use KAF4.
The majority of the new high quality lenses going forward will be KAF4

If you ever want the DA 55-300 PLM. DFA*50 1.4 or DFA*. 85 1.4 you pretty much have to go with the K70.

[mikesbike]

d) Pixel shift and no AA filter and astrotracer
e) Supports UHS memory cards

Yes, pixel shift can be nice, mainly for still scenes without wind factors- cityscapes and the like, on tripod, of course. There are definitely some advancements from 8 years ago, and the lack of AA filter is the reason I chose the K- IIs instead of the II. Norm brings up the KAF4 lenses, a good point regarding the PLM lens factor. Another advancement. But all of the latest lenses have not been KAF4, thank goodness, like the recent DFA 70-210mm f/4 and the excellent DA* 11-18mm f/2.8 premium lens. Most KAF4's in the schedule are of premium expense types, other than the 55-300mm PLM. I still use my older HD 55-300mm WR, which is still available new, as I am very happy with results I get from it. The KP has improved the AF performance of all my screw-driven lenses. The very fine Limited series of primes continues to be very traditional and conservative in design, still screw-driven- perhaps for maximum reliability. Even with these advancements, which are also found on the KP, now my most often-used camera, I still continue to value my K-5 IIs for its durable construction, fine image quality, and as an efficient tool of photography.

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