[Des]

I don't think any of the K-5 series has focus peaking. (For the OP, that means when you use focus in LiveView - via the screen rather than viewfinder - areas in focus are highlighted. It makes manual focusing and fine adjustments of focus much easier.) The combination of an articulating screen with focus peaking (as on the K-70) is really useful for landscapes and macro.

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Last edited by Des; 04-23-2020 at 02:39 PM. Reason: delete erroneous ref to K-30

[mikesbike]

Yes, focus peaking display can be of value, particularly in macro shots as done with a macro lens capable of very close work, where focusing becomes very critical. On a tripod of course, as the slightest movement can throw the focus off again in this type of photography. At the same time, for most needs, a top-notch VF is an essentially important aspect of having a DSLR, an advantage in fact over other picture-taking devices, and each of these camera models indeed does provide a top-level VF. Such quality in a VF available at the price point of the K-70 or certainly the price point of the K-S2, is virtually unheard of outside of Pentax. That was one of the upgrades that motivated me in buying the little K-S2 new at such a remarkable price, reduced after its replacement, the K-70 arrived, and then giving away my old K-r to good friends.

Practicing and learning to focus by eye using the VF is extremely important as a basic. Practicing manual focus using the VF will be essential in achieving the ability to keep an eye on the camera's result during autofocus, As we know, sometimes AF can and does grab onto something other than our intention! That can happen to the best of us in the haste of the moment.

[photogem]

I don't think any of the K-5 series has focus peaking. (For the OP, that means when you use focus in LiveView - via the screen rather than viewfinder - areas in focus are highlighted. It makes manual focusing and fine adjustments of focus much easier.)


I found it one of the big gains in going from the K-30 to the K-3

The K-30 has focus peaking as well!

[Fiaskemist]

I would honestly have been less confused without this thread, all the different opinions made my head spin, a spinning head makes sleeping hard and no sleep makes the head spin more. Also, I had been going through the different specs and comparison charts in my head and weighing pros and cons a few times too many.

No really though, it has been great reading everyone’s advice.
I have ordered a K5II now, I will use it, learn with it and if I feel like I am missing anything in a couple years I can then consider a KP (or K70).

Got one with a 6600 shutter count, it looks good on pictures, will let you know more when it arrives.

I was thinking about getting a DA 18-55 WR as a first lens, is it a good idea? I will probably not buy any more lenses any time soon so I will use just one for a while.

Regarding resources and tutorials on photography, I can look up myself but are there any books or sites that any one here recommends?

[Des]

The K-30 has focus peaking as well!

I am losing it. :-(

[Alex645]

I would honestly have been less confused without this thread, all the different opinions made my head spin, a spinning head makes sleeping hard and no sleep makes the head spin more.
I have ordered a K5II now, I will use it, learn with it and if I feel like I am missing anything in a couple years I can then consider a KP (or K70).
I was thinking about getting a DA 18-55 WR as a first lens, is it a good idea? I will probably not buy any more lenses any time soon so I will use just one for a while.
Regarding resources and tutorials on photography, I can look up myself but are there any books or sites that any one here recommends?

Congratulations on getting the K5II. For many it may be their last DSLR, but I think it's also a great first DSLR.

The DA 18-55mm WR is a logical first lens in terms of price, versatility, size/weight, and a good lens to grow from. I personally prefer wider angles, so if I had to live with one zoom lens, it would be the 16-85mm. Others that prefer more telephoto will go with the 18-135mm.

In terms of resources or tutorials, based on you feeling bombarded by all our similar but differing opinions, you may have just opened the second can of worms and this could be a whole new thread. With that said, I would recommend sticking to one author or one web site to avoid confusion. If you're a book person, I like most of John Hedgecoe's books. Just check the publication dates as his earlier books are more about film photography and not digital.

Also udemy.com has 51 free videos just on beginning photography with a DSLR. Just use the filters on the left to narrow down what to watch.
Online Courses - Anytime, Anywhere | Udemy

The Nikon School also has some free videos that can be very helpful: Nikon School Online - Free online courses for April

[photogem]

The DA 18-55WR has its values mainly being cheap and still good enough. But it won't really get the most out of the K5II!
The advantage (to some, if needed is the WR).


It very much depends what you need.

One lens which is very underestimated but needs to be in really good condition, i.e. not wobbly!

But it is a larger lens for a reason. I had some contact to a person who serviced Pentax for decades, knew all lenses inside out.
He brought me to this lens and I never regreted it. He told me that the construction is similar to the FA31/1,8 and the K28/f2,0, i.e. a floating design.
It was developed by one of the japanese master-engineers of Pentax, I forgot his name.. but I remember he applied for a patent for this lens because it was the first and only zoom using this floating element design (a design invented by Zeiss and applied in their Distagon T* lenses)

- 16mm are very nice wide-angle for landscapes, almost 15mm and with excellent optical quality
- very nice close-up abilities (28cm and what I measured 1:3 macro at 45mm)

I personally don't like the DA-18-50WR


Good zoom lenses you can find from Sigma, the Sigma 17-50/2,8 is supposed to be very good if it's a good sample, many like the 17-70 (17mm make a noticable difference to 18, and yet, 16mm are quite a bit more wide-angle).

The DA18-135WR is a very quiet zoom due to its DC Motor (as are Sigmas with the HSM motor). It has 1:4 Macro at 135mm but minimum focus distance is only 40mm.

The quiet but fast DC Motor can be an argument when you want to take photos of little ones, because they very quickly can react to the sound of the screw-drive mechanism. They hear the sound an change position.


My favourite Zoom is still the DA20-40 limited. It is DC, i.e. quiet, amazing built quality, almost as good as 3 prime built into one lens.
The forum test ranked it higher than the legendary FA31 (which I don't fully agree with) but you have the DA21/DA35/DA30 in one go but without the macro qualities of the DA35/2,8macro limited.

It very much depends on how much you can or are willing to spend.

If a DA20-40 is possible, you won't lose money with it!
A DA16-45, allthough a bit bulky, is almost as good and very cheap. But do consider the size and get only a really good sample.
I know a famous photographer who uses it with his K70 and KP and is thrilled, he never really considered it before.


A cheap and yet better lens than the Kit 18-55WR is the Sigma 18-50/2,8. But again, a bit larger.


Important to know if you buy a Sigma with inbuilt OS (antishake): The OS draws enery, i.e. the battery empties quicker! Even if the OS is switched off!!! That one must know.
Also you don't want to use the OS together with the Pentax antishake! One or the other!


Hope now your head is not spinning more...

This is the difficulty of receiving many well meant opinions.

And they are well meant!

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Last edited by photogem; 04-24-2020 at 09:03 PM.

[mikesbike]

I personally don't like the DA-18-50WR not at all.

Hmm. I had the DA 18-55mm II for years, same as the WR version. I thought it ok, but AF was not reliable. Then, the K-S2 package I bought came with the little DA-L 18-50mm DC WR for practically nothing extra- maybe $20. They basically threw it in to get the camera as a kit sold. It is a bit fiddly having to release the lens from its retracted position, bringing about numerous complaints, but I got used to it. AF is much, much better, and imaging is quite good for what it is. Build quality of either lens is nothing to brag about.

By far the most versatile and useful option in a quality lens at moderate cost for a fine DSLR body is the DA 18-135mm DC WR. Very good build, really fast and accurate AF, fine imaging, and can do justice to many photographic needs. Amazingly compact for its quality and zoom range.

Congrats on getting a K-5 II with a very low shutter count. Hopefully, the camera's condition will likewise be first-rate. When you get it, be sure to post its arrival for some setup tips, etc. I think you will be impressed as you handle it for the first time- it is obviously not a toy-like amateur-style camera!

[Fiaskemist]

Congratulations on getting the K5II. For many it may be their last DSLR, but I think it's also a great first DSLR.

The DA 18-55mm WR is a logical first lens in terms of price, versatility, size/weight, and a good lens to grow from. I personally prefer wider angles, so if I had to live with one zoom lens, it would be the 16-85mm. Others that prefer more telephoto will go with the 18-135mm.

In terms of resources or tutorials, based on you feeling bombarded by all our similar but differing opinions, you may have just opened the second can of worms and this could be a whole new thread.
...

Thank you and yes I am fully aware of the consequences of again asking so many people for help.

When you say wider, is it the shorter focal length you refer to? 18 compared to 16?

Yes I am a book person, prefer reading but nothing wrong with watching videos either. Seeing and hearing helps in learning.

The DA 18-55WR has its values mainly being cheap and still good enough. But it won't really get the most out of the K5II!
The advantage (to some, if needed is the WR).
...
...
Hope now your head is not spinning more...

This is the difficulty of receiving many well meant opinions.

And they are well meant!

Well, I don’t have any needs yet. I want a cheap lens and a WR one is a bonus. Since I’m just starting out, I can’t really find a reason to spend much on lenses. I know now that the lens as much as the camera makes the picture but I’ll be happy working with anything as long as it lets me learn the process. But I will make a note of the lenses you’ve mentioned for the future!

Why don’t you like the 18-50?

Like I wrote above I expect that people as usual will have different thoughts, but even with different thoughts most people aren’t so different from one another. In any case, I will be more prepared this time, I will have a helmet and a paper bag in case anything gets out of control.

Hmm. I had the DA 18-55mm II for years, same as the WR version. I thought it ok, but AF was not reliable. Then, the K-S2
...
Congrats on getting a K-5 II with a very low shutter count. Hopefully, the camera's condition will likewise be first-rate. When you get it, be sure to post its arrival for some setup tips, etc. I think you will be impressed as you handle it for the first time- it is obviously not a toy-like amateur-style camera!

Thank you, yes that is what I’m also hoping for.

I understand that neither the 18-55 and 18-50 are the best but I am looking for something small and less pricey. Like I wrote to photogem I don’t need the best but I do want something that can be used to learn with.


Can I ask, what would make the 18-50 a better choice and vice versa for the 18-55?
•18-50 has better/faster autozoom, but how bad is the AF on 18-55?
•I understand that the 18-50 has focus-by-ring, so it is not as good for manual focusing. How bad can this be?
•The 18-50 uses a DC AF motor while 18-55 is a screw drive AF lens so there is a big difference in sound level!

I know it isn’t the smartest move but I am liking the 18-50 DC a bit more at the moment.

[photogem]

First, there are two version of the 18-50DC and you must be very careful which one you get:
-DA-L 18-50
-DA 18-50
Quite a difference.
I found it flimsy, it is the very opposite to the built-quality of a K5II.
For the price you can actually find a DA16-45 which aside of size is far superior

The old Pentax screw-drive is always faster but louder then the external DC Motor!

To bring a DA 18-50 into action means you have to unlock it first. Moments when a ready for work lens has already focused.

The DA-L18-50 was the kit-lens for the K-S2 but not anymore for the K-70.

Either 18-50 is also larger in diameter than the DA18-55
If just one, than I'd say take the standard DA 18-55 WR and learn.
It is cheap an easier to handle.
The DA(L) 18-50 is terrible for your partner with small hands! For somebody with really small hands a nightmare imo.

Imo the 18-50 was a joke.

@mikesbike: You know as well as myself that there can be huge differences between the same lenses.


and as much as one might want to help: The only real learning is by starting to walk, fall, get up... start again... a thousand times...
and a thousand falls.... it's called process!

[Alex645]

When you say wider, is it the shorter focal length you refer to? 18 compared to 16?

•I understand that the 18-50 has focus-by-ring, so it is not as good for manual focusing. How bad can this be?
I know it isn’t the smartest move but I am liking the 18-50 DC a bit more at the moment.

Yes, shorter focal length=wider angle of view=16mm is wider than an 18mm. 18mm has become the standard with kit lenses, and there is nothing wrong with that. I just like my wider angles even wider, but there is a trade off in size and price.

From my experience with nearly all lenses with DC motors, they are more silent and focus faster....but as they are designed for AF, manually focusing them is unacceptable for me. The focusing ring is like drive-by-wire. For example, modern cars that drive-by-wire means when you turn the steering wheel, it doesn't turn a shaft that has a rack and pinion gear, that then turns the wheels with or without power (steering) assistance. Instead, it the steering wheel is more like a video game controller and sends a signal to an ECU that then sends a signal to an electric steering motor. They've improved this over the years so it feels almost 'real' to give you a feel of the road, but it's all AI science.

So when you twist the focus ring, there is no direct link to gears for focusing, but rather an ECU that then powers the focus motors to move the elements. No power, no focus. Lots of delay and I feel like I'm steering a boat.

If you've never driven

[mikesbike]

You know as well as myself that there can be huge differences between the same lenses.

Same optics except for the HD coatings, so already having the DA-L for nothing and finding performance to be better than expected, I just use it when I need its extra-compact carrying. But I was not recommending the DA-L for the OP, rather the better HD version, which also comes with a lens hood. WR is important regardless of which lens, since the camera body's excellent WR construction is not really WR unless it has a WR lens on it.

The DA 18-135mm DC WR is not an expensive lens. Its extra zoom range covers most of having both the DA 18-55mm combined with the 50-200mm, but with a far better build quality and far better AF performance, with the added convenience of less lens-changing. The difference between this lens and either of the basic kit lenses is huge. The missing 65mm reach compared with the still flimsily-built DA 50-200mm is not as meaningful as the numbers suggest when going into the telephoto range. Alternatively, the OP could eventually acquire the far better non-PLM HD 55-300mm WR lens for yet more telephoto range that would indeed provide a meaningful difference.

I would feel more confident, since the OP is starting out with the fine built-like-a-tank K-5 II, that combined with the very well-built, yet compact, and very widely capable for so many uses DA 18-135mm DC WR, this would provide the OP with the potential for a very satisfying experience in starting a journey into photography. This lens also has a proven record for exceptional AF performance on various bodies. I have used it on no less than six different bodies! I have found that though the K-5 II and K-5 IIs offer improved AF performance over the original K-5, after using this lens on both, that this lens proved to still maintain its excellent AF performance, even on the lesser original K-5!

The difference in cost between it and say the more expensive and bulkier DA 16-85mm could go towards another lens, such as the aforementioned 55-300mm or the inexpensive but very well-performing DA 50mm f/1.8, that with its large f/1.8 aperture capability would be able to reduce DOF to blur background for exceptionally good portraits, and also great for quality low-light work. There are truly exceptional lenses for pushing the envelope into the ultimate category, then we are talking about expensive. For example, with a need for greater aperture "speed" with ultimate quality, I often use my DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, or FA 77mm f/1.8 Limited, combined with the compact DA 20-40mm f/2.8-4 Limited. Expensive, but when the extra aperture speed combined with ultimate quality is needed, then it is needed. But even so, I still do not hesitate to put my DA 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 DC WR into service when I need its versatility and compactness. It is that good.

The wide-ranging 18-135mm availability will afford the capability to gain experience in the use of many focal lengths to find out which angles-of-view come most often within the interests of the learning photographer, and thus where to go for additional lenses in further pursuit of these interests. For example, if interests develop mostly in the wide angle category, one option would be the excellent Sigma 10-20mm f/3.5 EX DC HSM. Capable of spectacular wide angle shots, unlike zoom lenses that include both a wide angle and a telephoto range, it can provide a 16mm or 18mm setting with near-vanishing linear distortion, along with superb image quality. Very well built and well-designed, but no WR, and not expensive for such a nice lens. If wanting WR and even more aperture, then we are again talking expensive- the DA* 11-18mm f/2.8 DC WR at around 3x the price! Being able to use different lenses for different applications is one of the main advantages of having interchangeable-lens systems.

[photogem]

The WR of the DA18-50 is more or less useless
The DA18-50 can be terribly wobbly.
It doesn't balance the K5II well, to me it is like putting a flimsy toy lens onto such a sturdy well built body.

WR is not that important for lenses, much more for the camera itself.
One must not forget, WR is not water-proof

Yes, shorter focal length=wider angle of view=16mm is wider than an 18mm. 18mm has become the standard with kit lenses, and there is nothing wrong with that. I just like my wider angles even wider, but there is a trade off in size and price.

From my experience with nearly all lenses with DC motors, they are more silent and focus faster....but as they are designed for AF, manually focusing them is unacceptable for me. The focusing ring is like drive-by-wire. For example, modern cars that drive-by-wire means when you turn the steering wheel, it doesn't turn a shaft that has a rack and pinion gear, that then turns the wheels with or without power (steering) assistance. Instead, it the steering wheel is more like a video game controller and sends a signal to an ECU that then sends a signal to an electric steering motor. They've improved this over the years so it feels almost 'real' to give you a feel of the road, but it's all AI science.

So when you twist the focus ring, there is no direct link to gears for focusing, but rather an ECU that then powers the focus motors to move the elements. No power, no focus. Lots of delay and I feel like I'm steering a boat.

For this reason I'd throw the DA16-45 back in. It focuses as fast as the DC-driven DA18-45, in a way even faster, because the time needed to unlock the DA18-50 can be pretty annoying.

The DA16-45 has advantages:
- better from 18-45mm than both, DA 18-55WR and DA18-50WR/DC and particular less distortion at 18mm (and as well better in this region than the DA18-135)

- very nice bokeh + works well full open
- 1:3 macro !!!
- very well working quickshift
balances the K5II better than DA18-55WR and way bette than DA18-50!

but after all, the DA18-135WR has advantages and if the TO just starts with one lens, the question to me would be:
"What do I need more:

- Landscape and thus Ultrawideangle of 16mm plus sensible macro

or
- normal range from 18mm upwards but short tele up to 135mm plus the quite and yet fast DC Motor
I would not for a second even consider the flimsy bad built DA18-50. Not even if going really light with a K-S1.
The DA16-45 just does everything better plus UWW + 1:3 macro

[Des]

The DA16-45 has advantages:...1:3 macro !!!

The PF specs (SMC Pentax-DA 16-45mm F4 Reviews - DA Zoom Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database) say its maximum magnification is 0.26x? Still pretty useful for pseudo-macro but more like 1:4 than 1:3 and about the same as the 18-135 (max of 0.24x).

FWIW, I agree with @Mikesbike that, as a single lens to start out with, the 18-135 might be the better choice. For most people the extra reach (coverage in the 46mm-135mm range) would be much more useful than the extra 2mm width (16mm v 18mm). You can do a lot with the telephoto coverage on the 18-135.

[mikesbike]

Great shots, Des! Yes, and 18mm is still certainly wide angle, while 16 mm is simply somewhat wider. Even 24mm on APS-C provides basic wide angle.

WR is not that important for lenses, much more for the camera itself.

I have to say, it is misleading to have someone believe that having WR in the body is effective while not having a WR lens on it. That might work but far less likely. There'd be no WR seal where the lens meets the camera body, or anywhere else on the lens. We've had this discussion many times. And no one is saying anything about being water-proof! WR is weather resistant against light rain or perhaps a splash, but WR is not WP. Nothing is guaranteed 100%, but having a WR lens on the body is far more protective, all else being essentially equal, than having a lens with no seals. I have not seen any testing or experience that the WR of the DA18-50mm is any less effective than the other two WR kit lenses. After I got the DA-L version, I gave away the less-performing DA 18-55mm lens I'd had for years.

There certainly are numerous excellent lenses without WR, like the superb Pentax Limited prime lenses, but my view is having a very useful, all-around quality lens featuring WR is definitely of importance.

---------- Post added 04-24-20 at 12:47 AM ----------

It doesn't balance the K5II well, to me it is like putting a flimsy toy lens onto such a sturdy well built body.

I agree. That goes for all the mentioned kit lenses, and one of the reasons I recommend the DA 18-135mm. I still have the DA 50-200mm, which I might use on the K-S2 in a pinch for the sake of smallness to accompany the DA-L 18-50mm, but I've never used any of the kit lenses on my K-5 IIs. A total mis-match.