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07-11-2020, 10:26 AM   #1
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What's wrong with my front element?

I was taking pictures with the intent of listing my SMC DA 35 Ltd. Macro for sale, when I noticed that there seems to be some fogging or haze on the front element that I hadn't noticed before. There seems to be no impact on image quality that I can see. Any idea what is going on here?

Although purchase second-hand, I have babied this lens like I do the rest of my gear, always pull out the hood in use so I won't touch the glass, have only cleaned it with a blower. And it supposedly has super-protect on it. So I can't imagine this is abrasion from cleaning or something.

The first two links show the problem around the outside of the element. Kind of a bubbly haze. It's only visible in the right light, and it is visible if you look through the lens from the back (it looks bubbly there too). No picture of that though...





Just to show it's hard to see from the wrong angle...



Any ideas? If I do go forward with listing this lens, I'll be basing my condition discount on your collective diagnosis unless, by some good turn of fate, this is somehow normal.

Thanks in advance.

07-11-2020, 11:12 AM   #2
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SO, you're saying it's on the inside or outside?

If on the inside take the back cover off and put it in front of hairdryer for 20 minutes, to me it looks like condensation, and having had several lenses that found their way Into water, that's what I suspect. The hair dryer will heat up the inside of the lens and get rid of the moisture temporarily, but it may come back when cooled. You may be looking at a much longer time to get rid of it completely. You want to have a longer lasting, less hot heat source and fan for eradication.
07-11-2020, 11:44 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sir Nameless Quote
I was taking pictures with the intent of listing my SMC DA 35 Ltd. Macro for sale, when I noticed that there seems to be some fogging or haze on the front element that I hadn't noticed before. Any idea what is going on here?
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
If on the inside take the back cover off and put it in front of hairdryer for 20 minutes, to me it looks like condensation, and having had several lenses that found their way Into water, that's what I suspect.
For your sake, I hope Norm is right and it's only water condensation. If what he suggests doesn't work, I believe it's either fungus or more likely, delamination between the first two elements in the front group.

The main reason I do not believe it's fogging/condensation is the uneven pattern and how it has different densities of fungus or separation of the adhesive.

SMC Pentax-DA 35mm F2.8 Limited Macro Lens Photo - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database
07-11-2020, 12:26 PM - 1 Like   #4
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Looking at the lens diagram, the front elements are not cemented. So this is probably just some condensation marks or light haze. it's probably an easy clean if the front elements are indeed accessible simply by unscrewing the plastic front.

07-11-2020, 12:31 PM   #5
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I have seen this in some of my lenses. Sometimes almost imperceptible and other times quite obvious. I'm sure it is not fungus growth, which I also had to deal with in the past. Fungus growth is like irregular branches, while in this cases tiny spots distributed on a circular path.

My worst case was with a Tokina ATX 400mm 5.6. Images from the lens were foggy, with very low contrast. In all cases the haze seems to come from the inner surfaces so trying to clean front or rear of the lens was useless. I never tried to fix the problem with a professional service, this kind of service is almost nonexistent in my country or very expensive, and sending the lens abroad is very complicated and costly.

After some search and think I came to the conclusion that this is some form of degradation in the cement between elements. In the case of the 400, the lens was inside a car parked under the sun for a few hours before I noticed the problem. I've always thought that the heat affected (melted?) the cement in some way.

This is all speculation from my part but with support on some research and logic. Would like to know what others think.
07-11-2020, 12:52 PM   #6
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Water condensation. Probably disappears when lens is warmer or humidity is lower. Recondenses when lens gets cold or humidity is greater. Continual evaporation and condensing cycles lead to deposits of micro dust which provide fungal growth environment.

Suggest drying lens in sealed box surrounded by fresh Silica Gel packets for a week.

Remember to seal a cold lens against moisture condensation before moving into warmer environment.
07-11-2020, 12:56 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by marcusBMG Quote
Looking at the lens diagram, the front elements are not cemented. So this is probably just some condensation marks or light haze. it's probably an easy clean if the front elements are indeed accessible simply by unscrewing the plastic front.
Fully agree with this comment.

Almost certainly not separation. I think the elements in the front are accessible but not completely sure. The newer lenses have elements glued together (I think the rear ones for sure, maybe the front group too).

07-11-2020, 01:19 PM - 1 Like   #8
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That is residue from water condensation possibly with contribution from volatilized lubricant.


Steve
07-11-2020, 03:24 PM   #9
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I have something similar in a sigma 28mm lens. In my case it is inside of a sealed lens group so I am sure it is not water. Maybe be some kind of separation or failed coatings.
07-11-2020, 03:58 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
SO, you're saying it's on the inside or outside?
Definitely inside.


QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
That is residue from water condensation possibly with contribution from volatilized lubricant.
I think I'm leaning towards this assessment. It doesn't look wet like actual condensation would, but does look like things left behind by dried water. Assuming it can't be separation or delamination as some of you have said (I have no reason to doubt that either). The lens hasn't been through anything recently (like large temp/humidity changes, used in the rain, a dip in the lake) that would have caused water ingress. Just normal seasonal changes (I don't have A/C).

I'll try one of the suggested drying methods mentioned above since I suppose it can't hurt.

I'm guessing it will need disassembly for cleaning, something I'd have to send it out for (not willing to risk complete destruction by DIY). I'm also guessing that would be in the $200 range??

Thanks everyone for you help.

Last edited by Sir Nameless; 07-11-2020 at 04:07 PM. Reason: Forgot my manners.
07-11-2020, 04:07 PM - 1 Like   #11
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This isn't something that you can really get too wrong with a gentle hand. Use a rubber tool to unscrew the front and then you'll get an idea of whether the front element can be removed and cleaned. If it works, you've saved yourself the service cost. If not, then it's still fine.

In fact you could probably sell for 70-80% of the normal used value and buy a used replacement if you're really fussed about it.
07-12-2020, 05:51 AM - 1 Like   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by HarisF1 Quote
This isn't something that you can really get too wrong with a gentle hand. Use a rubber tool to unscrew the front and then you'll get an idea of whether the front element can be removed and cleaned.
I would use a rubber tool to get to the front element. Use a micro fiber cloth with some alcohol to see if it comes off.
If you want to send it out, you could try Vermont Camera Works (close to you in Pittsford, Vt.). Jim's prices are fair and he does good work.
I wouldn't try using a hot hair dryer for 20 minutes as that may get some oil to seep onto the aperture blades.
07-12-2020, 06:02 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by HarisF1 Quote
This isn't something that you can really get too wrong with a gentle hand. Use a rubber tool to unscrew the front and then you'll get an idea of whether the front element can be removed and cleaned. If it works, you've saved yourself the service cost. If not, then it's still fine.

In fact you could probably sell for 70-80% of the normal used value and buy a used replacement if you're really fussed about it.
Not terribly fussed except that I had planned to sell it. If I am too chicken to take it apart, I may just keep it and enjoy it...


QuoteOriginally posted by blumoon722 Quote
I would use a rubber tool to get to the front element. Use a micro fiber cloth with some alcohol to see if it comes off.
If you want to send it out, you could try Vermont Camera Works (close to you in Pittsford, Vt.). Jim's prices are fair and he does good work.
I wouldn't try using a hot hair dryer for 20 minutes as that may get some oil to seep onto the aperture blades.
Thanks for the tip and referral. Maybe I'll try it.

That rubber tool you guys are talking about, is it a rubber strap wrench (I've used very large ones to grip and unthread pipe fittings) or a rubber grippy jar opener type thing, or something else?
07-12-2020, 06:28 AM - 1 Like   #14
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I have this set...works great.
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07-12-2020, 07:19 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by blumoon722 Quote
I have this set...works great.
Where does one purchase such a set and what are they called?


Steve
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