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07-27-2020, 01:56 PM - 1 Like   #1
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Possible software issue with brand new K70, or Tamron adaptall faulty connection

Hi.
Purchased a new K70 recently and experiencing some software issues. Pehaps someone who has this camera or who has experienced something similar can shed some light on this.
I am using legacy lenses on it in Manual mode. When I place my Tamron 90mm f/2.5 on the camera, I set the focal length on the screen to 85mm (closest available). Set the aperture ring to, say, f/5.6, focus on something, the viewfinder is bright. I press the Green button, it suggests a shutter speed. I take a picture, it is roughly correct exposure. I press the Playback or View button, and the image appears on the screen.
Now I place my Tamron 70-210 f/3.5 on the camera. I set the focal length on the screen to 200mm. Immediately there is a clunk. The mirror has gone up and come down. I focus on something and take a meter by pressing the Green button. I take an image. I press the Playback button and there is another clunk as the mirror gets raised and drops again. The image shows on the screen. When I press the Playback button again to go back to the standard info display on the screen, the mirror goes off again. Every time I press the Playback button, the mirror gets activated. Also, when I take an exposure, there is a double clunk.

Second issue. Quite often when I operate the Live View button, it comes on, then a second or two later goes back to main screen info. Occasionally, it goes back to main screen info and then back to Live View. It flicks between the two. Another time the Live View comes on and stays on without a problem.
There appears to an issue with the workings of this camera.
Have a just bought a lemon or are these simple issues that can easily be sorted?

Thanks for your input.
Joats

07-27-2020, 03:52 PM   #2
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Welcome to the Pentax Forums!

I don't have a K-70 at hand, but am pretty sure that your first problem is probably normal operation. Were you in Live View? If so, the K-70 closes the shutter and lowers the mirror prior to doing exposures or going to playback. Likewise, the mirror is raised and shutter opened when returning to live view.

Your second problem is less easy and may be indication of a defect. Assuming no buttons are being pushed, the camera should stay in playback until the camera goes asleep.


Steve
07-27-2020, 03:53 PM   #3
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This sounds like bad/dirty contact(s) on the Tamron Adaptall adaptor ... I'm assuming you're using the P/KA adaptor, not one of the earlier adaptors with no contacts.
Looking at the adaptor mounted on the lens, counting clockwise from the locking pin recess, there's three widely spaced electrical contacts, then a small black insulator, then a very small locating pin, slightly recessed. This pin is often/usually sealed with some kind of adhesive or varnish. Unfortunately it also corresponds to the seventh contact on the auto-focus mount. It's this varnish/sealant that needs to be scraped off so the camera can figure out what, if anything is mounted. Whilst you're at it, give the other contacts a quick clean/polish, they can be prone to slight tarnishing.
Alternatively, and/or to prove the concept, you could try putting the apparently good mount from your 90mm onto the zoom lens and see if the problem is cured.

Hope this helps

Last edited by kypfer; 07-27-2020 at 03:56 PM. Reason: Afterthought
07-27-2020, 05:41 PM   #4
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Hi
Thanks for the replies.
Adaptall is for old film lenses without electrical connections. Just the iris/aperture lever sticks through into the camera body.

No, I was not in Live View. I have a feeling the camera doesn't know what to do with manual lenses in Manual mode. Even though there is no electrical connection at all, in M mode you can set the aperture on the lens aperture ring and press the Green button. That appears to stop the lens down momentarily to the setting you have chosen, and gives you a shutter speed suggestion which is usually about right. There is something about the Tamron 70-210 f/3.5 lens with its Adaptall on the back that sends the camera loopy. Firstly, it triggers the mirror when the camera is switched on...after....the sensor shake. It shows 200mm on the screen for chosen focal length. I then notice if you look through the viewfinder and stop the lens down using the aperture ring on the lens, the viewfinder gets progressively darker, so the camera is causing the aperture to close prior to exposure. That shouldn't happen. What should happen in M mode with a Manual lens is that regardless of what aperture you set on the lens aperture ring, the viewfinder stays bright because the lens remains fully open. Then you press the green button, the camera shuts the iris down momentarily to estimate the shutter speed you will require. When the exposure is taken, the camera exposes at the shutter speed it estimates and closes the iris down to your setting during the exposure only. On this K70, this lens and adaptall trigger the mirror prior to exposure, where it goes up and comes back down again. The green button still works, and you can take your exposure, but the camera appears to do either two clunky mirror lifts, or shuts it down only to lift it up to take the exposure. Interestingly, this issue does not happen with my older Kx. I fired it up and it worked fine with the 70-210 lens. Only this K70 has an issue. I also tried a few old film era Pentax lenses in M mode and they seem to be OK, although I do get the issue of Live View (when I go in it) switching itself off straight away, or going back to the info screen and then clicking back on again. This can happen with any manual lens in M mode. I have charged the battery to eliminate poor power delivery, so that is not the issue. There is something about using old non-electrical contact lenses in M mode on this K70 that causes it to behave erratically. The two issues are seperate but suggest an electrical or software problem. One issue is the 70-210 lens causing mirror trigger and faulty aperture control, the other issue is an issue with Live View with any manual lens, when it just switches itself off, and sometimes back on again, and other times it works OK.


Joats

07-27-2020, 07:07 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Joats Quote
I have a feeling the camera doesn't know what to do with manual lenses in Manual mode.
That does not fit your description of symptoms.

QuoteOriginally posted by Joats Quote
Even though there is no electrical connection at all, in M mode you can set the aperture on the lens aperture ring and press the Green button. That appears to stop the lens down momentarily to the setting you have chosen, and gives you a shutter speed suggestion which is usually about right.
That is what you would expect.

QuoteOriginally posted by Joats Quote
Firstly, it triggers the mirror when the camera is switched on...after....the sensor shake. It shows 200mm on the screen for chosen focal length. I then notice if you look through the viewfinder and stop the lens down using the aperture ring on the lens, the viewfinder gets progressively darker, so the camera is causing the aperture to close prior to exposure. That shouldn't happen. What should happen in M mode with a Manual lens is that regardless of what aperture you set on the lens aperture ring, the viewfinder stays bright because the lens remains fully open. Then you press the green button, the camera shuts the iris down momentarily to estimate the shutter speed you will require. When the exposure is taken, the camera exposes at the shutter speed it estimates and closes the iris down to your setting during the exposure only.
Thanks for the more detailed description, including the behavior on start-up and the lens being stopped down. In regards to the unwanted mirror movement on startup, that should not be, though without having camera and lens/adapter in hand, I can't speculate. The general problem of the camera spontaneously going in and out of playback mode is indication of a serious fault. Given that the camera is new, you should contact the seller to request a replacement. A reputable dealer will replace out of their stock and cover shipping for both the replacement and the return.

In regards to the stop-down problem. Swap mounts between the 90mm macro and the 70-210 zoom to see if the problem follows the mount. When swapping, be double sure that the Adaptall mount is fully engaged with the lens (chrome button popped out and both tabs engaged).

Here are a few bullet points that might be helpful. You probably know them already:
  • The body "knows" only three things when a standard K mount lens is attached: 1) that a lens is mounted, 2) that it cannot control the aperture, and 3) that the lens is manual focus.
  • Before a K-mount lens is attached, it is stopped down by default and as it is rotated onto the mount on the camera, the lever on the rear engages the aperture coupler on the body such that the aperture is fully opened when the lens is fully and completely mounted.
  • The above point is only true if the lever engages the coupler (properly aligned and functional) and if the lens is fully mounted.
  • Adaptall lenses have an additional quirk in that if the adapter is not fully engaged to the lens, the lever on the back will have no effect.
  • None of the above points provide a full explanation why your camera is behaving strangely, except maybe why the lens is not open as it should be.
I hope the dealer is helpful and that you get a fully functional camera soon.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 07-27-2020 at 07:57 PM.
07-27-2020, 07:10 PM   #6
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Does the Adaptall mount have a painted area where it would touch the electrical contacts, or is it bare metal? If it is partially painted, and partially scraped off, that could cause the situation you describe. You need to have a bare metal surface against the contacts on a DSLR so the camera knows there's a lens there. Some people use a bit of metal foil for lenses they don't want to modify. I use a bit of emery cloth and just go down to bare metal (clean it before using, of course). It could also be a contaminant of some sort. Try cleaning it off with alcohol, maybe it will get better.

Also, make sure you've set the camera up correctly. See this article: How to Use Manual Lenses on Pentax DSLRs - Tutorial Videos | PentaxForums.com
07-28-2020, 12:17 AM   #7
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Is the live view behaviour replicated with a DA lens attached? I would try this to eliminate a camera fault.

07-30-2020, 07:48 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
That does not fit your description of symptoms.



That is what you would expect.



Thanks for the more detailed description, including the behavior on start-up and the lens being stopped down. In regards to the unwanted mirror movement on startup, that should not be, though without having camera and lens/adapter in hand, I can't speculate. The general problem of the camera spontaneously going in and out of playback mode is indication of a serious fault. Given that the camera is new, you should contact the seller to request a replacement. A reputable dealer will replace out of their stock and cover shipping for both the replacement and the return.

In regards to the stop-down problem. Swap mounts between the 90mm macro and the 70-210 zoom to see if the problem follows the mount. When swapping, be double sure that the Adaptall mount is fully engaged with the lens (chrome button popped out and both tabs engaged).

Here are a few bullet points that might be helpful. You probably know them already:
  • The body "knows" only three things when a standard K mount lens is attached: 1) that a lens is mounted, 2) that it cannot control the aperture, and 3) that the lens is manual focus.
  • Before a K-mount lens is attached, it is stopped down by default and as it is rotated onto the mount on the camera, the lever on the rear engages the aperture coupler on the body such that the aperture is fully opened when the lens is fully and completely mounted.
  • The above point is only true if the lever engages the coupler (properly aligned and functional) and if the lens is fully mounted.
  • Adaptall lenses have an additional quirk in that if the adapter is not fully engaged to the lens, the lever on the back will have no effect.
  • None of the above points provide a full explanation why your camera is behaving strangely, except maybe why the lens is not open as it should be.
I hope the dealer is helpful and that you get a fully functional camera soon.


Steve
Hi
Thanks for your explaination. I had kind-of worked out what the camera was doing, or rather, meant to be doing with a manual lens. It was similar to the procedure in my older Kx. Put the manual lens on, set aperture on the ring dial on the lens, focus, press Green button for shutter speed direction, take the picture. On this K70, it worked like that some of the time. With the Tamron 70-210 it didn't. One thing I didn't mention before was that I have three old film era Pentax K SMC lenses - a 50mm f1.7, a 28mm SMC, an SMC 35-105 f/3.5, and a couple of Russian M42 lenses with a Pentax K adapter ring. When this problem started, a friend who is more experienced suggested I place the 50mm f/1.7 on the camera and hold it against a window glass so it points at exactly the right spot, set the aperure, focus and press the green button. The results should be consistent providing the light didn't change outside. I also did this with the 35-105 at different focal lengths and apertures. The 50mm suggested 1/1000th for the f/5.6 setting. Pressing again it dropped to 1/250th and then again it came down to 1/60th. The 35-105 was also variable. The camera appeared to have trouble metering. On another day it was more consistent, then on another day it would have trouble again. I took the camera outside a tripod mounted it and focused on a brick wall. North facing and out of sunlight. Same issues, with non-consistent metering each time the green button was pressed. Turned the camera off, and back on again. Battery level was good. This time results were more consistent. Can't explain why it does it. Anyway, the dealer has picked the camera up and I am awaiting their response.
Are electrical issues a known issue with the K70? I seem to have been very unlucky with Pentax dSLRs. My original K100D Super developed a battery issue where it would only work with certain types of 1.5v AAs. my Kx which I still have, developed the same issue, but even worse. It won't come on at all unless I use fully charged Eneloops. I admit to losing faith in Pentax cameras.
We will see what happens.
Joats
07-30-2020, 07:56 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kozlok Quote
Does the Adaptall mount have a painted area where it would touch the electrical contacts, or is it bare metal? If it is partially painted, and partially scraped off, that could cause the situation you describe. You need to have a bare metal surface against the contacts on a DSLR so the camera knows there's a lens there. Some people use a bit of metal foil for lenses they don't want to modify. I use a bit of emery cloth and just go down to bare metal (clean it before using, of course). It could also be a contaminant of some sort. Try cleaning it off with alcohol, maybe it will get better.

Also, make sure you've set the camera up correctly. See this article: How to Use Manual Lenses on Pentax DSLRs - Tutorial Videos | PentaxForums.com
Hi. I have cleaned the surfaces on the adpaters and the back of the older Pentax lenses. If I fire up my old Kx. There are no issues at all. The same lenses fitted do not create an issue with the camera, and the Green button produces consistent shutter speeds.
Joats
07-30-2020, 09:38 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Joats Quote
My original K100D Super developed a battery issue where it would only work with certain types of 1.5v AAs.
My Kx which I still have, developed the same issue, but even worse. It won't come on at all unless I use fully charged Eneloops. I admit to losing faith in Pentax cameras.
Hope your problems with your K70 are getting solved, i.e. either repaired or you get a replacement.
About those similar problems with AA Batteries of your K100D and K-x:
Those are common problems and based on bad battery contacts.
First clean the contacts well but you might also want to bend the contacts on the battery-door slightly upwards so the contact is tighter.
07-31-2020, 08:00 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by photogem Quote
Hope your problems with your K70 are getting solved, i.e. either repaired or you get a replacement.
About those similar problems with AA Batteries of your K100D and K-x:
Those are common problems and based on bad battery contacts.
First clean the contacts well but you might also want to bend the contacts on the battery-door slightly upwards so the contact is tighter.
Not sure its a poor contact issue. Why would the camera work with Eneloops (that are less than 1.5v) and no other AA battery? This was an issue that came up ten years ago with the 100D cameras, and continued with the Kx. The issue, if I remember correctly, had to do with the battery chemistry. Pentax then released an update which it claimed would fix the issue for some, but not all cameras. My Kx has the latest firmware when I bought it, and still had a problem. First it worked with standard Duracells, then after a while it would show a Battery Depleted sign, even with new batteries. Then I was recommended Energizer Ultimate Lithium. These worked, for a while, then I got the same Battery Depleted sign. Someone said Eneloops were the only way. I have had two sets of those and they have always worked, although even here, they don't work for very long, you have to keep them charged fully. With four Energizer Ultimate Lithiums, the camera now won't even come on. I have cleaned the contacts several times to no avail.
Joats
07-31-2020, 08:27 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Joats Quote
Not sure its a poor contact issue. Why would the camera work with Eneloops (that are less than 1.5v) and no other AA battery? This was an issue that came up ten years ago with the 100D cameras, and continued with the Kx. The issue, if I remember correctly, had to do with the battery chemistry. Pentax then released an update which it claimed would fix the issue for some, but not all cameras. My Kx has the latest firmware when I bought it, and still had a problem. First it worked with standard Duracells, then after a while it would show a Battery Depleted sign, even with new batteries. Then I was recommended Energizer Ultimate Lithium. These worked, for a while, then I got the same Battery Depleted sign. Someone said Eneloops were the only way. I have had two sets of those and they have always worked, although even here, they don't work for very long, you have to keep them charged fully. With four Energizer Ultimate Lithiums, the camera now won't even come on. I have cleaned the contacts several times to no avail.
Joats
Soooo...Are you going to send your camera back? It is apparent that your problems are not addressable by the usual suggestions or diagnosis steps used by helpers on this site.


Steve
07-31-2020, 08:39 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Soooo...Are you going to send your camera back? It is apparent that your problems are not addressable by the usual suggestions or diagnosis steps used by helpers on this site.


Steve
Yes the camera was picked up by the retailer.
07-31-2020, 08:41 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Joats Quote
Yes the camera was picked up by the retailer.
Yay! I hope the replacement is trouble-free!


Steve
08-01-2020, 01:48 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Joats Quote
Not sure its a poor contact issue. Why would the camera work with Eneloops (that are less than 1.5v) and no other AA battery? This was an issue that came up ten years ago with the 100D cameras, and continued with the Kx. The issue, if I remember correctly, had to do with the battery chemistry. Pentax then released an update which it claimed would fix the issue for some, but not all cameras. My Kx has the latest firmware when I bought it, and still had a problem. First it worked with standard Duracells, then after a while it would show a Battery Depleted sign, even with new batteries. Then I was recommended Energizer Ultimate Lithium. These worked, for a while, then I got the same Battery Depleted sign. Someone said Eneloops were the only way. I have had two sets of those and they have always worked, although even here, they don't work for very long, you have to keep them charged fully. With four Energizer Ultimate Lithiums, the camera now won't even come on. I have cleaned the contacts several times to no avail.
Joats
Both problems are common:
1. contact (which you checked)
2. Quality off AA batteries:

Here you need to make sure that:
- latest firmware 1.03
- change in menu from AUTO to LI-ION!

Eneloop Pro are a good idea, because they have that extra capacity. They do discharge with 3% compared to the 1% of the standard Eneloops.
This means after 14 month of not being used the Pro-version has reached the same capacity of the standard version, not bad at all and thus worth to be considered. The extra capacity is worth it I find. But all good rechargeables need for sure a really good charger, the cheap Panasonics are not really the best.
2nd difference is how long they last: Standard 1000 chargings, the Pro's 500 chargings.
Means that if you charge once a month, the Pros last 41 years, the standard version 82 years.
Says it all!


Anyway, I stop this theme because actually it would belong into a different thread which you could start if necessary!

Hope your K70 problems will be solved, it is a nice body.
If it ever would experience the "dark-image-syndrom", then study:
Tutorial/Repair Pentax K-70 with aperture-problem: Exchange solenoid - PentaxForums.com
It is less likely with the K70 as Ricoh did work at the solenoid which is the only culprit if that very problem happens, if you want to know more about it:
A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY: Development of the solenoid in Pentax cameras - PentaxForums.com
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