[photogem]

It is their opinion. Unless something has changed, evidence is lacking for the failed repair claim. As such, there is also no forensic evidence for the cause. Steve

There is enough evidence for a lot of failed repairs all over the world.
I have come across quite a few and now the first one of a K-70.


Forensic evidence? Isn't that used for crime?

HERE you take as evidence just about what is written on a webside of a single person offering (pretty bad) solenoid modification:
"The good folk at PC35 PhotoLab (pentaxcamerarepair.com) claim multiple affected models including several that presumably have the white-clad solenoid though at lower frequency of requested repair."

I.e. no evidence at all but just some advertising.
I am sure that PC35 PhotoLab never ever had to repair any Pentax with a Japan-Solenoid.

Evidence is, that the only solenoid which ever failed is the China-Solenoid.

And every Japan-Solenoid which replaced the China-Solenoid worked and never failed.

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Last edited by photogem; 09-21-2020 at 05:55 AM.

[SharkyCA]

Is this really the case?

That "all official Pentax repair places cannot offer ...white Japan-Solenoid ... again the green China-solenoid"?

Because am actually considering getting a K-70 for a 2nd cam body.

But if this really is the case, then it is most disappointing and definitely making me think hard whether should get a K-70.

Hi Termy, I have a K-70 that failed just after warranty ran out, I was very impressed with the camera before hand and I willingly paid to have it repaired,
My suggestion is go for the extra warranty, you will not be dissapointed with the cameras ability!

Cheers

[termy]

thanks for the candid sharing, Sharky and everyone.

All things considered (and that's quite a number of factors), it will seem that it does not quite make sense to go for a K-70.

1) Ricoh will use back that same flawed part when users send in the K-70 for repairs. This alone makes it kind of pointless.

2) I am not a technically minded person and thus, not likely to be able to self-replace it. Which means, going to Ricoh and knowing they will use back that same flawed part.

3) no doubting the capability of the K-70. But point number-1 above, negates this.

4) where i am, dont think there is option of extended warranty.
But even if there is, point no.1 above makes it somewhat pointless.
How many years of extended warranty could one keep getting anyway.

5) it might be so that incidents of K-70 having that "black death" syndrome is much lesser than the other K-x0s, but maybe that's because K-70 still relatively new.
But i am hearing more incidents of K-70 having this problem.

6) so, it will either be a KP or wait for the K New (but then, the issue of lack of flip screen comes up, but no, i have seen the heated debate on this and will therefore not say much, other than, i belong to the camp that still thinks Ricoh's explanation of it, doesnt have much substance behind it, if at all any. Yes we accept that the K new will be fixed screen, but no, dont buy the explanation, not when too many other aspects of the whole K New thing doesn't quite gel with the reason/s given [to me, at least]).

Will think it through.

[photogem]

Allthough a different matter with the KP and thus a different thread:
I had the K3 and K3II and enjoyed the larger 3.2" screen. As I have repaired 2 x K3's because of LCD failure (something rare) and had the back and its screen open, I know that such a 3.2" screen cannot be used for a tilt- or flipscreen yet, it is a different type of screen alltogether. One cannot have both.

For the K70: too bad you can't find anybody in your country to repair it.

[erikro]

Yes, too bad.
I can repair it with a white solinoid, but I live in Denmark.
Proberly too expensive in shipping.

[stevebrot]

thanks for the candid sharing, Sharky and everyone.

All things considered (and that's quite a number of factors), it will seem that it does not quite make sense to go for a K-70.

1) Ricoh will use back that same flawed part when users send in the K-70 for repairs. This alone makes it kind of pointless.

2) I am not a technically minded person and thus, not likely to be able to self-replace it. Which means, going to Ricoh and knowing they will use back that same flawed part.

3) no doubting the capability of the K-70. But point number-1 above, negates this.

4) where i am, dont think there is option of extended warranty.
But even if there is, point no.1 above makes it somewhat pointless.
How many years of extended warranty could one keep getting anyway.

5) it might be so that incidents of K-70 having that "black death" syndrome is much lesser than the other K-x0s, but maybe that's because K-70 still relatively new.
But i am hearing more incidents of K-70 having this problem.

6) so, it will either be a KP or wait for the K New (but then, the issue of lack of flip screen comes up, but no, i have seen the heated debate on this and will therefore not say much, other than, i belong to the camp that still thinks Ricoh's explanation of it, doesnt have much substance behind it, if at all any. Yes we accept that the K new will be fixed screen, but no, dont buy the explanation, not when too many other aspects of the whole K New thing doesn't quite gel with the reason/s given [to me, at least]).

Will think it through.

Your choice...something to consider might be that the overall three-year failure rate for dSLR cameras (all brands) has historically been in the 3-5% range* and that the reported problems with the K-70 (probably Pentax's most popular model in its four year run) on this site are pretty rare**, it may be that you are being overly cautious. That said, if you have the extra cash to put into a KP or a lot more to put into a K-new, those might be a better choice overall, but only if the feature set is a better fit. One can buy two K-70 for the expected price of the K-new.


Steve

* Based on Consumer Reports survey results while they still published the percentage figures.

** A search of the K-70 and Troubleshooting sections of this site is pretty eye-opening. If don't think there have been more than about 30 needing replacement/service in the last four years. I suggest changing the sort order to thread start date descending to get an idea of incidence over time.

[reh321]

thanks for the candid sharing, Sharky and everyone.

All things considered (and that's quite a number of factors), it will seem that it does not quite make sense to go for a K-70.

1) Ricoh will use back that same flawed part when users send in the K-70 for repairs. This alone makes it kind of pointless.
than pursuing the outside possibility of aperture control failure
2) I am not a technically minded person and thus, not likely to be able to self-replace it. Which means, going to Ricoh and knowing they will use back that same flawed part.

3) no doubting the capability of the K-70. But point number-1 above, negates this.

4) where i am, dont think there is option of extended warranty.
But even if there is, point no.1 above makes it somewhat pointless.
How many years of extended warranty could one keep getting anyway.

5) it might be so that incidents of K-70 having that "black death" syndrome is much lesser than the other K-x0s, but maybe that's because K-70 still relatively new.
But i am hearing more incidents of K-70 having this problem.

6) so, it will either be a KP or wait for the K New (but then, the issue of lack of flip screen comes up, but no, i have seen the heated debate on this and will therefore not say much, other than, i belong to the camp that still thinks Ricoh's explanation of it, doesnt have much substance behind it, if at all any. Yes we accept that the K new will be fixed screen, but no, dont buy the explanation, not when too many other aspects of the whole K New thing doesn't quite gel with the reason/s given [to me, at least]).

Will think it through.

I did think it through, and I purchased a KP during "Black Friday" 2018 sales; I am certainly not regretting it.

One factor which you should consider is the failure rate of the K-70's aperture control. stevebrot and I disagree over what that rate is - I think it is higher than he does. At current prices I cannot recommend a K-70 instead of a KP, and when problems were recently reported with a K-70 it was the first thing I thought of even though he said another possibility made more sense "than pursuing the outside possibility of aperture control failure". However, while a person might expect to send a K-30 in for repair every few years, I believe that aperture control of the K-70 has reached the point where it will fail sufficiently seldom that you may not have to send in a particular unit for that particular repair more than once in a reasonable lifetime {it is still a consumer-grade product, so I would expect less than ten years to pass before all the pieces need replacement under normal consumer use}, and you always do have the option of using it with "F" or "FA" lenses which do provide both AF and aperture control at the lens - in fact, even though a KP is now my primary camera, I did get a FA 28-105mm, so I can continue to use my now five-year-old K-30 on occasion {silver lens on blue camera in my signature photo}.

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Last edited by reh321; 09-21-2020 at 12:01 PM.

[revelstoked]

It always strikes me as an absolute epic fail for Pentax to have let this problem persist for so long. How many more lenses might Pentax have sold if they had not made multiple generations of affordable and otherwise excellent bodies that instantly make all of their excellent modern glass totally useless while still keeping the camera perfectly useable with second hand, or other manufacturers glass? How much lens revenue was lost on this? Madness.

[PocketPixels]

It always strikes me as an absolute epic fail for Pentax to have let this problem persist for so long. How many more lenses might Pentax have sold if they had not made multiple generations of affordable and otherwise excellent bodies that instantly make all of their excellent modern glass totally useless while still keeping the camera perfectly useable with second hand, or other manufacturers glass? How much lens revenue was lost on this? Madness.

100% agree. Also, it can't possibly be that expensive to make better solenoids. This isn't a rare-earth mineral, a complex alloy, or a 16nm node process microchip. It's a solenoid. Pinball machines from the 1980s had dozens of solenoids. The idea that there is but one solenoid factory in all of China, that it makes shoddy products with failure rates of 3%, that nobody at Ricoh can refine the design, that nobody remains in Japan who can restart the manufacture of these electronic parts that were flawlessly produced 20 years ago? Pure nonsense.

I constantly have to find other manufacturers at work. This factory is backordered, that company raised its prices, tariffs in this country just went up, health quarantines have closed this supply chain for six weeks. I could get by for maybe a whole quarter telling my boss that we just had to tolerate excessive returns and warranty repairs due to a faulty part supplier. After that, my boss would be out of patience.

Ricoh/Pentax hasn't fixed this problem because they have decided not to. They calculated that the cost of warranty repairs was acceptable. They calculated that the cost of out-of-warranty repairs wasn't their problem. They calculated that nobody would sue. Until someone changes those cost calculations, it appears Ricoh is going to keep using terrible solenoids.

[MarkJerling]

This thread explains the history rather well: A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY: Development of the solenoid in Pentax cameras - PentaxForums.com

[reh321]

100% agree. Also, it can't possibly be that expensive to make better solenoids. This isn't a rare-earth mineral, a complex alloy, or a 16nm node process microchip. It's a solenoid. Pinball machines from the 1980s had dozens of solenoids. The idea that there is but one solenoid factory in all of China, that it makes shoddy products with failure rates of 3%, that nobody at Ricoh can refine the design, that nobody remains in Japan who can restart the manufacture of these electronic parts that were flawlessly produced 20 years ago? Pure nonsense.

I constantly have to find other manufacturers at work. This factory is backordered, that company raised its prices, tariffs in this country just went up, health quarantines have closed this supply chain for six weeks. I could get by for maybe a whole quarter telling my boss that we just had to tolerate excessive returns and warranty repairs due to a faulty part supplier. After that, my boss would be out of patience.

Ricoh/Pentax hasn't fixed this problem because they have decided not to. They calculated that the cost of warranty repairs was acceptable. They calculated that the cost of out-of-warranty repairs wasn't their problem. They calculated that nobody would sue. Until someone changes those cost calculations, it appears Ricoh is going to keep using terrible solenoids.

You miss the entire problem here. The solenoids don't "fail" - they simply work in a different way, and the mechanism which assumes they will work in a particular way ceases to work correctly.

And Pentax could stop using solenoids, The price difference between the K-70 and the KP is about $200 - they could simply drop the K-70, and the problem would go away.

[reh321]

It always strikes me as an absolute epic fail for Pentax to have let this problem persist for so long. How many more lenses might Pentax have sold if they had not made multiple generations of affordable and otherwise excellent bodies that instantly make all of their excellent modern glass totally useless while still keeping the camera perfectly useable with second hand, or other manufacturers glass? How much lens revenue was lost on this? Madness.

Huh??
K-30, K-50, etc bodies are most usable with old Pentax lenses, such as the FA lens I personally use with my K-30.
When I purchased this lens in the Marketplace here, the money went to another PF member.

[clackers]

As such, there is also no forensic evidence for the cause.

Steve, if an amateur replacing the solenoid fixes the problem, the solenoid was the problem, right? I know you have a long history of not believing the solenoid is at fault.

[SharkyCA]

100% agree. Also, it can't possibly be that expensive to make better solenoids. This isn't a rare-earth mineral, a complex alloy, or a 16nm node process microchip. It's a solenoid. Pinball machines from the 1980s had dozens of solenoids. The idea that there is but one solenoid factory in all of China, that it makes shoddy products with failure rates of 3%, that nobody at Ricoh can refine the design, that nobody remains in Japan who can restart the manufacture of these electronic parts that were flawlessly produced 20 years ago? Pure nonsense.

I constantly have to find other manufacturers at work. This factory is backordered, that company raised its prices, tariffs in this country just went up, health quarantines have closed this supply chain for six weeks. I could get by for maybe a whole quarter telling my boss that we just had to tolerate excessive returns and warranty repairs due to a faulty part supplier. After that, my boss would be out of patience.

Ricoh/Pentax hasn't fixed this problem because they have decided not to. They calculated that the cost of warranty repairs was acceptable. They calculated that the cost of out-of-warranty repairs wasn't their problem. They calculated that nobody would sue. Until someone changes those cost calculations, it appears Ricoh is going to keep using terrible solenoids.

Just saw in your signature line you have a Pentax 200D, you may find this link interesting, as well as other readers of this thread.
pentax k200d | Camera Shutter Life Database
This is the original web link Find Out How Long It Is Before Your Camera Will Die | Fstoppers

We all have technology that fails from time to time, ever had a flat tire?

Cheers

[stevebrot]

Steve, if an amateur replacing the solenoid fixes the problem, the solenoid was the problem, right? I know you have a long history of not believing the solenoid is at fault.

Not if the solenoid was not bad (no aperture control block failure, the case being addressed by my statement).

FWIW, I am not a "solenoid denier" per se. It is obvious and well-documented that in most of the effected cameras the solenoid is not doing its job and has been rendered physically non-functional. Replacement provides a remedy.

That said, there are other potential points of failure and also the possibility that the solenoid fail may be a symptom rather than the cause. That is as far as I am willing to take it on the open forum. There are IT analogies, as you might expect.


Steve