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09-30-2020, 09:30 AM   #1
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K1 swapping aperture to front dial?

Is it possible to swap the shutter/aperture dials so aperture is on the front? I'm used to Nikons and on my K1 I tend to brush the wheel with my thumb when grabbing the camera so sometimes I get a wildly different aperture than I expected. I know It's user error but frustrating when shooting wildlife

I'd go through the settings myself but my battery died...

Cheers!

09-30-2020, 09:43 AM   #2
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Yes, this can be done. See page 99 of the English version manual. Rec. Mode Menu 5 or Movie Menu 2 I believe - button customization.
09-30-2020, 09:44 AM - 2 Likes   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by RedRuff Quote
I'd go through the settings myself but my battery died...
The manual is your friend...

Record menu --> Button Customization --> E-dial Programming


Steve
09-30-2020, 10:12 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
The manual is your friend...

Record menu --> Button Customization --> E-dial Programming


Steve
Of course... I somehow forget manuals exist, sorry. But thanks so much for the straight answer, it's a game changer

09-30-2020, 10:34 AM - 1 Like   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by RedRuff Quote
Of course... I somehow forget manuals exist, sorry. But thanks so much for the straight answer, it's a game changer
The ability to change the e-dial actions is a long-standing feature for Pentax cameras, but not something that most users are readily aware of, even though it is in the manual. Sorry for the sort of blunt reminder.


Steve
09-30-2020, 10:43 AM   #6
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Why would it be any other way?

I've never understood why, on so many cameras, the default is to assign the aperture the rear dial. The aperture is a real thing, and it's within the lens. The shutter is a real thing, too, located in the back of the camera body. Setting up the dials the opposite way turns both exposure factors into abstractions, and could be an obstacle to understanding the process.

Or would there be some advantage to setting up the dials that way?
09-30-2020, 11:05 AM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatridger Quote
I've never understood why, on so many cameras, the default is to assign the aperture the rear dial. The aperture is a real thing, and it's within the lens. The shutter is a real thing, too, located in the back of the camera body. Setting up the dials the opposite way turns both exposure factors into abstractions, and could be an obstacle to understanding the process.

Or would there be some advantage to setting up the dials that way?
When automation was first introduced into Pentax cameras it was via the ability to change the aperture on the lens (usually with the left hand), and then the camera would select a shutter speed. Manual control of the shutter speed on series like the ME and the A series would be via buttons controlled by the right hand forefinger.

It thus makes sense to me that when the twin wheel system was introduced (for me with the Z-1 in 1991), that the front dial changed the shutter speed as it used the same finger as it had done for the previous 15 years.

I don't fault your logic from a starting point of a neutral bias. But I am afraid you think like a designer, not a user of a camera brand that has always thought extremely carefully of how and where controls are placed.

Last edited by pschlute; 09-30-2020 at 01:41 PM.
09-30-2020, 12:35 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatridger Quote
I've never understood why, on so many cameras, the default is to assign the aperture the rear dial. The aperture is a real thing, and it's within the lens. The shutter is a real thing, too, located in the back of the camera body. Setting up the dials the opposite way turns both exposure factors into abstractions, and could be an obstacle to understanding the process.

Or would there be some advantage to setting up the dials that way?
I don't understand your use of the word "abstractions"

When I turn the front e-dial, I am controlling the real shutter speed - there is nothing abstract about it - and I would have same control if I turned a dial on a side or pressed a button on the top {in fact I kind of do, with the green button}

When I turn the rear e-dial, I am controlling the real aperture as much as if I do by turning a ring on the lens - there is nothing abstract about it - and I would have same control if I turned a dial on a side or the bottom

09-30-2020, 12:44 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatridger Quote
Or would there be some advantage to setting up the dials that way?
It may have something to do with how it works on single-dial models.


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09-30-2020, 12:56 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
It may have something to do with how it works on single-dial models.

Steve
The Q-7 has just one e-dial {on the back}, and a button {on the back} switches between them {in 'M' mode}.
I cannot remember when I can control both shutter speed and aperture, and when I control shutter speed and EC, so I look at the LCD to see what options are listed.

Last edited by reh321; 09-30-2020 at 01:10 PM.
09-30-2020, 01:14 PM - 1 Like   #11
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With film cameras unless they used buttons the shutter speed was set with the top dial, easily turned with the index finger. The exceptions would be bodies using buttons and the *ist, Ignoring the *ist it would seem logical to follow previous designs to have the shutter speed set by the index finger.

But since this can be changed in the settings to suit your tastes it doesn't really matter. What matters most is that the controls are for the most part well placed.
09-30-2020, 02:01 PM   #12
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More camera control logic
From examples on my shelf...(quirks bolded)

K-3 digital SLR (no optional grip):
Shutter release: index or second finger
Shutter speed: index or second finger
Aperture: thumb
Focus: AF or left hand
Most of the film SLR and 35mm rangefinder cameras:
Shutter release: index or second finger or right hand
Shutter speed: index finger + thumb of right hand
Aperture: left hand
Focus: left hand
Exakta film SLRs:
Shutter release: index or thumb of left hand (depending on waist level or eye level shooting
Shutter speed: index finger + thumb either hand
Aperture: whatever hand is not supporting camera
Focus: whatever hand is not supporting camera
Yashica Lynx rangefinders:
Shutter release: index finger of right hand
Aperture, shutter speed, and focus...whatever is most comfortable (all controls on lens barrel)
Remainder of film SLRs and 35mm rangefinders:
Shutter release: index or second finger or right hand
Shutter speed: index finger of right hand
Aperture: left hand
Focus: left hand
Yashica 44 TLR:
Shutter release: index or second finger of right hand
Shutter speed: index finger + thumb either hand
Aperture: index finger either hand (lever and window hard to find)
Focus: left hand
Minolta Autocord TLR:
Shutter release: index or second finger of right hand
Shutter speed: index finger, usually right hand
Aperture: index finger, usually left hand (
Focus: combination of index + second fingers, both hands (lever across front of camera below taking lens)
Mamiya/Sekor 120 rangerfinder folder:
Shutter release: index finger of right hand
Shutter speed: thumb + forefinger, either hand
Aperture: index finger, usually right hand
Focus: right thumb
Strangely, all of the above are fairly intuitive in use, though the Autocord's use of EV settings* (viewed from the front) for shutter/aperture and conventional settings (viewed from the top) is a bit confusing at first, it becomes quite easy if one has a meter that reads out in EV.


Steve

* This is EV in the sense of Exposure Value, a unit-less number based on combination of shutter speed and relative aperture (f-number) serving as a measure of the amount of light reaching the film. (LINK) If the meter says EV 10, one sets numbers for shutter and aperture that add up to 10. Cool, eh?
09-30-2020, 06:00 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
It may have something to do with how it works on single-dial models.


Steve
That was it for me. TBH it was years before I really got used to two dials even after setting them up in a way that makes sense to me.
09-30-2020, 06:50 PM - 1 Like   #14
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I always confused my self as to which dial did what, so I changed aperture to the front dial. So now Front dial = F stop.
09-30-2020, 09:35 PM - 1 Like   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sqideyes Quote
I always confused my self as to which dial did what, so I changed aperture to the front dial. So now Front dial = F stop.
To paraphrase Yoda:

Do. Or do not. There is no think.
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