Thumbnails in negative

**Mooncatt** · 10-06-2020, 08:21 PM

This one is perplexing me. I transferred some photos from my K3 II to my laptop, and then copied them to both my LG V60 and my wife's Samsung Note 9 phones. On my phone, everything shows up correctly. On my wife's phone, the thumbnails in the stock gallery show up almost like a film negative. When you tap on one to view full size, it displays the colors correctly. When viewing in the Google Photos app, the thumbnails are displaying the correct colors as well.

The kicker is this only happens with my K3 II photos, so I don't think it's an issue with her gallery app. Photos from other DSLR's, downloaded photos, photos she takes with her phone, etc. all have the proper thumbnails. When I sent one of the K3 II photos from my phone to her via Bluetooth, it also showed up as a negative. If I edit one and save as a new file, or transfer it through a service like Facebook Messenger (which compresses and doesn't send the exact original file), the thumbnails are correct. You can see in this screenshot of her gallery the difference. The photo on the left is an original straight from the camera. The one on the right was one I edited and saved as a new file. Both are stored in the same folder and show up like this side by side in the thumbnail list.

Any idea what's going on?

Attached Images

deus ursus · 10-07-2020, 12:20 AM

It doesn't look exactly like a negative, more like one colour has dropped out somehow.

Spock · 10-07-2020, 12:51 AM

I get the exact same thing with photos
I transfer wirelessly from my K3 to my phone. The thumbnail views in the 'gallery' have colours missing or incorrect but when viewing a photo individually it's all as normal.

pschlute · 10-07-2020, 01:16 AM - **2 Likes**

Is your camera set to sRGB colour space ?

Spock · 10-07-2020, 04:00 AM - **1 Like**

Screenshot from my phone gallery

**Mooncatt** · 10-07-2020, 05:52 AM

Originally posted by pschlute

Is your camera set to sRGB colour space ?

I'll have to double check later, but I'm pretty sure it is. I have no use for Adobe RGB.

**Bob 256** · 10-07-2020, 07:48 AM

It's about a +105 degree phase shift in the color space with some other changes in saturation and brightness so something is shifting the color information when it's transferred. It's strange because it's not a 180 degree flop of the colors but a seemingly odd one.

stevebrot · 10-07-2020, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by Mooncatt

This one is perplexing me. I transferred some photos from my K3 II to my laptop, and then copied them to both my LG V60 and my wife's Samsung Note 9 phones. On my phone, everything shows up correctly. On my wife's phone, the thumbnails in the stock gallery show up almost like a film negative. When you tap on one to view full size, it displays the colors correctly. When viewing in the Google Photos app, the thumbnails are displaying the correct colors as well.

What do the pictures look like when reviewed "in camera"?

Steve

Spock · 10-07-2020, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

What do the pictures look like when reviewed "in camera"?

Steve

For me they look normal.

**Mooncatt** · 10-07-2020, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

What do the pictures look like when reviewed "in camera"?

Steve

Normal for me as well.

stevebrot · 10-07-2020, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by Spock

For me they look normal.

Originally posted by Mooncatt

Normal for me as well.

The reason I asked is that the funky versions look a bit like the cross-process custom image setting. When shooting RAW, the preview JPEGs will include in-camera processing while the processed RAW will generally not unless done in the DCU software that came with the camera. It being disturbingly easy to accidentally apply these settings on the K-3/K-3II, it is something to rule out.

Steve

**Mooncatt** · 10-07-2020, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

The reason I asked is that the funky versions look a bit like the cross-process custom image setting. When shooting RAW, the preview JPEGs will include in-camera processing while the processed RAW will generally not unless done in the DCU software that came with the camera. It being disturbingly easy to accidentally apply these settings on the K-3/K-3II, it is something to rule out.

Steve

You lost me a bit there. I saw mention of cross processing in the manual, but have no interest in it and not sure how it works. Are you saying that based on our answers, you DON'T think this is the cause?

stevebrot · 10-07-2020, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by Mooncatt

You lost me a bit there. I saw mention of cross processing in the manual, but have no interest in it and not sure how it works. Are you saying that based on our answers, you DON'T think this is the cause?

I don't know for sure. To check your current setting, press the right side of the 4-way controller on the back. Default is "Bright". There is a tendency for people to press the controller with the base of their thumb and accidentally change the setting to something more interesting. It would be nice if Ricoh/Pentax had included a confirmation step.

Steve

**Mooncatt** · 10-07-2020, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

I don't know for sure. To check your current setting, press the right side of the 4-way controller on the back. Default is "Bright". There is a tendency for people to press the controller with the base of their thumb and accidentally change the setting to something more interesting. It would be nice if Ricoh/Pentax had included a confirmation step.

Steve

I keep mine set to natural, in case that changes anything. If this was the case, any idea why thumbnails only shows up wonky on my wife's OEM gallery and not others, nor my phone 's gallery?

**disasterfilm** · 10-08-2020, 07:01 AM - **1 Like**

OK so I think I've figured out technically what is happening, but not why or how it's happening.

The image on the left is getting the RGB channels improperly mixed.

The red and green channels are getting displayed as pure grayscale.
The blue channel is being shifted to the red channel.

If you want to replicate this in Photoshop to check, open up the file, then create a new Channel Mixer layer.
Under the "RED" panel, set the Values as follows - R: 33%, G 33%, B 33%
Under the "GREEN" panel, set the Values as follows - R: 33%, G 33%, B 33%
Under the "BLUE" panel, set the Vales as follows - R: 100%, G 0%, B 0%

Here's a side-by-side. On the left is the incorrectly-displaying image, and on the right is the properly-colorized image with the Channel Swap applied.

It's not a 100% match, but it's pretty dang close.

10-06-2020, 08:21 PM	#1
Mooncatt Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: May 2020 Location: Wisconsin Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,373	Thumbnails in negative This one is perplexing me. I transferred some photos from my K3 II to my laptop, and then copied them to both my LG V60 and my wife's Samsung Note 9 phones. On my phone, everything shows up correctly. On my wife's phone, the thumbnails in the stock gallery show up almost like a film negative. When you tap on one to view full size, it displays the colors correctly. When viewing in the Google Photos app, the thumbnails are displaying the correct colors as well. The kicker is this only happens with my K3 II photos, so I don't think it's an issue with her gallery app. Photos from other DSLR's, downloaded photos, photos she takes with her phone, etc. all have the proper thumbnails. When I sent one of the K3 II photos from my phone to her via Bluetooth, it also showed up as a negative. If I edit one and save as a new file, or transfer it through a service like Facebook Messenger (which compresses and doesn't send the exact original file), the thumbnails are correct. You can see in this screenshot of her gallery the difference. The photo on the left is an original straight from the camera. The one on the right was one I edited and saved as a new file. Both are stored in the same folder and show up like this side by side in the thumbnail list. Any idea what's going on? Attached Images

10-07-2020, 12:20 AM	#2
deus ursus Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Stårheim, Norway Posts: 659	It doesn't look exactly like a negative, more like one colour has dropped out somehow. Last edited by deus ursus; 10-07-2020 at 02:40 AM.

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10-07-2020, 12:51 AM	#3
Spock Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 674	I get the exact same thing with photos I transfer wirelessly from my K3 to my phone. The thumbnail views in the 'gallery' have colours missing or incorrect but when viewing a photo individually it's all as normal.

10-07-2020, 01:16 AM - 2 Likes	#4
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,223	Is your camera set to sRGB colour space ?

10-07-2020, 04:00 AM - 1 Like	#5
Spock Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 674	Screenshot from my phone gallery

10-07-2020, 05:52 AM	#6
Mooncatt Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: May 2020 Location: Wisconsin Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,373 Original Poster	Originally posted by pschlute Is your camera set to sRGB colour space ? I'll have to double check later, but I'm pretty sure it is. I have no use for Adobe RGB.

10-07-2020, 07:48 AM	#7
Bob 256 Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Idaho Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,379	It's about a +105 degree phase shift in the color space with some other changes in saturation and brightness so something is shifting the color information when it's transferred. It's strange because it's not a 180 degree flop of the colors but a seemingly odd one.

10-07-2020, 08:42 AM	#8
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Mooncatt This one is perplexing me. I transferred some photos from my K3 II to my laptop, and then copied them to both my LG V60 and my wife's Samsung Note 9 phones. On my phone, everything shows up correctly. On my wife's phone, the thumbnails in the stock gallery show up almost like a film negative. When you tap on one to view full size, it displays the colors correctly. When viewing in the Google Photos app, the thumbnails are displaying the correct colors as well. What do the pictures look like when reviewed "in camera"? Steve

10-07-2020, 09:00 AM	#9
Spock Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 674	Originally posted by stevebrot What do the pictures look like when reviewed "in camera"? Steve For me they look normal.

10-07-2020, 09:28 AM	#10
Mooncatt Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: May 2020 Location: Wisconsin Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,373 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot What do the pictures look like when reviewed "in camera"? Steve Normal for me as well.

10-07-2020, 09:42 AM	#11
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Spock For me they look normal. Originally posted by Mooncatt Normal for me as well. The reason I asked is that the funky versions look a bit like the cross-process custom image setting. When shooting RAW, the preview JPEGs will include in-camera processing while the processed RAW will generally not unless done in the DCU software that came with the camera. It being disturbingly easy to accidentally apply these settings on the K-3/K-3II, it is something to rule out. Steve

10-07-2020, 10:36 AM	#12
Mooncatt Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: May 2020 Location: Wisconsin Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,373 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot The reason I asked is that the funky versions look a bit like the cross-process custom image setting. When shooting RAW, the preview JPEGs will include in-camera processing while the processed RAW will generally not unless done in the DCU software that came with the camera. It being disturbingly easy to accidentally apply these settings on the K-3/K-3II, it is something to rule out. Steve You lost me a bit there. I saw mention of cross processing in the manual, but have no interest in it and not sure how it works. Are you saying that based on our answers, you DON'T think this is the cause?

10-07-2020, 11:07 AM	#13
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Mooncatt You lost me a bit there. I saw mention of cross processing in the manual, but have no interest in it and not sure how it works. Are you saying that based on our answers, you DON'T think this is the cause? I don't know for sure. To check your current setting, press the right side of the 4-way controller on the back. Default is "Bright". There is a tendency for people to press the controller with the base of their thumb and accidentally change the setting to something more interesting. It would be nice if Ricoh/Pentax had included a confirmation step. Steve

10-07-2020, 11:48 AM	#14
Mooncatt Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: May 2020 Location: Wisconsin Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,373 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot I don't know for sure. To check your current setting, press the right side of the 4-way controller on the back. Default is "Bright". There is a tendency for people to press the controller with the base of their thumb and accidentally change the setting to something more interesting. It would be nice if Ricoh/Pentax had included a confirmation step. Steve I keep mine set to natural, in case that changes anything. If this was the case, any idea why thumbnails only shows up wonky on my wife's OEM gallery and not others, nor my phone 's gallery?

10-08-2020, 07:01 AM - 1 Like	#15
disasterfilm Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Texas Posts: 406	OK so I think I've figured out technically what is happening, but not why or how it's happening. The image on the left is getting the RGB channels improperly mixed. The red and green channels are getting displayed as pure grayscale. The blue channel is being shifted to the red channel. If you want to replicate this in Photoshop to check, open up the file, then create a new Channel Mixer layer. Under the "RED" panel, set the Values as follows - R: 33%, G 33%, B 33% Under the "GREEN" panel, set the Values as follows - R: 33%, G 33%, B 33% Under the "BLUE" panel, set the Vales as follows - R: 100%, G 0%, B 0% Here's a side-by-side. On the left is the incorrectly-displaying image, and on the right is the properly-colorized image with the Channel Swap applied. It's not a 100% match, but it's pretty dang close.