[mikesbike]

Ok new to the digital world, I know what jpg is but have no idea what raw is or why I should shoot this way. Seems like to me (sounds like an assumption, never good) that one shoots in raw and then converts the image to jpg when saving the image. I know nothing about raw and not a lot about digital photography or even film photography, not a photo techno I just like taking pictures and sometimes actually capture some good ones. I have not been able to find a thread explaining what raw is, or why I should shoot this way. Please don't tear my head off I don't live photography but do love to take pictures. Any and all help is greatly appreciated, even if you do tear off part of my head. Please leave enough for my wife to swing a skillet at.

Which camera model are you using? Have you a substantial background including film use?

[GUB]

Which camera model are you using? Have you a substantial background including film use?

How is that relevant Mikesbike? I don't think they had raw in the film days
The issue can be simplified down to -
In Jpg your camera work is more complicated and your computer work is simpler.
In Raw your camera work is simpler and your computer work is more complicated.
Personally I like to keep my shooting session as simple as possible and do it later. But that depends on the person.

[noelpolar]

Lots of good explanations above... for me... it is simple....

Wife says... Noel.... get a photo of that fledgling on the deck...

Camera jpeg


Edited raw shot....


Of course... I could spend time editing the camera generated jpeg.... but why start out 50% behind the 8 ball.... it's bit like trying to get fit with exercise with a bad diet.

Unless shooting under reasonably consistent conditions... some 3 months or so after I started shooting RAW I would never get a jpeg image anywhere near as good as a edited raw image... maybe because things are just too fast and variable for my brain these days.... and certain bits of software make all the difference to the raws.

[Ian Stuart Forsyth]

Ok new to the digital world, I know what jpg is but have no idea what raw is or why I should shoot this way. Seems like to me (sounds like an assumption, never good) that one shoots in raw and then converts the image to jpg when saving the image. I know nothing about raw and not a lot about digital photography or even film photography, not a photo techno I just like taking pictures and sometimes actually capture some good ones. I have not been able to find a thread explaining what raw is, or why I should shoot this way. Please don't tear my head off I don't live photography but do love to take pictures. Any and all help is greatly appreciated, even if you do tear off part of my head. Please leave enough for my wife to swing a skillet at.

One of the reason why as stated by many here is the latitude in how you can present your images.

When shooting raw you are not limited to how the images will be processed, this includes the profiles that are used to create the colors found in your image. If your are shooting jpg you are limited to how the software developer of the default conversion that is being done within the camera converting that sensor data into the jpg image format.


There is also the problem that you are limiting your color gamut with the largest found within the cameras settings to adobe rgb. this can limit how future proof you are making your images and how you reproduce color.

Youtu.be

Youtu.be

If we look at this short video the solid color frame in the middle is that of one of my older printers gamut and the wire frame around it represents the adobe rgb gamut and you can see that there is some of the colors the printer has the ability to reproduce fall out side of the Adobe profile.
One of the reason why i like to shoot raw is that i can select the color space after the fact

Youtu.be

Youtu.be

Here is the same print gamut but instead of using Abode rgb i am using pro photo as the wire frame model and as you can see all of what my printer can reproduce fall within that color space.

This will bring us to one of the reoccurring errors that many think that pentax cameras prematurely blowing the red channel and subsequently they often are lead to believe they need to decrease the exposure to eliminated this idea of clipping in the red channel



Here is a image that would lead one to believe that you need to use a smaller exposure to eliminate the clipping shown in red

This is the same image but all I have done is change over to the pro photo color space and you can see that all of what people think was clipped at the time of capture was always there and its was how the image was processed produced this false idea that there was a need to lower the exposure ( which is the wrong way of thinking as this is the very opposite to what you what to do if you are trying to reproduce better files for your reds)

There is also white balance, much of the time the correct white balance is not selected for an accurate representation of the scene but rather the artistic feel of the image.
I find this best to be done away from the camera and done in controlled settings away from conditions that can influence how you think the colors appear on the back of your camera .

[UncleVanya]

The best advice I can give is that most cameras do a good job creating jpg, but subtle improvements or tweaks can be made if you have the RAW and are willing to invest in tools and time. HOWEVER, the primary initial benefits are at the extremes of performance. Lifting shadows, squeezing a picture out from a high iso shot with less noise, adjusting color balance when the auto white balance didn't see things as you did.

Shot however you are happiest, and if you want to experiment you can enable a mode that saves both raw and jpg. Then if you like the joy you keep it and if you don't you can tinker. As someone else said, raw files are like negatives, you can make a lot of different mood prints from one. Unlike steak... You can keep cooking it over and over until you like it, nothing in modern editors is destructive to the raw files.

[SpecialK]

Be prepared to spend significant time postprocessing - but it‘s worth the effort.

I typically take 15 seconds or less. Once you get the desired result, you can easily apply the settings to subsequent shots, or do them in batches. I use Elements, which has 3 levels of use - easy/guided/expert - and lots of online help.

In a nutshell, jpg is like a store-bought cake, and raw is a collection of ingredients you use to make the cake how you want.

[mikesbike]

How is that relevant Mikesbike? I don't think they had raw in the film days
The issue can be simplified down to -
In Jpg your camera work is more complicated and your computer work is simpler.
In Raw your camera work is simpler and your computer work is more complicated.
Personally I like to keep my shooting session as simple as possible and do it later. But that depends on the person.

I agree.

But some camera models are not all that good for JPEG output, and some people who have had experience such as darkroom with film, might appreciate learning RAW once they see the point is similar. Also, maybe in his case it's the other way, and he would like to keep things very uncomplicated.

Also, in some camera models, these are devoid of better controls for situations like needing to implement highlight a protection feature, or for opening up shadows that would benefit JPEG shots without having to resort to post process, yet avoiding a problematic outcome. Other models have a number of built-in options that can better serve JPEG output. In older models, there also might not be Custom Image selections and adjustments for JPEG use.

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Last edited by mikesbike; 10-10-2020 at 11:33 PM.

[Papa_Joe]

Start with shooting jpegs. You will encounter a lot of problems mostly from high contrast scenes like this bird above. With a bit of learning about how to set the right exposure, you can master 95% of the all day issues without post processing.


I think there is no much sense in shooting RAW, before you haven't mastered shooting jpeg. Because the knowledge you need to get a well exposured JPEG is the same you need to get a well developed RAW file. Then, the latest Pentax cameras are doing excellent jpegs and if you tweak the settings a bit, you will get even better shots.


There are of course some subjects, where RAW shooting is advisable, but you will find out in time, which are these.

[texandrews]

I agree with the advice above to shoot raw+jpg. When I was "adjusting" to digital after 2+decades of film, I did this with my Oly cameras. It allowed me to wrap my head around what was going on with the raws and the jpg's both, and also to begin understanding post-processing better (who here remembers RSE, my first raw developer? And then RSP, which got sold to Adobe, and with mutations got incorporated into the firs t version of Lightroom? And then there's LightZone...full disclosure, I run that website, but in 2005 it was the first completely non-destructive raw converter.).

So, a good exercise for post processing is to try and match your jpg's. I did that for a while with my Oly jpg's---which were beautiful, btw---until I wondered why I was trying to duplicate someone else's idea of what my photo ought to look like. Now, I only shoot jpg's for convenience and quickness for shots that aren't critical.

Several truths about raws and jpg's:

• Pros working under time constraints can often dial in their cameras for great jpg output. That takes effort, though, and pro-level thinking.
• jpg's are great for quick transfers, and one extra reason is that they are smaller files.
• jpg's aren't very forgiving.
• Use raw when the light is difficult, or because you needed to use settings that the camera indicates aren't "best".
• Use raw when you need to milk the files for every gram of goodness.
• Use raw when you're not sure what you're doing at capture---see the first bullet point.
• Raws takes longer.
• Raws help you learn post processing better.

[ehrwien]

When you shoot, say, your children playing at home, and when looking through the photos you see that they came out too dark or they have a colour tint because of your new LED lamps at home - you can go back a day later and set the correct white balance in camera and correct your exposure so that it doesn't come out too dark. JPEG is totally fine for this.
But when you're shooting a wedding and when looking through the pictures later you see that the bride's dress is not white as it should be but visibly yellowish because the camera's white balance got fooled by something, and the couple's faces are a little dark because of a bird flying by casting a shadow on them right at the moment of their first kiss - you can't go back a day later and take the pics again. But when you saved the pictures as RAW files, you can easily correct the white balance afterwards to make the dress white as it should be and push up the shadows in their faces without it looking off. Shooting RAW gives you that little more headroom than JPEG to save pictures that you just can't take again.

Something else to consider: besides taking more space on your SD cards when saving RAW or RAW+ instead of just JPEG, shooting JPEG only might also give you the ability to get off more FPS (frames per second) for longer before slowing down because the internal buffer of the camera is full. But the time the camera needs to be ready again after a picture also depends on what JPEG correction settings you have enabled - some of those may prolong the time until the camera is ready again considerably, like noise reduction. A good RAW software will be able to apply the same or even better corrections afterwards.

[dipo 1]

Wow have I got a lot to learn and read, I have a K5. Think Ill shoot jpeg awhile till I learn more about my camera. GREAT BIG THANKS TO ALL OF YOU!!!!

[mikesbike]

Start with shooting jpegs. You will encounter a lot of problems mostly from high contrast scenes like this bird above. With a bit of learning about how to set the right exposure, you can master 95% of the all day issues without post processing.


I think there is no much sense in shooting RAW, before you haven't mastered shooting jpeg. Because the knowledge you need to get a well exposured JPEG is the same you need to get a well developed RAW file. Then, the latest Pentax cameras are doing excellent jpegs and if you tweak the settings a bit, you will get even better shots.


There are of course some subjects, where RAW shooting is advisable, but you will find out in time, which are these.

I Agree.

[Alex645]

I think there is no much sense in shooting RAW, before you haven't mastered shooting jpeg.
There are of course some subjects, where RAW shooting is advisable, but you will find out in time, which are these.

In some ways, it's not so much Jpeg vs. RAW as it is camera processing vs. photographer processing. I once saw a major survey of pro photographers that revealed 98% of all "keepers" had some degree of dodging and burning. Of course you can dodge and burn a jpeg, but there are less limitations with RAW. To dither or not to dither? That is the question.

[mikesbike]

Wow have I got a lot to learn and read, I have a K5. Think Ill shoot jpeg awhile till I learn more about my camera. GREAT BIG THANKS TO ALL OF YOU!!!!

You have an excellent camera! I hope you have a fine and versatile lens also.

When it was a current model, the K-5 was the finest DSLR camera Pentax made- the "Flagship" model, designed for advanced and professional users. In addition, it won awards for originality and performance and was top-ranked by independent testing labs specializing in camera equipment. It was also a very significant advancement in performance over the previous Pentax flagship model.

I would advise not using the green "Auto" setting on the mode dial. This setting will not allow most adjustments or access to many features, having the camera make all decisions and settings according to what it "thinks" you are shooting. To shoot with fully automatic exposure, where the camera will set both your lens aperture opening and the shutter speed for "correct" exposure according to the camera's light meter reading, use the "P" (Program) mode instead, which will allow adjustments, etc. In fact, though this is a standard setting for any brand of DSLR, with Pentax you can access more adjustments than others.

You can also experiment using the "Av" (Aperture value) mode, where you set the lens aperture and the camera sets the shutter speed accordingly for "correct" exposure. Or "Tv" (Time value) where you set the shutter speed and the camera will set the aperture. However, the purpose for each of these settings and when to use them for what purpose is for another discussion. There are also other, more advanced modes.

You can and eventually should also learn to shoot in the "M" (Manual) mode where you set your own choice of aperture and shutter speed according to the meter reading you observe in the viewfinder or LCD panel.

So, first thing- set your mode dial to "P" then notice the 4 buttons surrounding the "ok" button on the back of your camera. Press the button to the right of "ok" which will open up the Custom Image menus. Now the 4 buttons will be for navigation. By default, the category the camera is operating with and should be shown is the "Bright" category. If not, navigate to that category. Once you have it, navigate down to the Sharpness aspect for adjustment. By default, "Bright" will have sharpness increased up one notch. Increase that by one more notch using that right-hand button, which with this model camera can be done without introducing unwanted effects. Now also implement "Fine Sharpening" using your thumb dial to put an F by the S. Then hit "ok" and you are set to go.

[dipo 1]

mikesbike, I shoot mainly in M mode because I have 3 takumar lenses, 55 1.8, 85 1.9, 135 3.5 (left over from film days) and 2 DA L kit lenses 18-55 and 50-200. Don't use the DA L 18 to 55 much because of the 55 tak. Use 50-200 a lot for long shots. There is so much to learn with the K5, I bought it a couple years ago because it got some very good reviews on line and the shutter count was 1035 or maybe 1037. Was in mint condition and have been loving it ever since, I retired my 71 Spotmatic, shes an old girl but still takes great pics. I'm sure I will bring her out again, who knows. Thanks for your great advice above, have saved it to word and will print it out to study and play with the K5.