K-1 Exposure Metering Help

mwr6348 · 10-20-2020, 10:44 PM

Hi All,

I've been a K-70 user up until it was knocked over on a job last week. While its fate is being decided by the LCS, I've rented a K-1 with a 15mm Laowa shift lens. I've poked around in the settings, however, I can't seem to find a way to change any EV settings in manual mode. Any help is very much appreciated. If I attach an AF lens, I can adjust the exposure in ISO mode, but nothing with the Laowa.

I assume I'm missing something obvious, but I'm pulling out hair.

Thanks!

Sandy Hancock · 10-20-2020, 11:18 PM

Does the shift lens have an "A" setting on the aperture ring? I suspect by its very nature (with the aperture located in front of the shift mechanism) that is not possible, so it probably needs to be used in full manual mode with stop down metering.

pschlute · 10-21-2020, 03:52 AM

Originally posted by mwr6348

I assume I'm missing something obvious, but I'm pulling out hair.

Is this the lens ? Venus Optics Laowa 15mm f/4 Macro Lens for Pentax K VE1540P B&H

If so you need to use the aperture ring on the lens to set your required f stop. Then press green button for the camera to meter and select a shutter speed. ISO is manual. Use the histogram to determine if the exposure is to your liking and change shutter speed/ISO/aperture if you wish to change.

You can only use Manual exposure mode or Av mode. But in Av mode the lens will always be wide open, so best stick to Manual.

Edit...I do not have any experience of the lens in question, but if it indeed does stop down in real time then Av mode should work too, like an M42 lens.

**UncleVanya** · 10-21-2020, 06:16 AM

Can you use ev compensation in manual mode? I can't recall.

pschlute · 10-21-2020, 06:38 AM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

Can you use ev compensation in manual mode? I can't recall.

On the K1 yes you can, but I don't think this is what the OP is asking.

OP....please correct me if I am wrong

stevebrot · 10-21-2020, 08:26 AM

I was unaware that Venus Optics made a shift lens, but if it is similar to other shift lenses, it makes things rather complicated in that:

Its aperture cannot be controlled by the camera
Its aperture mechanism requires manual stop-down prior to metering and/or exposure

As a result, you get no automated exposure modes with operation similar to using an adapted vintage M42 lens with fully manual or preset aperture mechanism. A full explanation and suggestions for usage would take longer than I have this morning. The gist is:

If you use TTL metering, do so with the lens unshifted
You can use green button metering in M mode (I suggest live view for best accuracy)
You can also use Av mode while manually stopping down. The camera will set to an appropriate shutter speed. Again, live view will be more accurate.

Good luck!

Steve

**acoufap** · 10-21-2020, 08:26 AM

On the K-1 in M mode you can't use EV (exposure compensation) or I should better say you can change EV but without any effect.

You simply have to go up or down with exposure time.

If you use an A lens (A, FA, DFA), you can see the effect of this up or down on the display and in the histogram. If you go up and down using EV you won't recognise any effect.

If you use an M lens like a M1.7/50 you even don't see an effect on the display when going up or down with exposure time.

Funny thing is that the K-5 behaves different. It simulates up and down for an M lens on the display when using exposure compensation.

stevebrot · 10-21-2020, 08:37 AM

Originally posted by acoufap

On the K-1 in M mode you can't use EV (exposure compensation) or I should better say you can change EV but without any effect.

EC should work in M mode.

As for lens type...OP says it is a shift lens. Those almost always have preset or fully manual apertures.

Steve

**dms** · 10-21-2020, 09:04 AM

Seems unlikely and you say nothing about flashing error message, but is "use of aperture ring" enabled?

pschlute · 10-21-2020, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by acoufap

On the K-1 in M mode you can't use EV (exposure compensation) or I should better say you can change EV but without any effect.

That is not correct. Whatever lens you use (even M or K lenses) EC will have an effect with the K1 in Manual mode. Dial in +5 EC and press the green button or use the DOF preview lever method to centre the exposure meter, and you will have an overexposed shot by 5 stops.

**acoufap** · 10-21-2020, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by pschlute

That is not correct. Whatever lens you use (even M or K lenses) EC will have an effect with the K1 in Manual mode. Dial in +5 EC and press the green button or use the DOF preview lever method to centre the exposure meter, and you will have an overexposed shot by 5 stops.

Now that you said I'm not correct, I just tried it instantly again.

Result from a few minutes ago:

K-1 and M1.7/50, M Exposure Mode - Green button + 5 EV comp delivers the same image as green button without EV comp.

Believe it or not.

If I reduce Exposure Time I get an underexposed image, if I put 5 stops on top I get it overexposed. That's how it should work.

So maybe our K-1's are different? Or there is a parameter that makes it work this or that way?!

How knows. I just reported how my K-1 behaves.

The important thing is that everyone knows his own kit, so that it works how he/she expects. Testing by ourselves is essential and helps to learn.

pschlute · 10-21-2020, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by acoufap

Now that you said I'm not correct, I just tried it instantly again.

Result from a few minutes ago:

K-1 and M1.7/50, M Exposure Mode - Green button + 5 EV comp delivers the same image as green button without EV comp.

Believe it or not.

If I reduce Exposure Time I get an underexposed image, if I put 5 stops on top I get it overexposed. That's how it should work.

So maybe our K-1's are different? Or there is a parameter that makes it work this or that way?!

How knows. I just reported how my K-1 behaves.

The important thing is that everyone knows his own kit, so that it works how he/she expects. Testing by ourselves is essential and helps to learn.

Make sure you do not have auto EV compensation turned on. I too tried the K1 with a M series lens. Green button gives 1/250. Change EC compensation to +5 and green button gives me 1/10

What firmware are you on ?

**acoufap** · 10-21-2020, 11:57 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by pschlute

auto EV compensation

Checked it - Auto EV compensation is Off (Menu C-1.4).

pschlute · 10-21-2020, 12:22 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by acoufap

Or there is a parameter that makes it work this or that way?!

I think I may have the answer.

If you select EC using the button on the top of camera (and rear wheel to set) the green button has a function to return the EC to zero. So you need to press EC button.....turn wheel....press EC button again to come out of EC mode.....press green button to meter.

Funnily enough, if you use the top dials (function and setting) instead of the EC button to set your EC setting, the green button has no re-set to zero function.

**acoufap** · 10-21-2020, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by pschlute

I think I may have the answer.

If you select EC using the button on the top of camera (and rear wheel to set) the green button has a function to return the EC to zero. So you need to press EC button.....turn wheel....press EC button again to come out of EC mode.....press green button to meter.

Funnily enough, if you use the top dials (function and setting) instead of the EC button to set your EC setting, the green button has no re-set to zero function.

So what you found in the end is, that if you want to use EC on the K-1 with an M lens you have to commit the EC entry (+/- button plus back dial adjustment for EC) using the green button. Ok, this I didn't know until now. Interesting, thanks! - Tried it and learned something.

10-20-2020, 10:44 PM	#1
mwr6348 New Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 8	K-1 Exposure Metering Help Hi All, I've been a K-70 user up until it was knocked over on a job last week. While its fate is being decided by the LCS, I've rented a K-1 with a 15mm Laowa shift lens. I've poked around in the settings, however, I can't seem to find a way to change any EV settings in manual mode. Any help is very much appreciated. If I attach an AF lens, I can adjust the exposure in ISO mode, but nothing with the Laowa. I assume I'm missing something obvious, but I'm pulling out hair. Thanks!

10-21-2020, 03:52 AM	#3
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,219	Originally posted by mwr6348 I assume I'm missing something obvious, but I'm pulling out hair. Is this the lens ? Venus Optics Laowa 15mm f/4 Macro Lens for Pentax K VE1540P B&H If so you need to use the aperture ring on the lens to set your required f stop. Then press green button for the camera to meter and select a shutter speed. ISO is manual. Use the histogram to determine if the exposure is to your liking and change shutter speed/ISO/aperture if you wish to change. You can only use Manual exposure mode or Av mode. But in Av mode the lens will always be wide open, so best stick to Manual. Edit...I do not have any experience of the lens in question, but if it indeed does stop down in real time then Av mode should work too, like an M42 lens. Last edited by pschlute; 10-21-2020 at 09:02 AM.

10-21-2020, 08:26 AM	#6
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	I was unaware that Venus Optics made a shift lens, but if it is similar to other shift lenses, it makes things rather complicated in that: Its aperture cannot be controlled by the camera Its aperture mechanism requires manual stop-down prior to metering and/or exposure As a result, you get no automated exposure modes with operation similar to using an adapted vintage M42 lens with fully manual or preset aperture mechanism. A full explanation and suggestions for usage would take longer than I have this morning. The gist is: If you use TTL metering, do so with the lens unshifted You can use green button metering in M mode (I suggest live view for best accuracy) You can also use Av mode while manually stopping down. The camera will set to an appropriate shutter speed. Again, live view will be more accurate. Good luck! Steve

10-21-2020, 12:22 PM - 2 Likes	#14
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,219	Originally posted by acoufap Or there is a parameter that makes it work this or that way?! I think I may have the answer. If you select EC using the button on the top of camera (and rear wheel to set) the green button has a function to return the EC to zero. So you need to press EC button.....turn wheel....press EC button again to come out of EC mode.....press green button to meter. Funnily enough, if you use the top dials (function and setting) instead of the EC button to set your EC setting, the green button has no re-set to zero function. Last edited by pschlute; 10-21-2020 at 12:38 PM.

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10-20-2020, 11:18 PM	#2
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,275	Does the shift lens have an "A" setting on the aperture ring? I suspect by its very nature (with the aperture located in front of the shift mechanism) that is not possible, so it probably needs to be used in full manual mode with stop down metering.

10-21-2020, 06:16 AM	#4
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,467	Can you use ev compensation in manual mode? I can't recall.

10-21-2020, 06:38 AM	#5
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,219	Originally posted by UncleVanya Can you use ev compensation in manual mode? I can't recall. On the K1 yes you can, but I don't think this is what the OP is asking. OP....please correct me if I am wrong

10-21-2020, 08:26 AM	#7
acoufap Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Munich, Germany Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,191	On the K-1 in M mode you can't use EV (exposure compensation) or I should better say you can change EV but without any effect. You simply have to go up or down with exposure time. If you use an A lens (A, FA, DFA), you can see the effect of this up or down on the display and in the histogram. If you go up and down using EV you won't recognise any effect. If you use an M lens like a M1.7/50 you even don't see an effect on the display when going up or down with exposure time. Funny thing is that the K-5 behaves different. It simulates up and down for an M lens on the display when using exposure compensation.

10-21-2020, 08:37 AM	#8
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by acoufap On the K-1 in M mode you can't use EV (exposure compensation) or I should better say you can change EV but without any effect. EC should work in M mode. As for lens type...OP says it is a shift lens. Those almost always have preset or fully manual apertures. Steve

10-21-2020, 09:04 AM	#9
dms Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: New York, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,192	Seems unlikely and you say nothing about flashing error message, but is "use of aperture ring" enabled?

10-21-2020, 09:13 AM	#10
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,219	Originally posted by acoufap On the K-1 in M mode you can't use EV (exposure compensation) or I should better say you can change EV but without any effect. That is not correct. Whatever lens you use (even M or K lenses) EC will have an effect with the K1 in Manual mode. Dial in +5 EC and press the green button or use the DOF preview lever method to centre the exposure meter, and you will have an overexposed shot by 5 stops.

10-21-2020, 10:53 AM	#11
acoufap Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Munich, Germany Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,191	Originally posted by pschlute That is not correct. Whatever lens you use (even M or K lenses) EC will have an effect with the K1 in Manual mode. Dial in +5 EC and press the green button or use the DOF preview lever method to centre the exposure meter, and you will have an overexposed shot by 5 stops. Now that you said I'm not correct, I just tried it instantly again. Result from a few minutes ago: K-1 and M1.7/50, M Exposure Mode - Green button + 5 EV comp delivers the same image as green button without EV comp. Believe it or not. If I reduce Exposure Time I get an underexposed image, if I put 5 stops on top I get it overexposed. That's how it should work. So maybe our K-1's are different? Or there is a parameter that makes it work this or that way?! How knows. I just reported how my K-1 behaves. The important thing is that everyone knows his own kit, so that it works how he/she expects. Testing by ourselves is essential and helps to learn.

10-21-2020, 11:47 AM	#12
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,219	Originally posted by acoufap Now that you said I'm not correct, I just tried it instantly again. Result from a few minutes ago: K-1 and M1.7/50, M Exposure Mode - Green button + 5 EV comp delivers the same image as green button without EV comp. Believe it or not. If I reduce Exposure Time I get an underexposed image, if I put 5 stops on top I get it overexposed. That's how it should work. So maybe our K-1's are different? Or there is a parameter that makes it work this or that way?! How knows. I just reported how my K-1 behaves. The important thing is that everyone knows his own kit, so that it works how he/she expects. Testing by ourselves is essential and helps to learn. Make sure you do not have auto EV compensation turned on. I too tried the K1 with a M series lens. Green button gives 1/250. Change EC compensation to +5 and green button gives me 1/10 What firmware are you on ?

10-21-2020, 11:57 AM - 1 Like	#13
acoufap Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Munich, Germany Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,191	Originally posted by pschlute auto EV compensation Checked it - Auto EV compensation is Off (Menu C-1.4).

10-21-2020, 12:54 PM	#15
acoufap Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Munich, Germany Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,191	Originally posted by pschlute I think I may have the answer. If you select EC using the button on the top of camera (and rear wheel to set) the green button has a function to return the EC to zero. So you need to press EC button.....turn wheel....press EC button again to come out of EC mode.....press green button to meter. Funnily enough, if you use the top dials (function and setting) instead of the EC button to set your EC setting, the green button has no re-set to zero function. So what you found in the end is, that if you want to use EC on the K-1 with an M lens you have to commit the EC entry (+/- button plus back dial adjustment for EC) using the green button. Ok, this I didn't know until now. Interesting, thanks! - Tried it and learned something.