low light

**pentaxus** · 11-01-2020, 06:59 PM

I vote with hcc. An f/1.4 lens is the way to go. It is the best way to deal with fewer photons.

C_Jones · 11-01-2020, 07:20 PM

If attempting to use F/2.8 for landscape shots you will not get detail that you otherwise would with a higher number F stop. For example, if you tried a mode such as TAV it would require you to only set the F stop and the shutter speed, and it would decide the ISO for you automatically. For a sample scenario, let's say you are out in the woods using TAV mode without a tripod, and you see a well lit waterfall in an open rock slab area. If you wanted to have depth you could try F/11 or F/13 to get a reasonable amount of depth and a shutter speed of 400 to catch the waterfall action. The TAV mode would automatically set the ISO. If you had a tripod and wanted a more detailed shot of the same scene with some smooth blurring of the waterfall, you could set your F stop to F/16 or F/18 and decrease the shutter speed. Decreasng the shutter speed would allow enough light into the camera to help compensate for the higher number F stop being used. It would also help provide a reasonable ISO for the shot while still using TAV mode, since the ISO is set automatically depending on what F stop and shutter speed being used.

So that is just a couple of sample situations. If you used just the Auto mode you mentioned, the results may be unpredictable in quite a bit of instances. TAV is a semi-auto mode, but you have control of two of the three settings being used (shutter speed and F stop) while the camera automatically decides the ISO. TAV is a valuable mode and I use it in situations when I am on the go such as shooting birds in flight. It may be a mode that you could learn and use for hands on experience for on the go shooting. For other shooting where Manual mode is extremely useful or necessary, for example when shooting landscape on a tripod, you may want to learn how to use it by knowing the definitions of ISO, shutter speed, and F stop (aperture) and applying those settings while using Manual mode. Hands on use will reveal to you how it functions and how to attain results using all Manual settings.

The lens I use for landscape is a Pentax 16-85 and I get excellent results shooting with it. If you want detail in your shots, all you require is setting your aperture for proper depth and if a tripod is required, you can resort to one for lower light circumstances.

vector · 11-01-2020, 08:53 PM - **1 Like**

Yeah, the only thing I can think to add here is that if you want better photos you have to make the time to get them. When I hike with my family I am always behind... I stop to photograph and eventually my wife stops for a break with the kids and waits for me to catch up. I often lug a tripod along so I can get those pictures in low light and have them come out the way I want. Good photos take work and time.

**DWS1** · 11-02-2020, 08:57 AM

I found agreeing at the start helps. Is this a hiking trip we want to take some photos on, or is this a photo trip we have to hike on?

35mmfilmfan · 11-02-2020, 11:08 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by vector

<snip>
I stop to photograph and eventually my wife stops for a break with the kids and waits for me to catch up. I often lug a tripod along so I can get those pictures in low light and have them come out the way I want. Good photos take work and time.

Let me get this straight - you have kids, yet you carry the tripod ? Hmmmm.

vector · 11-02-2020, 11:21 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by 35mmfilmfan

Let me get this straight - you have kids, yet you carry the tripod ? Hmmmm.

Haha, yes... even if I could get them start out carrying it, they aren't waiting around for me once I set it up. Good help is hard to find, even when you grow your own

Signguy · 11-02-2020, 03:33 PM

Thanks for all the replies! Little personal history. Started with a Canon EF, 1.8, 50mm lens and a Vivitar series 1 w/macro. Loved that camera! Semi-auto. Had 2 other digital P&S, both Nikon. The 5,000 took great photos, but waiting for auto focus to work drove me nuts. So I looked for a DSLR I could afford. Got my K52 and really do love it. I was hoping a new camera meant easier, but with all the digital capabilities the possibilities are endless - so much for easy. I do experiment in manual, but get so much better (quick) results in full auto mode. The mass/weight of this little guy gives it a nice feel and should help the hand holding, but it doesn't. Every shot is on a tripod. My biggest problem is that sometimes the light in the forest is a bit lacking. Some of the attached pix will give an idea of what I like shooting. Quite often (I use the screen exclusively for composition) I get what one author called The "blinkies" going on where there are red warning flashes on the screen. I keep the histogram centered or to the right as much as I can. What I don't get is that I try to get a shot and it goes through the whole focus routine but the shutter won't snap. I try again without a change and it works fine. I've taken many really nice pix with the sigma 17-50mm so to say I'm happy with this pair is an understatement! Even though the aperture is fixed at 2.8 the DOF is is amazing. Hope someone can help with this little problem. Thanks in advance!

Attached Images

View Picture EXIF

View Picture EXIF

pschlute · 11-02-2020, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by pentaxus

I vote with hcc. An f/1.4 lens is the way to go. It is the best way to deal with fewer photons.

For landscape ?

**mikesbike** · 11-02-2020, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by Brathahn

I would say you should try and spend some time getting to know your camera better, it can and will provide good pictures if you know how but taking a picture is no rocket sience!

I agree with this- except there is a lot more to it than shooting in the "AUTO" mode, which should be avoided. That mode disallows access to many adjustments and will choose its own Custom Image processing according to what it "thinks" is right for the circumstances of your scene, etc. You lose virtually all control, and control is a primary advantage of having this type of camera. If you want full automation by the camera for shutter speed and aperture for "correct" exposure, use the "P" (Program) mode instead, which allows access to all functions, including the exclusive Pentax Hyper System. In the mode, if you a not satisfied with the shutter speed or aperture the camera has chosen, simply enter the Hyper System by selecting your own choice simply by using the thumb or finger dial, without having to first turn the mode dial to Av or Tv. Then, to return to full "P" operation, a touch of the green button will instantly restore it.

But do learn how to use the Manual mode better, and take your own meter readings of a scene. Very important in taking advantage of the advanced nature of your equipment. Spot metering can be very valuable in dealing with tricky lighting that can fool your other metering types.

100,000 shutter actuations was the old standard for professional film cameras. The K-S2 is quite good for higher ISO performance with minimal noise- I'd say up to and including at least 3200. Of course, it depends on whether you are seeking the lowest noise possible.

I don't see any real problems with the images examples you have posted. I assume you hare using a tripod with such slow shutter speeds. To get certain effects, there is no better way.

C_Jones · 11-02-2020, 06:54 PM

Really, it is a choice for a user to use a mode that is automated or not, but if the user wants control over what the result will be, then using Manual or a mode which requires some input from the user will deliver more original/unique output. The decision is there for the user. Also, the use of a tripod will help in many low light landscape situations if needed, but again that is up to the user.

Learning what is necessary to effectively use Manual mode is a matter of learning what is involved as far as basic operation and terminology related to the operations you would like to perform. From there you can experiment and find what is the best routine for you to use effectively for your type of activity.

You can also utilize partially auto modes if you find them useful.

You mentioned that your lens is fixed at F/2.8. I would find that very limiting to approach landscape type shooting with, but of course if that is your preference that is up to you. I use the Pentax 16-85 lens on my Pentax K-3 II (aperture is not fixed), and I get excellent results. I also use a Sirui carbon fiber travel tripod when I need something light to use/carry for landscape shots.

So, it is what you want to approach/achieve as far as mode or equipment types you use that will fulfill your image quality.

Good luck.

**ehrwien** · 11-03-2020, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by Signguy

What I don't get is that I try to get a shot and it goes through the whole focus routine but the shutter won't snap. I try again without a change and it works fine.

I think this might be due to a camera setting in combination with the camera not confirming focus. The camera setting can be found in the C3 menu under point 17 "AF.S Setting" and I suppose it is set to "Focus priority" (see page 55 in the manual). That means the camera will not take a picture when it has not confirmed focus. There are several reasons why the camera cannot confirm focus, one of them can be that you are too close to the thing you're trying to focus on - that depends on the lens and the focal length. Another reason is that in order to achieve focus the camera needs an edge with a strong contrast, and when there is not much light the camera might struggle to see an edge that is there, or when there is enough light it could be that there is just no contrast edge for the camera to see, like a smooth surface. Then it depends what focal points you use - some can see vertical and horizontal edges, some only in one direction.

Originally posted by Signguy

Even though the aperture is fixed at 2.8 the DOF is is amazing

The aperture is not fixed in the way this sentence suggests to me how you think it does - you or the camera can change it from the wide open 2.8 down to f/22 fully stopped down. Fixed in this context means that the numerical aperture value does not change when you zoom in, disregarding whether you are wide open or stopped down a litte. You have the same value for collecting light when you start at 17mm as you do when zooming to 35mm, and it's the same value at 50mm as well. For the aperture value to stay the same, the physical aperture has to get bigger when you zoom in - because the aperture value is the result you get when dividing focal length by the diameter of the physical aperture opening - so for longer focal lengths the hole has to be bigger than for smaller focal lengths if you want to get the same resulting aperture value. Lenses with a fixed aperture like this differ from variable aperture lenses - the latter NOT changing the physical size when zooming, which in return makes the aperture value change when zooming.

And the EXIF info in the pictures you posted says they were taken with a K-S2. You writing K52 made me think you meant a K-5 II, but it's actually the letter S. Just in case you're having trouble finding information online.

C_Jones · 11-03-2020, 02:31 PM

The Sigma 17-70 aperture range is: Max. Aperture F2.8-4, Min. Aperture F22 according to its specs. With that range it is very capable of landscape shooting, especially using a tripod.

**mikesbike** · 11-03-2020, 03:56 PM

I believe the OP uses the Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8 constant-aperture lens. A very good zoom lens for low light use. I use one for this purpose fairly often. The Pentax Hyper System is the fastest-operating technology out there for switching between full automation and control on the fly, with all adjustments, etc. fully available to suit ones needs. This includes the Hyper Manual mode. The K-S2 also does quite well for delivering good image quality at higher ISO, and for being a full-featured entry-level model.

C_Jones · 11-04-2020, 02:49 PM

The specs say that the Sigma 17-50 for Pentax aperture range is f/2.8 to f/22. That provides the user with a wide variety of capability, depending on what is being approached. Obviously low light and landscape with tripod activity would be possible with it. It is just a matter of the user applying technique per what kind of image is needed.

**Michail_P** · 11-05-2020, 12:38 AM

Originally posted by pschlute

Leave the wife at home and take your tripod.

Yeah, pretty much the best solution. Tripod is a necessity for low light landscapes. You are benefiting from the low ISO. Set the aperture to 8-11 and you are gonna be very pleased. There’s also the pixel shift but it’s not every camera’s thing.

11-01-2020, 07:20 PM	#17
C_Jones Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,084	If attempting to use F/2.8 for landscape shots you will not get detail that you otherwise would with a higher number F stop. For example, if you tried a mode such as TAV it would require you to only set the F stop and the shutter speed, and it would decide the ISO for you automatically. For a sample scenario, let's say you are out in the woods using TAV mode without a tripod, and you see a well lit waterfall in an open rock slab area. If you wanted to have depth you could try F/11 or F/13 to get a reasonable amount of depth and a shutter speed of 400 to catch the waterfall action. The TAV mode would automatically set the ISO. If you had a tripod and wanted a more detailed shot of the same scene with some smooth blurring of the waterfall, you could set your F stop to F/16 or F/18 and decrease the shutter speed. Decreasng the shutter speed would allow enough light into the camera to help compensate for the higher number F stop being used. It would also help provide a reasonable ISO for the shot while still using TAV mode, since the ISO is set automatically depending on what F stop and shutter speed being used. So that is just a couple of sample situations. If you used just the Auto mode you mentioned, the results may be unpredictable in quite a bit of instances. TAV is a semi-auto mode, but you have control of two of the three settings being used (shutter speed and F stop) while the camera automatically decides the ISO. TAV is a valuable mode and I use it in situations when I am on the go such as shooting birds in flight. It may be a mode that you could learn and use for hands on experience for on the go shooting. For other shooting where Manual mode is extremely useful or necessary, for example when shooting landscape on a tripod, you may want to learn how to use it by knowing the definitions of ISO, shutter speed, and F stop (aperture) and applying those settings while using Manual mode. Hands on use will reveal to you how it functions and how to attain results using all Manual settings. The lens I use for landscape is a Pentax 16-85 and I get excellent results shooting with it. If you want detail in your shots, all you require is setting your aperture for proper depth and if a tripod is required, you can resort to one for lower light circumstances. Last edited by C_Jones; 11-01-2020 at 07:36 PM.

11-02-2020, 04:46 PM	#24
mikesbike Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Southeastern Michigan Posts: 4,549	Originally posted by Brathahn I would say you should try and spend some time getting to know your camera better, it can and will provide good pictures if you know how but taking a picture is no rocket sience! I agree with this- except there is a lot more to it than shooting in the "AUTO" mode, which should be avoided. That mode disallows access to many adjustments and will choose its own Custom Image processing according to what it "thinks" is right for the circumstances of your scene, etc. You lose virtually all control, and control is a primary advantage of having this type of camera. If you want full automation by the camera for shutter speed and aperture for "correct" exposure, use the "P" (Program) mode instead, which allows access to all functions, including the exclusive Pentax Hyper System. In the mode, if you a not satisfied with the shutter speed or aperture the camera has chosen, simply enter the Hyper System by selecting your own choice simply by using the thumb or finger dial, without having to first turn the mode dial to Av or Tv. Then, to return to full "P" operation, a touch of the green button will instantly restore it. But do learn how to use the Manual mode better, and take your own meter readings of a scene. Very important in taking advantage of the advanced nature of your equipment. Spot metering can be very valuable in dealing with tricky lighting that can fool your other metering types. 100,000 shutter actuations was the old standard for professional film cameras. The K-S2 is quite good for higher ISO performance with minimal noise- I'd say up to and including at least 3200. Of course, it depends on whether you are seeking the lowest noise possible. I don't see any real problems with the images examples you have posted. I assume you hare using a tripod with such slow shutter speeds. To get certain effects, there is no better way. Last edited by mikesbike; 11-02-2020 at 05:01 PM.

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11-01-2020, 06:59 PM	#16
pentaxus Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Central Coast, CA Posts: 1,313	I vote with hcc. An f/1.4 lens is the way to go. It is the best way to deal with fewer photons.

11-01-2020, 08:53 PM - 1 Like	#18
vector Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Location: Alberta Posts: 713	Yeah, the only thing I can think to add here is that if you want better photos you have to make the time to get them. When I hike with my family I am always behind... I stop to photograph and eventually my wife stops for a break with the kids and waits for me to catch up. I often lug a tripod along so I can get those pictures in low light and have them come out the way I want. Good photos take work and time.

11-02-2020, 08:57 AM	#19
DWS1 Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 1,169	I found agreeing at the start helps. Is this a hiking trip we want to take some photos on, or is this a photo trip we have to hike on?

11-02-2020, 11:08 AM - 1 Like	#20
35mmfilmfan Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 4,329	Originally posted by vector <snip> I stop to photograph and eventually my wife stops for a break with the kids and waits for me to catch up. I often lug a tripod along so I can get those pictures in low light and have them come out the way I want. Good photos take work and time. Let me get this straight - you have kids, yet you carry the tripod ? Hmmmm.

11-02-2020, 11:21 AM - 2 Likes	#21
vector Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Location: Alberta Posts: 713	Originally posted by 35mmfilmfan Let me get this straight - you have kids, yet you carry the tripod ? Hmmmm. Haha, yes... even if I could get them start out carrying it, they aren't waiting around for me once I set it up. Good help is hard to find, even when you grow your own

11-02-2020, 03:45 PM	#23
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,198	Originally posted by pentaxus I vote with hcc. An f/1.4 lens is the way to go. It is the best way to deal with fewer photons. For landscape ?

11-02-2020, 06:54 PM	#25
C_Jones Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,084	Really, it is a choice for a user to use a mode that is automated or not, but if the user wants control over what the result will be, then using Manual or a mode which requires some input from the user will deliver more original/unique output. The decision is there for the user. Also, the use of a tripod will help in many low light landscape situations if needed, but again that is up to the user. Learning what is necessary to effectively use Manual mode is a matter of learning what is involved as far as basic operation and terminology related to the operations you would like to perform. From there you can experiment and find what is the best routine for you to use effectively for your type of activity. You can also utilize partially auto modes if you find them useful. You mentioned that your lens is fixed at F/2.8. I would find that very limiting to approach landscape type shooting with, but of course if that is your preference that is up to you. I use the Pentax 16-85 lens on my Pentax K-3 II (aperture is not fixed), and I get excellent results. I also use a Sirui carbon fiber travel tripod when I need something light to use/carry for landscape shots. So, it is what you want to approach/achieve as far as mode or equipment types you use that will fulfill your image quality. Good luck.

11-03-2020, 11:40 AM	#26
ehrwien Site Supporter Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 2,782	Originally posted by Signguy What I don't get is that I try to get a shot and it goes through the whole focus routine but the shutter won't snap. I try again without a change and it works fine. I think this might be due to a camera setting in combination with the camera not confirming focus. The camera setting can be found in the C3 menu under point 17 "AF.S Setting" and I suppose it is set to "Focus priority" (see page 55 in the manual). That means the camera will not take a picture when it has not confirmed focus. There are several reasons why the camera cannot confirm focus, one of them can be that you are too close to the thing you're trying to focus on - that depends on the lens and the focal length. Another reason is that in order to achieve focus the camera needs an edge with a strong contrast, and when there is not much light the camera might struggle to see an edge that is there, or when there is enough light it could be that there is just no contrast edge for the camera to see, like a smooth surface. Then it depends what focal points you use - some can see vertical and horizontal edges, some only in one direction. Originally posted by Signguy Even though the aperture is fixed at 2.8 the DOF is is amazing The aperture is not fixed in the way this sentence suggests to me how you think it does - you or the camera can change it from the wide open 2.8 down to f/22 fully stopped down. Fixed in this context means that the numerical aperture value does not change when you zoom in, disregarding whether you are wide open or stopped down a litte. You have the same value for collecting light when you start at 17mm as you do when zooming to 35mm, and it's the same value at 50mm as well. For the aperture value to stay the same, the physical aperture has to get bigger when you zoom in - because the aperture value is the result you get when dividing focal length by the diameter of the physical aperture opening - so for longer focal lengths the hole has to be bigger than for smaller focal lengths if you want to get the same resulting aperture value. Lenses with a fixed aperture like this differ from variable aperture lenses - the latter NOT changing the physical size when zooming, which in return makes the aperture value change when zooming. And the EXIF info in the pictures you posted says they were taken with a K-S2. You writing K52 made me think you meant a K-5 II, but it's actually the letter S. Just in case you're having trouble finding information online.

11-03-2020, 02:31 PM	#27
C_Jones Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,084	The Sigma 17-70 aperture range is: Max. Aperture F2.8-4, Min. Aperture F22 according to its specs. With that range it is very capable of landscape shooting, especially using a tripod.

11-03-2020, 03:56 PM	#28
mikesbike Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Southeastern Michigan Posts: 4,549	I believe the OP uses the Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8 constant-aperture lens. A very good zoom lens for low light use. I use one for this purpose fairly often. The Pentax Hyper System is the fastest-operating technology out there for switching between full automation and control on the fly, with all adjustments, etc. fully available to suit ones needs. This includes the Hyper Manual mode. The K-S2 also does quite well for delivering good image quality at higher ISO, and for being a full-featured entry-level model.

11-04-2020, 02:49 PM	#29
C_Jones Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,084	The specs say that the Sigma 17-50 for Pentax aperture range is f/2.8 to f/22. That provides the user with a wide variety of capability, depending on what is being approached. Obviously low light and landscape with tripod activity would be possible with it. It is just a matter of the user applying technique per what kind of image is needed.

11-05-2020, 12:38 AM	#30
Michail_P Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Kalymnos Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,006	Originally posted by pschlute Leave the wife at home and take your tripod. Yeah, pretty much the best solution. Tripod is a necessity for low light landscapes. You are benefiting from the low ISO. Set the aperture to 8-11 and you are gonna be very pleased. There’s also the pixel shift but it’s not every camera’s thing.