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11-08-2020, 08:00 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by khurtwilliams Quote
[The P3] does not have aperture-priority auto-exposure. So I pan to upgrade to the Pentax P3n which does.
Are you sure about that? I have never owned either of them, but I have consulted Danilo Cecci's book on the history of Pentax SLR cameras. He says the P3n was just a facelift of the P3 and says "The controls and facilities of the P30n exactly matched those of the P3". (The P3 and P3n were called the P30 and P30n in Europe BTW.)
QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
When I look at Pentax bodies from that era I get annoyed. A body that sets ISO via DX coding only and on the P3n there's no EV compensation either?
That period of time, late 80's with the A3000/A3 and the P-Series, was a low point in Pentax history. They were aiming at the bottom end of the market. I understand that some photogs would cover the DX coding on the film cassettes with black insulation tape to allow them to set the film speed themselves.


Last edited by Lord Lucan; 11-08-2020 at 08:01 AM. Reason: Tpyo
11-08-2020, 09:38 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
I think I would go for a Super Program over the cameras like the P3 or P3N.
There are advantages to the Super Program when compared to the P3n, for sure. However, I almost always shoot (digital/film) in aperture-priority auto-exposure mode or manual mode. I plan to sell my P3 for whatever it's worth, and I can find a P3n for almost 1/3 price of a Super Program. I want to keep costs as low as possible.

The film photography hobby is secondary to the digital photography hobby, and I need to reserve my $$$ to pay for Fuji digital lenses.

The feedback here has been constructive in focusing my thoughts.

---------- Post added 11-08-20 at 11:47 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
Are you sure about that? I have never owned either of them, but I have consulted Danilo Cecci's book on the history of Pentax SLR cameras. He says the P3n was just a facelift of the P3 and says "The controls and facilities of the P30n exactly matched those of the P3". (The P3 and P3n were called the P30 and P30n in Europe BTW.)
According to the Pentax forum entry for the P3n, Pentaxians, camera-wiki, and KEH, the P3n added aperture-priority auto-exposure along with mostly cosmetic changes.

NOTE: I donít intend on shooting at anything other than box speed.
11-08-2020, 11:18 AM   #18
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hello friends - iīm here for the first time..... on friday I bought a new K1MII - without lenses..... I own already a lot of glas I used with K70 and K01.... and I got even two limited FA 31 and FA42..... what is your opinion (those who already have experience with K1M2 - what do you think I should have ..... With my K70 I have 3 good Zoom-lenses 16-50 / 18-135 and 55-300 but I guess, they are not really compatible with the nex full-frame... ?
11-08-2020, 11:34 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
Are you sure about that? I have never owned either of them, but I have consulted Danilo Cecci's book on the history of Pentax SLR cameras. He says the P3n was just a facelift of the P3 and says "The controls and facilities of the P30n exactly matched those of the P3". (The P3 and P3n were called the P30 and P30n in Europe BTW.)

That period of time, late 80's with the A3000/A3 and the P-Series, was a low point in Pentax history. They were aiming at the bottom end of the market. I understand that some photogs would cover the DX coding on the film cassettes with black insulation tape to allow them to set the film speed themselves.
My sister had a P3 and I had the P3n, so I know khurtwilliams is correct. I like the P3n, low point or not. Note that nothing sticks out and it's a great size.

11-08-2020, 01:06 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
It's not so much that the ring fails but rather the plastic posts that the two leaf springs for the "A" button failing. The springs are on plastic posts which are melted to form a sort of rivet head to hold the spring in place. This is a very common technique used in consumer electronics. If you look at the cover or door of a battery compartment odds are the electrical contacts are fastened with the very same method.

The problem is there is constant strain on the "rivet head" due to the nature of the spring and if the "head" is too thin in places it eventually breaks. Over the years I've had many battery powered devices (like portable reel-to-reel or cassette tape recorders) with battery contacts of the same design failing in the same manner. The fix is pretty much the same. If there is enough material, remelt the post and mush it down to form a new "head" and hope there is enough material for it to not break again. Or tap a hole for a screw or metal rivet that can be glued in.
Yep...and one might add that Pentax was building to industry standard at the time with the plastic lens bodies and parts. Minolta had been doing so for several years, even on the premium offerings, as had Canon and other makers. This was not a matter of taking the cheap route and I would add that 20+ years of service before age-related failure is not bad by most accounts.


Steve
11-08-2020, 06:24 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
Are you sure about that? I have never owned either of them, but I have consulted Danilo Cecci's book on the history of Pentax SLR cameras. He says the P3n was just a facelift of the P3 and says "The controls and facilities of the P30n exactly matched those of the P3". (The P3 and P3n were called the P30 and P30n in Europe BTW.)

That period of time, late 80's with the A3000/A3 and the P-Series, was a low point in Pentax history. They were aiming at the bottom end of the market. I understand that some photogs would cover the DX coding on the film cassettes with black insulation tape to allow them to set the film speed themselves.
The camera side of the database here on PF says that they default to 100 ISO. There is no manual ISO control and no EV compensation to fake the meter into playing like you have ISO control. The database could be wrong; it sounds awful and sad.
11-09-2020, 03:34 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
The camera side of the database here on PF says that they default to 100 ISO. There is no manual ISO control
I had heard of people putting black tape over the DX coding on the cassette, may have been mentioned as advice in a photo magazine. Sounds like it would not work on the P-Series, but there must have been other cameras that offered DX reading, but also ISO selection if the cassette did not have the markings, and over-ride even if it did. In those days I loaded my own film into plastic cassettes sold for the purpose that obviously had no markings.

---------- Post added 09-11-20 at 03:45 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by khurtwilliams Quote
NOTE: I donít intend on shooting at anything other than box speed.
The point is not to shoot at a different film speed for the sake of it, although some people do that and compensate later in the darkroom processing, for various reasons; it is called pulling or pushing the film speed.

The point here is to compensate for subject situations where the camera's exposure meter might get it wrong, bearing in mind that the meters in film days were not very sophisticated. The classic situation is a photo of someone against a very bright background, when they would end up as a silhouette because the camera reduces the exposure to get the background correct and therefore under-exposes the person.
11-21-2020, 11:26 AM   #23
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In my experience with the P3n, not having exposure compensation or manual film speed selection is not a big deal.

If this were the pre-digital era, and a P3n were my only way to capture an image, it would be a much bigger issue.

As someone for whom film is a toy, all the 35mm film I shoot is DX coded, and if I really want to over- or under-expose, the P3n has manual mode.

I will admit, I'm blessed with a large selection of bodies to shoot with, and I tend to fully manual when I go out, so the P3n mostly plays with my daughter.

But frankly, I think it would make a great street camera, maybe with an A24-50 or 35-70...

-Eric

11-21-2020, 11:41 AM   #24
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to get the details on the Pentax SLR cameras follow the link:


QuoteQuote:
We have the following film SLR resources on the site, in addition to the forum:

Autofocus Film SLRs - Pentax Film Cameras - Pentax Camera Database and Reviews - DSLR, Digital, and Legacy Cameras
Manual Focus Film SLRs - Pentax Film Cameras - Pentax Camera Database and Reviews - DSLR, Digital, and Legacy Cameras
M42 Screwmount Film SLRs - Pentax Film Cameras - Pentax Camera Database and Reviews - DSLR, Digital, and Legacy Cameras
M37 Screwmount SLRs - Pentax Film Cameras - Pentax Camera Database and Reviews - DSLR, Digital, and Legacy Cameras / / .
Read more at: Pentax Film SLR Databases and Resources - PentaxForums.com

be advised that the Super A that has been mentioned in other posts is also known as the Super Program -
QuoteQuote:
Description:
The Pentax Super Program (called Pentax Super A in some markets) is a versatile A-series film SLR featuring support for P, Tv, Av, and M exposure modes. You control the shutter speed using the push buttons on the camera, and the aperture via the aperture ring. Both can be set to auto (given you have an A-series lens or newer), which then brings the camera into Program mode. With M and K lenses Av and M exposure modes are available.

The Super Program was first Pentax with Program and Tv auto exposure and it also had TTL flash control, but even with the added electronics and mechanics the camera body is just about as compact as the original Pentax ME.

Disregarding the Pentax LX which is in a class by itself, the Pentax Super Program is the top model among all Pentax manual focus cameras when it comes to features and specifications.

Read more at: Pentax Super A / Super Program - Pentax Manual Focus Film SLRs - Pentax Camera Reviews and Specifications
11-23-2020, 08:18 AM   #25
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Used to be you could buy DX code stickers to put on film cassettes - either bulk loaded or if for some reason you wanted the push or pull the ASA/ISO on cameras without EV compensation.

I haven't checked if anybody still sells these.
11-23-2020, 10:53 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
Are you sure about that? I have never owned either of them, but I have consulted Danilo Cecci's book on the history of Pentax SLR cameras. He says the P3n was just a facelift of the P3 and says "The controls and facilities of the P30n exactly matched those of the P3". (The P3 and P3n were called the P30 and P30n in Europe BTW.)
I believe that a comparison of the specifications/manuals prove that assertion regarding facilities wrong. The P3n added both Av mode. The lack of EV comp is a common criticism, though having an EV lock button provides a very workable alternative for tricky metering situations. I can honestly say that in 38 years of using Av cameras similar to the P3n, I have made extensive use of AE lock (mostly for gray card readings), while only using EC a handful of times.*

QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
The camera side of the database here on PF says that they default to 100 ISO. There is no manual ISO control and no EV compensation to fake the meter into playing like you have ISO control. The database could be wrong; it sounds awful and sad.
You are correct. The tape hack was to emulate various DX patterns.


Steve

* Part of the reason might be that I tend to forget to turn the EC back to zero when moving to another subject.

Last edited by stevebrot; 11-24-2020 at 02:38 PM. Reason: struck out extra word
11-23-2020, 10:56 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
Used to be you could buy DX code stickers to put on film cassettes - either bulk loaded or if for some reason you wanted the push or pull the ASA/ISO on cameras without EV compensation.

I haven't checked if anybody still sells these.
The last time I checked, some place in the UK had them. Freestyle used to have them here in the U.S., but not anymore.


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11-24-2020, 01:21 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
I had heard of people putting black tape over the DX coding on the cassette, may have been mentioned as advice in a photo magazine. Sounds like it would not work on the P-Series, but there must have been other cameras that offered DX reading, but also ISO selection if the cassette did not have the markings, and over-ride even if it did. In those days I loaded my own film into plastic cassettes sold for the purpose that obviously had no markings.

---------- Post added 09-11-20 at 03:45 ----------


The point is not to shoot at a different film speed for the sake of it, although some people do that and compensate later in the darkroom processing, for various reasons; it is called pulling or pushing the film speed.

The point here is to compensate for subject situations where the camera's exposure meter might get it wrong, bearing in mind that the meters in film days were not very sophisticated. The classic situation is a photo of someone against a very bright background, when they would end up as a silhouette because the camera reduces the exposure to get the background correct and therefore under-exposes the person.
QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
The point here is to compensate for subject situations where the camera's exposure meter might get it wrong, bearing in mind that the meters in film days were not very sophisticated. The classic situation is a photo of someone against a very bright background when they would end up as a silhouette because the camera reduces the exposure to get the background correct and therefore under-exposes the person.
If the scene metering if off, I wouldn't know until the film was developed. But if I didn't trust the camera, application of the Sunny 16 technique and manual exposure would resolve the issue. Would it not?
11-24-2020, 01:47 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I believe that a comparison of the specifications/manuals proves that assertion regarding facilities wrong. The P3n added both Av mode. .
Are photos worth a thousand words?
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11-24-2020, 02:30 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by khurtwilliams Quote
Are photos worth a thousand words?
Not really. Av mode is not a setting on the dial, though it inferred by the P3 having a program mode while the P3n has an auto mode. I am just a previous owner and have a good memory.


Steve

* Also have PDF copies of both manuals on hard drive.

Last edited by stevebrot; 11-24-2020 at 02:36 PM.
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