K1000 low light metering

Lhorn · 11-25-2020, 11:27 PM

My K1000 has always metered accurately in good light situations in my opinion. I was playing around with it in a dimly lit room trying to use its meter to get settings to use on a meter less camera when I noticed some weird things such as dropping from 1/8 second to 1/4 of a second the needle jumps from near the middle to all the way to the bottom. Then dropping to 1/2 the needle jumps all the way to the top. Seems like 1/4 is the outlier. Anybody else get weird meter reading at very slow shutter speeds in low light?

Astro-Baby · 11-26-2020, 12:36 AM

The K1000 has a cDs cell so they are slow to react and also its meter range wont be that great...the meter may be at the limit of its range.

Not a Number · 11-26-2020, 12:42 AM

Doesn't the meter shut off at some point when there is insufficient light?

**robgski** · 11-26-2020, 04:12 AM

The K1000 is a great camera, I have owned three since taking up photography, but it was not designed for low-light metering, I recommend using a light meter for low-light metering.

From what I've read, seen, or discussed with experienced film photographers, a handheld light meter is an essential piece of kit. IT doesn't need to be an expensive one, either, but learn how to use whichever model you buy.

Lord Lucan · 11-26-2020, 07:32 AM

Don't expect too much from a K1000's light meter. Photocells were evolving rapidly around that time (late 70's), but the one used in the K1000 was basically 1960's tech and even the other K-Series cameras* had already moved on from that.

* Except the KM, of which the K1000 was a variation that replaced it.

stevebrot · 11-26-2020, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by Not a Number

Doesn't the meter shut off at some point when there is insufficient light?

This ^ ^ ^

There is also the matter of battery health. Alkaline cells perform badly near the end of their discharge curve. Silver oxide cells are highly recommended.

Steve

stevebrot · 11-26-2020, 09:27 AM

Low light sensitivity of the K1000 is 3 EV100, the same as the KM and open-aperture reading Spotmatic models. That translates to the full range of shutter speeds for that camera when mated to the Pentax-M 50/1.4 and shooting ISO 100 film. Increasing the ISO to 200 does not change the meter sensitivity, but does mean that a metered 1s exposure at f/1.7 will not be accurate. The meter will err towards underexposure.

Yes, the meter is CdS and yes, that means that it is less sensitive than SPD or GPD and less responsive than SPD. It does not mean that the meter cell is out-dated or will age poorly or is less reliable. As for your camera's behavior, the meter should shut itself off at about ~~1 EV100~~ 2 EV100.* It may also be erratic if the battery is low or if there are issues in the meter circuit. Try a new battery. If that does not work, a shop can evaluate the meter and tell you if it needs to be fixed.

Steve

* Drawn from memory. I will check the service manual to confirm. Edit: Is actually 2 EV100

tuco · 11-26-2020, 10:44 AM

At 3EV as your middle gray exposure with 400 film = f2.8 @ 1/4 second. Is that in the ballpark of your situation?

**Alex645** · 11-26-2020, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by Lhorn

My K1000 has always metered accurately in good light situations in my opinion. Anybody else get weird meter reading at very slow shutter speeds in low light?

Yes, this is normal with the K1000 and explained by many excellent previous responses.

I would just ignore the meter once it starts behaving this way in low light and then go to one of the following for metering:

a) The Black Cat Exposure guide. $20 for a piece of cardboard? Priceless.
Black Cat Exposure Guide (Light Meter) ? Film Photography Project Store

b) Sekonic L-208 Incident & Reflective light meter. $126. I would trust this over my classic Sekonic L-398A meter simply because the L-208 uses a button cell battery that boosts the low light sensitivity of the silicon photodiode.
Sekonic L-208 Twin Mate Meter 401-208 B&H Photo Video

c) Free light meter app for your smartphone. I use Lux.

Lhorn · 11-26-2020, 05:20 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by tuco

At 3EV as your middle gray exposure with 400 film = f2.8 @ 1/4 second. Is that in the ballpark of your situation?

I don’t understand the language you are speaking, LOL.
Thanks for the replies. I kinda figured that metering would be inaccurate in low light, I was just a bit worried that the meter jumped from the bottom to the top in slowing down from 1/4th to 1/2. I’ll have to try out the light meter apps. I’ve been waiting to get a proper modern light meter but this will be a cheap alternative.

Thanks.

tuco · 11-26-2020, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by Lhorn

I don’t understand the language you are speaking, LOL.
Thanks for the replies. I kinda figured that metering would be inaccurate in low light, I was just a bit worried that the meter jumped from the bottom to the top in slowing down from 1/4th to 1/2. I’ll have to try out the light meter apps. I’ve been waiting to get a proper modern light meter but this will be a cheap alternative.

Thanks.

Well, all you mention was a shutter speed with no aperture or film speed. So if your aperture was around f2.8 or f4, you had 400 film loaded and you were getting around that 1/4 shutter speed reading, then you might conclude that the metering jumping around was due to the very low light conditions you were in.

Lhorn · 11-26-2020, 07:01 PM

The iso was set to 400. The aperture I tried through the entire range including wide open (2.0 or so).

stevebrot · 11-26-2020, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by tuco

you might conclude that the metering jumping around was due to the very low light conditions you were in

Ya think!

Steve

**Alex645** · 11-27-2020, 02:33 AM

Originally posted by Lhorn

I’ll have to try out the light meter apps. I’ve been waiting to get a proper modern light meter but this will be a cheap alternative.

For your situation, I think a free or inexpensive (usually $3 or less) light meter app is more than sufficient for your situation.

Exceptions might include the need for a spot meter for shooting stage events or a flash meter or it's your profession and you're using it 5-6 days a week. At that point, something like the Sekonic Speedmaster is justified:
Sekonic Speedmaster L-858D-U Light Meter 401-858 B&H Photo Video

reh321 · 12-02-2020, 06:34 AM

Originally posted by Lhorn

The iso was set to 400. The aperture I tried through the entire range including wide open (2.0 or so).

If you are actually photographing in this light, your best move is “bracketing” - several apertures up and down from the meter reading. Since negative film is so ‘forgiving’ - it has high “latitude” - you don’t need to be exactly right in any case.

11-25-2020, 11:27 PM	#1
Lhorn Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 554	K1000 low light metering My K1000 has always metered accurately in good light situations in my opinion. I was playing around with it in a dimly lit room trying to use its meter to get settings to use on a meter less camera when I noticed some weird things such as dropping from 1/8 second to 1/4 of a second the needle jumps from near the middle to all the way to the bottom. Then dropping to 1/2 the needle jumps all the way to the top. Seems like 1/4 is the outlier. Anybody else get weird meter reading at very slow shutter speeds in low light?

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11-26-2020, 12:36 AM	#2
Astro-Baby Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Reigate, Surrey Posts: 764	The K1000 has a cDs cell so they are slow to react and also its meter range wont be that great...the meter may be at the limit of its range.

11-26-2020, 12:42 AM	#3
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Doesn't the meter shut off at some point when there is insufficient light?

11-26-2020, 04:12 AM	#4
robgski Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Shenandoah Valley, Virginia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,817	The K1000 is a great camera, I have owned three since taking up photography, but it was not designed for low-light metering, I recommend using a light meter for low-light metering. From what I've read, seen, or discussed with experienced film photographers, a handheld light meter is an essential piece of kit. IT doesn't need to be an expensive one, either, but learn how to use whichever model you buy.

11-26-2020, 07:32 AM	#5
Lord Lucan Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: South Wales Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,978	Don't expect too much from a K1000's light meter. Photocells were evolving rapidly around that time (late 70's), but the one used in the K1000 was basically 1960's tech and even the other K-Series cameras* had already moved on from that. * Except the KM, of which the K1000 was a variation that replaced it.

11-26-2020, 09:01 AM	#6
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Not a Number Doesn't the meter shut off at some point when there is insufficient light? This ^ ^ ^ There is also the matter of battery health. Alkaline cells perform badly near the end of their discharge curve. Silver oxide cells are highly recommended. Steve

11-26-2020, 09:27 AM	#7
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Low light sensitivity of the K1000 is 3 EV100, the same as the KM and open-aperture reading Spotmatic models. That translates to the full range of shutter speeds for that camera when mated to the Pentax-M 50/1.4 and shooting ISO 100 film. Increasing the ISO to 200 does not change the meter sensitivity, but does mean that a metered 1s exposure at f/1.7 will not be accurate. The meter will err towards underexposure. Yes, the meter is CdS and yes, that means that it is less sensitive than SPD or GPD and less responsive than SPD. It does not mean that the meter cell is out-dated or will age poorly or is less reliable. As for your camera's behavior, the meter should shut itself off at about ~~1 EV100~~ 2 EV100.* It may also be erratic if the battery is low or if there are issues in the meter circuit. Try a new battery. If that does not work, a shop can evaluate the meter and tell you if it needs to be fixed. Steve * Drawn from memory. I will check the service manual to confirm. Edit: Is actually 2 EV100

11-26-2020, 10:44 AM	#8
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,030	At 3EV as your middle gray exposure with 400 film = f2.8 @ 1/4 second. Is that in the ballpark of your situation?

11-26-2020, 01:00 PM	#9
Alex645 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Kaneohe, HI Photos: Albums Posts: 3,527	Originally posted by Lhorn My K1000 has always metered accurately in good light situations in my opinion. Anybody else get weird meter reading at very slow shutter speeds in low light? Yes, this is normal with the K1000 and explained by many excellent previous responses. I would just ignore the meter once it starts behaving this way in low light and then go to one of the following for metering: a) The Black Cat Exposure guide. $20 for a piece of cardboard? Priceless. Black Cat Exposure Guide (Light Meter) ? Film Photography Project Store b) Sekonic L-208 Incident & Reflective light meter. $126. I would trust this over my classic Sekonic L-398A meter simply because the L-208 uses a button cell battery that boosts the low light sensitivity of the silicon photodiode. Sekonic L-208 Twin Mate Meter 401-208 B&H Photo Video c) Free light meter app for your smartphone. I use Lux.

11-26-2020, 05:20 PM - 1 Like	#10
Lhorn Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 554 Original Poster	Originally posted by tuco At 3EV as your middle gray exposure with 400 film = f2.8 @ 1/4 second. Is that in the ballpark of your situation? I don’t understand the language you are speaking, LOL. Thanks for the replies. I kinda figured that metering would be inaccurate in low light, I was just a bit worried that the meter jumped from the bottom to the top in slowing down from 1/4th to 1/2. I’ll have to try out the light meter apps. I’ve been waiting to get a proper modern light meter but this will be a cheap alternative. Thanks.

11-26-2020, 05:53 PM	#11
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,030	Originally posted by Lhorn I don’t understand the language you are speaking, LOL. Thanks for the replies. I kinda figured that metering would be inaccurate in low light, I was just a bit worried that the meter jumped from the bottom to the top in slowing down from 1/4th to 1/2. I’ll have to try out the light meter apps. I’ve been waiting to get a proper modern light meter but this will be a cheap alternative. Thanks. Well, all you mention was a shutter speed with no aperture or film speed. So if your aperture was around f2.8 or f4, you had 400 film loaded and you were getting around that 1/4 shutter speed reading, then you might conclude that the metering jumping around was due to the very low light conditions you were in.

11-26-2020, 07:01 PM	#12
Lhorn Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 554 Original Poster	The iso was set to 400. The aperture I tried through the entire range including wide open (2.0 or so).

11-26-2020, 08:08 PM	#13
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by tuco you might conclude that the metering jumping around was due to the very low light conditions you were in Ya think! Steve

11-27-2020, 02:33 AM	#14
Alex645 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Kaneohe, HI Photos: Albums Posts: 3,527	Originally posted by Lhorn I’ll have to try out the light meter apps. I’ve been waiting to get a proper modern light meter but this will be a cheap alternative. For your situation, I think a free or inexpensive (usually $3 or less) light meter app is more than sufficient for your situation. Exceptions might include the need for a spot meter for shooting stage events or a flash meter or it's your profession and you're using it 5-6 days a week. At that point, something like the Sekonic Speedmaster is justified: Sekonic Speedmaster L-858D-U Light Meter 401-858 B&H Photo Video

12-02-2020, 06:34 AM	#15
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,185	Originally posted by Lhorn The iso was set to 400. The aperture I tried through the entire range including wide open (2.0 or so). If you are actually photographing in this light, your best move is “bracketing” - several apertures up and down from the meter reading. Since negative film is so ‘forgiving’ - it has high “latitude” - you don’t need to be exactly right in any case.