Vintage lenses issues with K5

jush501 · 11-29-2020, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by Serkevan

Anything over 100% viewing will be fuzzy, keep that in mind! The last couple levels of zoom are beyond pixel level if I remember correctly.

Thank you, So 100% equal to what in Pentax magnification?

stevebrot · 11-29-2020, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by jush501

Thank you, So 100% equal to what in Pentax magnification?

With K-30 and newer bodies, the camera makes it easy (OK in live view, first click in instant review and playback). On the K-5, you will have to do the math based on horizontal pixel count on the sensor vs. same on the rear display. The magnification where the number in the crop is the same as the display value is 1:1 pixel mapping. Edit: My vote is 8x.

BTW...which Helios 44 version are you using? It makes a difference.

Steve

jush501 · 11-29-2020, 02:28 PM

Thank you,
As for the 1`00%, i do not need an exact number, just a ballpark of magnification that would equal to 100%. is it X12? like I read in other posts? Any assistance and or direction would be great.
The Helios I am using is 44-2 58mm f2.

stevebrot · 11-29-2020, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by jush501

Thank you,
As for the 1`00%, i do not need an exact number, just a ballpark of magnification that would equal to 100%. is it X12? like I read in other posts? Any assistance and or direction would be great.
The Helios I am using is 44-2 58mm f2.

I would try 8X. Thanks for the Helios version. The 44-2 has the same flange distance as your other lenses (45.46mm), but probably does not engage the K-mount flange very well (may rock in mount and also potential for light leaks). It should be able to attain infinity focus.

I have been thinking about your problem and wonder if you are able focus reliably with K-mount lenses, either with manual focus or with auto focus. Also, how is focus at moderate distance, say 10 feet/3 meters?

Steve

**Serkevan** · 11-29-2020, 04:08 PM

The easiest way to check would be a computer and selecting "100%" on something like IrfanView, I think.

Not a Number · 11-29-2020, 04:33 PM

It's possible the threads on the adapter or some of the lenses are damaged. In your first photo posted there is a black stain in the threads just under the "P" in "PENTAX" on the adapter. Could just be some gunk keeping the lenses from screwing all the way.

jush501 · 11-29-2020, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

I would try 8X. Thanks for the Helios version. The 44-2 has the same flange distance as your other lenses (45.46mm), but probably does not engage the K-mount flange very well (may rock in mount and also potential for light leaks). It should be able to attain infinity focus.

I have been thinking about your problem and wonder if you are able focus reliably with K-mount lenses, either with manual focus or with auto focus. Also, how is focus at moderate distance, say 10 feet/3 meters?

Steve

All the M42 lenses are screwed in tight. no shaking. 10-20ft very sharp. SHARP.

---------- Post added 11-29-20 at 07:36 PM ----------

Originally posted by Not a Number

It's possible the threads on the adapter or some of the lenses are damaged. In your first photo posted there is a black stain in the threads just under the "P" in "PENTAX" on the adapter. Could just be some gunk keeping the lenses from screwing all the way.

All the M42 lenses are screwed in tight. no shaking. 10-20ft very sharp. SHARP.

stevebrot · 11-29-2020, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by jush501

All the M42 lenses are screwed in tight. no shaking. 10-20ft very sharp. SHARP.

The question is not whether the lenses are screwed in tight, but whether they are taking their backfocus at infinity (should be 45.46mm) distance from the camera flange or from something else. If it were just one lens, I would shrug my shoulders and say someone had messed with the lens infinity calibration at some point, but it's not.

OK...how about lenses other than your group of adapted M42 (e.g. K-mount), do they also have problems? The fact that you have three adapted lenses, none of which is able to attain infinity focus indicates either:

There is a problem with the adapter that affects all three lenses alike -- or --
There is a problem with your camera such that its flange focal distance is other than 45.46mm (would affect all compatible lenses equally) -- or ---
All three of your M42 lenses have had their infinity calibration modified to allow for use on a camera with less than 45.46mm flange focal distance.

Based on your post history, the K-5 is new to you. If you have access to a known-good K-mount lens, now would be a good time to test your camera and possibly request a return.

Steve

jush501 · 11-29-2020, 07:48 PM

Thank you for your reply.
I am getting a Sigma lens with K mount from a friend this week and will test it.

Not a Number · 11-30-2020, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by jush501

I am getting a Sigma lens with K mount from a friend this week and will test it.

Why not have your friend test a couple of your lenses on their K-mount body?

jush501 · 11-30-2020, 10:25 AM - **1 Like**

Good day to everyone.
Hurray, Hurray.
I fixed the issue with the 3 lenses. Helios 44-2, Rikenon 55mm f1.4 and Mamiya 55mm f1.4..
First, thank you for your assistance and support.
After trying many different thing to get to the point to be able to focus to infinity I finally was able to fix all three lenses.
Helios 44-2 removed 2mm ring from inside the rear lens
Mamiya 55mm f1.4- added1.5mm paper clip cut it to match the inside dim of the rear lens assembly. open a large paper clip and wrapped it around a cylinder about 1" in diameter. Clipped the access material and installed the ring inside the rear lens assembly. That screwed in the rear lens and achieved the infinity focus.
Rikenon 55mm f1.4- Same procedure as with the Mamiya(above) but used 1mm paper clip.

All recorded with K5 as manual lenses set to 55mm. (there is no 58mm option for manual lenses in the K5)

Thank you again for your support and assistance.

---------- Post added 11-30-20 at 12:52 PM ----------

Just to add- these are RAW files strait from the camera, no adjustment done.

stevebrot · 11-30-2020, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by jush501

After trying many different thing to get to the point to be able to focus to infinity I finally was able to fix all three lenses.
Helios 44-2 removed 2mm ring from inside the rear lens
Mamiya 55mm f1.4- added1.5mm paper clip cut it to match the inside dim of the rear lens assembly. open a large paper clip and wrapped it around a cylinder about 1" in diameter. Clipped the access material and installed the ring inside the rear lens assembly. That screwed in the rear lens and achieved the infinity focus.
Rikenon 55mm f1.4- Same procedure as with the Mamiya(above) but used 1mm paper clip.

None of those "fixes" should have been needed. All of the lenses should have worked with a proper adapter, assuming they had not been modified in the past. Is it safe to assume you might have had all three taken apart in the past?

Good luck...

Steve

jush501 · 11-30-2020, 01:39 PM

I purchased them from three different people. I suspect the infinity focus limiter screw was moved. The reason for it is that prior to adding the right size made up ring I could turn the focus ring to infinity, as I tuned it it came closer and closer to focus but not enough, and I could not turn it any more. So I figure if I could turn it by moving the focus limiter screw some what it would do the trick. I did not want to get involve with this "operation" . So the other option was to push the rear lens assembly a little closer to the sensor.

**photogem** · 11-30-2020, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by jush501

I purchased them from three different people

Then it is very unlikely, that 3 different people would have tampered with the lenses and their infinity adjustment.

Originally posted by jush501

So the other option was to push the rear lens assembly a little closer to the sensor.

This you can achieve with a very simple trick:
The orig. M42 adapter has a tiny spring (red arrow): This spring locks your adaptor within a certain position.
If you remove the spring (tiny screw) and then screw the adapter tightly onto your lens, the adaptor will not lock in the usual position but move further (about 1/4 turn)
and thus the rear of the lens assembly will be closer to the sensor:

jush501 · 11-30-2020, 09:20 PM

Thank you for your reply. I do not have an explanation as to what took place with those lenses.
As for the trick. I will have to try it.
Just to make sure I understood- I remove the little screw that hold the black spring, by doing this the spring comes off. I than, screw in the lens tight and that install the lens with the adapter onto the camera.
Question- To remove the lens will I have to remove it with the adapter together? or, just un screwing it and put another lens on, will the adapter stay in place while doing so?
Appreciate your assistance,

---------- Post added 11-30-20 at 11:22 PM ----------

Another question- I read many reviews about the adapter. I just want to make sure I will bed able to remove the adapter with out the spring and that it will not get stuck inside.

11-29-2020, 02:13 PM	#17
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by jush501 Thank you, So 100% equal to what in Pentax magnification? With K-30 and newer bodies, the camera makes it easy (OK in live view, first click in instant review and playback). On the K-5, you will have to do the math based on horizontal pixel count on the sensor vs. same on the rear display. The magnification where the number in the crop is the same as the display value is 1:1 pixel mapping. Edit: My vote is 8x. BTW...which Helios 44 version are you using? It makes a difference. Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 11-29-2020 at 02:38 PM.

11-29-2020, 07:34 PM	#23
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by jush501 All the M42 lenses are screwed in tight. no shaking. 10-20ft very sharp. SHARP. The question is not whether the lenses are screwed in tight, but whether they are taking their backfocus at infinity (should be 45.46mm) distance from the camera flange or from something else. If it were just one lens, I would shrug my shoulders and say someone had messed with the lens infinity calibration at some point, but it's not. OK...how about lenses other than your group of adapted M42 (e.g. K-mount), do they also have problems? The fact that you have three adapted lenses, none of which is able to attain infinity focus indicates either: There is a problem with the adapter that affects all three lenses alike -- or -- There is a problem with your camera such that its flange focal distance is other than 45.46mm (would affect all compatible lenses equally) -- or --- All three of your M42 lenses have had their infinity calibration modified to allow for use on a camera with less than 45.46mm flange focal distance. Based on your post history, the K-5 is new to you. If you have access to a known-good K-mount lens, now would be a good time to test your camera and possibly request a return. Steve

11-30-2020, 07:17 PM	#29
photogem Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 3,522	Originally posted by jush501 I purchased them from three different people Then it is very unlikely, that 3 different people would have tampered with the lenses and their infinity adjustment. Originally posted by jush501 So the other option was to push the rear lens assembly a little closer to the sensor. This you can achieve with a very simple trick: The orig. M42 adapter has a tiny spring (red arrow): This spring locks your adaptor within a certain position. If you remove the spring (tiny screw) and then screw the adapter tightly onto your lens, the adaptor will not lock in the usual position but move further (about 1/4 turn) and thus the rear of the lens assembly will be closer to the sensor: Attached Images Last edited by photogem; 12-02-2020 at 01:34 AM.

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11-29-2020, 01:47 PM	#16
jush501 New Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 20 Original Poster	Originally posted by Serkevan Anything over 100% viewing will be fuzzy, keep that in mind! The last couple levels of zoom are beyond pixel level if I remember correctly. Thank you, So 100% equal to what in Pentax magnification?

11-29-2020, 02:28 PM	#18
jush501 New Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 20 Original Poster	Thank you, As for the 1`00%, i do not need an exact number, just a ballpark of magnification that would equal to 100%. is it X12? like I read in other posts? Any assistance and or direction would be great. The Helios I am using is 44-2 58mm f2.

11-29-2020, 02:53 PM	#19
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by jush501 Thank you, As for the 1`00%, i do not need an exact number, just a ballpark of magnification that would equal to 100%. is it X12? like I read in other posts? Any assistance and or direction would be great. The Helios I am using is 44-2 58mm f2. I would try 8X. Thanks for the Helios version. The 44-2 has the same flange distance as your other lenses (45.46mm), but probably does not engage the K-mount flange very well (may rock in mount and also potential for light leaks). It should be able to attain infinity focus. I have been thinking about your problem and wonder if you are able focus reliably with K-mount lenses, either with manual focus or with auto focus. Also, how is focus at moderate distance, say 10 feet/3 meters? Steve

11-29-2020, 04:08 PM	#20
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	The easiest way to check would be a computer and selecting "100%" on something like IrfanView, I think.

11-29-2020, 04:33 PM	#21
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	It's possible the threads on the adapter or some of the lenses are damaged. In your first photo posted there is a black stain in the threads just under the "P" in "PENTAX" on the adapter. Could just be some gunk keeping the lenses from screwing all the way.

11-29-2020, 05:35 PM	#22
jush501 New Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 20 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot I would try 8X. Thanks for the Helios version. The 44-2 has the same flange distance as your other lenses (45.46mm), but probably does not engage the K-mount flange very well (may rock in mount and also potential for light leaks). It should be able to attain infinity focus. I have been thinking about your problem and wonder if you are able focus reliably with K-mount lenses, either with manual focus or with auto focus. Also, how is focus at moderate distance, say 10 feet/3 meters? Steve All the M42 lenses are screwed in tight. no shaking. 10-20ft very sharp. SHARP. ---------- Post added 11-29-20 at 07:36 PM ---------- Originally posted by Not a Number It's possible the threads on the adapter or some of the lenses are damaged. In your first photo posted there is a black stain in the threads just under the "P" in "PENTAX" on the adapter. Could just be some gunk keeping the lenses from screwing all the way. All the M42 lenses are screwed in tight. no shaking. 10-20ft very sharp. SHARP.

11-29-2020, 07:48 PM	#24
jush501 New Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 20 Original Poster	Thank you for your reply. I am getting a Sigma lens with K mount from a friend this week and will test it.

11-30-2020, 08:13 AM	#25
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Originally posted by jush501 I am getting a Sigma lens with K mount from a friend this week and will test it. Why not have your friend test a couple of your lenses on their K-mount body?

11-30-2020, 11:47 AM	#27
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by jush501 After trying many different thing to get to the point to be able to focus to infinity I finally was able to fix all three lenses. Helios 44-2 removed 2mm ring from inside the rear lens Mamiya 55mm f1.4- added1.5mm paper clip cut it to match the inside dim of the rear lens assembly. open a large paper clip and wrapped it around a cylinder about 1" in diameter. Clipped the access material and installed the ring inside the rear lens assembly. That screwed in the rear lens and achieved the infinity focus. Rikenon 55mm f1.4- Same procedure as with the Mamiya(above) but used 1mm paper clip. None of those "fixes" should have been needed. All of the lenses should have worked with a proper adapter, assuming they had not been modified in the past. Is it safe to assume you might have had all three taken apart in the past? Good luck... Steve

11-30-2020, 01:39 PM	#28
jush501 New Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 20 Original Poster	I purchased them from three different people. I suspect the infinity focus limiter screw was moved. The reason for it is that prior to adding the right size made up ring I could turn the focus ring to infinity, as I tuned it it came closer and closer to focus but not enough, and I could not turn it any more. So I figure if I could turn it by moving the focus limiter screw some what it would do the trick. I did not want to get involve with this "operation" . So the other option was to push the rear lens assembly a little closer to the sensor.

11-30-2020, 09:20 PM	#30
jush501 New Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 20 Original Poster	Thank you for your reply. I do not have an explanation as to what took place with those lenses. As for the trick. I will have to try it. Just to make sure I understood- I remove the little screw that hold the black spring, by doing this the spring comes off. I than, screw in the lens tight and that install the lens with the adapter onto the camera. Question- To remove the lens will I have to remove it with the adapter together? or, just un screwing it and put another lens on, will the adapter stay in place while doing so? Appreciate your assistance, ---------- Post added 11-30-20 at 11:22 PM ---------- Another question- I read many reviews about the adapter. I just want to make sure I will bed able to remove the adapter with out the spring and that it will not get stuck inside.