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12-25-2020, 03:36 PM   #1
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Helios 44-2 Mounting off with Spotmatic F?

So this isn't really a big deal as it seems to still focus to Infinity, but I recently got a Helios 44-2. It doesn't have the aperture pin or tab like some of the newer Takumars/M42 lenses. When I mount it on either of my Spotmatic F cameras the lens comes to a stop 90° off-center. So the red mark is facing the flash sync ports. This lens mounts perfectly fine on the old front plate from my original Spotmatic. It also mounts perfectly fine on my M42 adapter for my Sony and on my M42 Chinon SLR. This really isn't much of an issue, I'm just wondering if anyone has experienced this or knows why this would be? I have a Chinon 50 1.7 and a couple Takumars lenses and they all mount fine on the F, the Chinon, and the Sony adapter.

12-25-2020, 03:55 PM   #2
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It sounds like the lens may have been serviced and then reassembled slightly incorrectly. It's a while since I serviced a 44-2, and I don't recall how this 90 degree rotation might occur...
12-25-2020, 04:23 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
It sounds like the lens may have been serviced and then reassembled slightly incorrectly. It's a while since I serviced a 44-2, and I don't recall how this 90 degree rotation might occur...

My thoughts exactly. Does it focus to infinity,or past?


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12-25-2020, 06:55 PM   #4
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The Spotmatic F has full aperture metering coupling that may interfere with that lens.

12-25-2020, 10:44 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Duowing Quote
Helios 44-2 Mounting off with Spotmatic F?
Is this an M39 (Zenit) Helios 44-2 or M42? If M39, the problem may be with the adapter.

M42 pre-set Biotars have clearance problems on some M42 bodies due to having both an ample rear and a shield around rear element. The Helios 44-2, may share that characteristic. Since the SP F has a more constrained mirror box than earlier Spotmatic models, this may be reason for concern.

I suggest visually checking for clearance with shutter on B and the film door open:
  1. Adjust focus to closest distance and begin threading the lens into the mount, say two turns.
  2. Continue threading the lens on while looking through from the back (film door open). This is most easily done with the camera on tripod.
  3. As it comes to close to seating on the flange note check for points of possible interference.
  4. Once seated to the mount flange, focus slowly to infinity while monitoring the position of the rear element and any shields.
If there is any interference, it should be evident.


Steve
12-26-2020, 05:16 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Duowing Quote
seems to still focus to Infinity

QuoteOriginally posted by MikeMcE Quote
Does it focus to infinity
Are you asking for sample images?
12-26-2020, 09:55 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Breakfastographer Quote
Are you asking for sample images?
I think Mike was asking if the lens reaches its hard stop at actual infinity focus (as should be the case), or whether it goes beyond infinity focus...

12-26-2020, 09:58 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I think Mike was asking if the lens reaches its hard stop at actual infinity focus (as should be the case), or whether it goes beyond infinity focus...

Yep, sorry if any confusion.
If it focuses to infinity at the stop.


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12-28-2020, 01:38 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by MikeMcE Quote
Yep, sorry if any confusion.
If it focuses to infinity at the stop.


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Infinity focus and how the lens orients to the body when snugged to the mount face are independent of each other on most lenses. Assuming, of course, that the lens is snugged to the mount face. The concern I have here is that there is an outside chance that the focus ring may be binding against the mount face in a manner similar to some copies of the Helios 44-3 58/2.0. Some Helios 44-2 were made in the same Belarus factory (MMZ) as the offending Helios 44-3 copies and may share the same lens body that binds against the mount.

The factory icon for MMZ is as below:


From Alfred Klompf's Soviet lens logo page...LINK

Worst case is if the collar for the rear element is grinding against the edge of the mirror box on the SP F. I have a couple of lenses that are VERY close and almost too close for comfort on that camera.


Steve
12-28-2020, 03:08 PM   #10
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As far as I can tell it's not hitting, but I'll have to look closer. The lens does stop at Infinity and doesn't seem to go past. I've never been well versed in understanding focusing past infinity though. I'll try the bulb setting idea. I don't believe that it's using an adapter. The lens barrel says Helios 44-2 and it is the pre-set type with the aperture setting ring. The logo from my understanding is the Valdai logo. I was thinking that it has something to do with the lens being serviced. I'm just not sure why it seems to mount fine on other M42 mounts. I don't feel any resistance, but I will check again.
12-29-2020, 02:18 PM   #11
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Well I did a quick fitment test. I pulled the front plate off my under construction Spotmatic F to show how the lens mounts. It looks like everything clears. This is screwed in until tight. This is exactly how it mounts on my F that I've been actively using. I then mounted again to the loose front plate of the OG Spotmatic and screwed until tight and it sits as it should. I'm still not sure what the difference is. It does stop at the infinity mark as it should. I'm debating taking it apart and playing with it or possibly even trying to get another cheap one just to see if it mounts the same.
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12-29-2020, 04:27 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Duowing Quote
Well I did a quick fitment test. I pulled the front plate off my under construction Spotmatic F to show how the lens mounts. It looks like everything clears. This is screwed in until tight. This is exactly how it mounts on my F that I've been actively using. I then mounted again to the loose front plate of the OG Spotmatic and screwed until tight and it sits as it should. I'm still not sure what the difference is. It does stop at the infinity mark as it should. I'm debating taking it apart and playing with it or possibly even trying to get another cheap one just to see if it mounts the same.
That is truly bizarre. I have a fair number of M42 lenses (16+) with several being Soviet made and all mount to my SP F essentially the same (within 20 degrees or so) as to my SPII, SP, SV, Singlex TLS, Mamiya/Sekor 1000 DTL and Praktica Super TL3.


Steve
01-05-2021, 09:22 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Is this an M39 (Zenit) Helios 44-2 or M42? If M39, the problem may be with the adapter.

M42 pre-set Biotars have clearance problems on some M42 bodies due to having both an ample rear and a shield around rear element. The Helios 44-2, may share that characteristic. Since the SP F has a more constrained mirror box than earlier Spotmatic models, this may be reason for concern.

I suggest visually checking for clearance with shutter on B and the film door open:
  1. Adjust focus to closest distance and begin threading the lens into the mount, say two turns.
  2. Continue threading the lens on while looking through from the back (film door open). This is most easily done with the camera on tripod.
  3. As it comes to close to seating on the flange note check for points of possible interference.
  4. Once seated to the mount flange, focus slowly to infinity while monitoring the position of the rear element and any shields.
If there is any interference, it should be evident.


Steve
hi do you know how to assemble the aperture arm and springs on a Helios 44-4M
01-05-2021, 09:25 AM   #14
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helios 44-4m

hi does anyone know how to assemble the aperture arm and springs on this lens...
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01-05-2021, 10:31 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by cdavey06 Quote
hi do you know how to assemble the aperture arm and springs on a Helios 44-4M
Welcome to the Pentax Forums!

I have had mine apart, but don't remember the details. I have asked the mods to elevate your second post to its own thread so it will attract more attention. Good luck!


Steve
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