Pentax AF 160SA flash repair or fix

Lucas_1985 · 02-17-2021, 06:02 PM

Hello everyone.

I am new here, so I apologize in advance if I miss any information and also if I take a while to answer any posts.

I've recently came upon a Pentax AF 160SA flash unit, well, to be honest I bought it along with my new yet aged P30T. Or is it my old yet "this beauty was kept in a safe all these years" P30T. I'll post more on that later.

Anyway, it came with this flashgun, all nice and looking like new as well. Of course it didn't work but I made the most obvious inspection and found that one of the battery terminals showed signs of rust.

So I started there, beginning with the only screw there was (by the guide). Managed to open it with real care and cleaned the terminal as best I could, and Voilá it was working. Turned it on, heard the thin buzz it makes while charging, it took the six seconds the manual said it would and I got a lit "READY TEST" button.

Now the problem. Pressed the button and nothing happened. It remains lit, but no matter for how long I press it, the flash won't fire. Not even on the camera (which I do think it's obvious but had to be sure). It does recognize it though, the light is on in that visor and when I release the shutter, it goes off for a second just as if it were working properly.

So the next thing I thought was the capacitor was the problem (and I mean is the only thing I can think of since everything in there looks just manufactured). Checked its voltage, and it read 380 millivolts if I remember correctly.
Put it back together so I could leave it on for a while, and while looking for possible solutions (which, by the way, there are none) forty-five minutes to one hour went by. Took it apart again, and I had 168 volts in that capacitor, so I guess that's not the culprit.

Now I don't want to keep on going afraid of damaging something without proper advice.
I'd appreciate any insights anyone can give me on this subject.

Thank you.

**TwoUptons** · 02-17-2021, 06:25 PM

Sometimes the button is bad.

Will it fire if you short the terminals on the flash foot?

Of course, that might imply the camera is broken...

-Eric

Lucas_1985 · 02-17-2021, 07:07 PM

Hi Eric, thanks for the tip.
But the word SHORT makes me uneasy.

Now this rises a new question. I know the center pin is the one that fires the flash. What do the other two do? I take the two side plates on the flash foot guide are the ground, I guess.

Apart from this new inquiry, what exactly should I short? The three pins amongst themselves or the side plates too?

I really doubt it's the camera as it is practically new. It does not look 23 or more years old. (I will upload some pics as soon as I can).

**TwoUptons** · 02-17-2021, 08:10 PM - **1 Like**

Ha. Short the center pin and the side plate. I usually use a bent paperclip.

The other two let the flash and camera talk. Usually, the second pin implies a dedicated flash and the third ttl.

-Eric

Not a Number · 02-17-2021, 09:36 PM

The test button is either bad or you didn't put it back together properly. Test as suggested. The test button just "shorts" or closes the trigger circuit, same as "shorting" or closing the circuit with a paper clip.

Lucas_1985 · 02-17-2021, 11:02 PM

Negative on the test.

Ran it a couple of times just to be certain. It did not fire. I even bent the paper clip so that both ground plates would contact the center pin.

Regarding the other comment: everything was put together as it was. Not that I am the most organized fella but I get pretty nuts if I can't put things back as they were and today it was pretty calm, my other three or four personalities were all focused on this issue.

hahaha.

Now seriously, when I opened the casing I didn't need to take it much apart. Plenty of movement possible, tight but neat.

I do also believe it has something to do either with the test button or the center pin. Could it be that whichever spring load under the pin or pins, damaged the connection to the pin itself?

I've seen another post here, about the AF 160. Someone posted pics on how to remove the information chart on the back of the flash to expose a couple of screws. I didn't want to go there but I'll have no option if I want to visually inspect that button and pins.

If you have any alternatives, I'm all ears (and by ears I mean eyes). There's always a lesson to be learned. So let's learn.

stevebrot · 02-17-2021, 11:21 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Lucas_1985

Now this rises a new question. I know the center pin is the one that fires the flash. What do the other two do?

On the rear right is the "ready" contact. On the rear left is the "mode" contact. The two support the so-called analog dedication/TTL protocols.*

"Ready" signals that the flash is charged and, with your camera, the body responds by signaling ready in the viewfinder and setting the shutter to the X-sync speed. "Ready" serves as a general signal that a Pentax-dedicated flash is mounted, a role that continues on Pentax digital cameras.

With your flash, "Mode" signals whether the flash is in Manual or Program mode. If in program mode, the body responds by setting an aperture appropriate for the ASA/ISO film speed. With other flash and camera models, analog protocol TTL is also supported through the "Mode" contact as is flash confirmation. With analog TTL bodies, the quench signal is sent through the "Mode" contact.

Your camera manual details the behavior of your flash on your camera.

Steve

* Support for the analog TTL protocol continued in both flash and camera models until fairly recently with the *ist digital bodies and AF360FGZ/AF540FGZ (first versions). Analog dedication continues on current model Pentax digital bodies.

Last edited by stevebrot; 02-17-2021 at 11:30 PM.

stevebrot · 02-18-2021, 10:53 AM

BTW...

Welcome to the Pentax Forums!

Steve

Lucas_1985 · 02-18-2021, 12:08 PM

Thanks Steve.
Thanks for the welcoming information provided.

And thanks to both Eric and 'Not a Number' (posts above) for the tips and reasurances.

Here are a few pics of the AF 160SA and the P30T (None from the inside, sorry) I'll get those uploaded later. Now I'm a bit busy, also minding the Perseverance Rover landing on Mars.

**DonV** · 02-22-2021, 08:48 PM - **1 Like**

I would not spend much time on that flash, used ones online start at $10.
So unless you just want to experiment and enjoy the challenge; I'd buy another or a later/better model- depending on what you need or want.

I have an AF 400 T with the same problem, charges and the light shows charge; but the test button nor shorting the trigger contacts will fire it.
Maybe the trigger circuit or maybe the flash tube? I'm not inclined to dig into it, a fully charged capacitor will "hurt" if you discharge it by accidental contact !

Lord Lucan · 02-23-2021, 07:19 AM

I'm sorry to sound negative, but don't waste your time. There are working ones on Ebay at almost free prices, under £10 anyway. Ebay has tons of flash units of that era, it's a buyer's market. People don't want them any more because most modern cameras have built-in flash, and digital cameras can go to very high ISO sensitivity. I have been trying to sell a good flash unit for months, but have given up - probably I'll throw it away. If you were not in Peru I'd send it to you.

Moreover, the AF160 is a very basic low power flash unit, cheap in its day, and (with a film camera) only just about adequate for close portraits and small groups. If I were you I would get something a bit better, even one step up to an AF200 or better still an AF280. Or any of the numerous others by Sunpak, Vivitar etc because they are just as good and don't carry the premium price of the "Pentax" name. In fact I understand the Pentax flashes of that era were made by Sunpak anyway.

stevebrot · 02-23-2021, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by Lord Lucan

even one step up to an AF200

I assume you mean the AF200T? The AF200S and AF200SA are only a small step up from the AF160SA (GN 16 to GN 20).

Steve

Lord Lucan · 02-23-2021, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

I assume you mean the AF200T? The AF200S and AF200SA are only a small step up from the AF160SA

Yes, all of the AF200 's have a Guide Number of 20 according to the reviews here (and as implied by the name). I was really thinking of alternatives to the AF160 for the OP but I agree it is only a slight improvement. I got interested and have just looked at the reviews, and several complain about the low power of both the AF160 's and the AF200 's. Some also complain about the lack of tilt/swivel, but that needs extra power which these units don't have. A GN of 28 (like the AF280T) is about the minumum for tilt/swivel to be used with any degree of comfort on a film camera.

Incidentally, the latest reviewer of a AF200T paid only $1.50 for his, and I would not pay more than $5 (or UK equiv) for any 160 or 200 (if I wanted one). Stretching to $15-$20 opens up a wide choice of more powerful film-era flash units on Ebay if you include Sunpak, Vivitar, Starblitz, Cobra etc. The OP might want to narrow it down to ones with Pentax dedication though, and should watch out for the trigger voltage if he ever wants to put it on a modern camera.

**TwoUptons** · 02-24-2021, 07:47 AM

The 16/160 flashes are really handy because of their small size.

While I think the AF280T is one of the greatest flashes ever made, my film cameras usually travel with a 160 for fill.

But yeah, they’re cheap... and probably not worth paying to fix...

-Eric

stevebrot · 02-24-2021, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by TwoUptons

While I think the AF280T is one of the greatest flashes ever made, my film cameras usually travel with a 160 for fill.

I totally agree with both points and why I keep a Vivitar 2600 in the "jail" box (never use on K-3) for casual and fill use with the film cameras. It works with hot shoes and is "short-safe" with cold shoes* when used with PC sync, has adequate power (GN 18(m)), dual range auto with manual, and is quite compact. What's not to like, eh?

Steve

* My Yongnuo speedlight requires insulation for its foot on most on-camera cold shoes.

02-17-2021, 06:02 PM	#1
Lucas_1985 New Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Currently Lima, Peru Posts: 4	Pentax AF 160SA flash repair or fix Hello everyone. I am new here, so I apologize in advance if I miss any information and also if I take a while to answer any posts. I've recently came upon a Pentax AF 160SA flash unit, well, to be honest I bought it along with my new yet aged P30T. Or is it my old yet "this beauty was kept in a safe all these years" P30T. I'll post more on that later. Anyway, it came with this flashgun, all nice and looking like new as well. Of course it didn't work but I made the most obvious inspection and found that one of the battery terminals showed signs of rust. So I started there, beginning with the only screw there was (by the guide). Managed to open it with real care and cleaned the terminal as best I could, and Voilá it was working. Turned it on, heard the thin buzz it makes while charging, it took the six seconds the manual said it would and I got a lit "READY TEST" button. Now the problem. Pressed the button and nothing happened. It remains lit, but no matter for how long I press it, the flash won't fire. Not even on the camera (which I do think it's obvious but had to be sure). It does recognize it though, the light is on in that visor and when I release the shutter, it goes off for a second just as if it were working properly. So the next thing I thought was the capacitor was the problem (and I mean is the only thing I can think of since everything in there looks just manufactured). Checked its voltage, and it read 380 millivolts if I remember correctly. Put it back together so I could leave it on for a while, and while looking for possible solutions (which, by the way, there are none) forty-five minutes to one hour went by. Took it apart again, and I had 168 volts in that capacitor, so I guess that's not the culprit. Now I don't want to keep on going afraid of damaging something without proper advice. I'd appreciate any insights anyone can give me on this subject. Thank you.

02-23-2021, 12:59 PM	#13
Lord Lucan Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: South Wales Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,963	Originally posted by stevebrot I assume you mean the AF200T? The AF200S and AF200SA are only a small step up from the AF160SA Yes, all of the AF200 's have a Guide Number of 20 according to the reviews here (and as implied by the name). I was really thinking of alternatives to the AF160 for the OP but I agree it is only a slight improvement. I got interested and have just looked at the reviews, and several complain about the low power of both the AF160 's and the AF200 's. Some also complain about the lack of tilt/swivel, but that needs extra power which these units don't have. A GN of 28 (like the AF280T) is about the minumum for tilt/swivel to be used with any degree of comfort on a film camera. Incidentally, the latest reviewer of a AF200T paid only $1.50 for his, and I would not pay more than $5 (or UK equiv) for any 160 or 200 (if I wanted one). Stretching to $15-$20 opens up a wide choice of more powerful film-era flash units on Ebay if you include Sunpak, Vivitar, Starblitz, Cobra etc. The OP might want to narrow it down to ones with Pentax dedication though, and should watch out for the trigger voltage if he ever wants to put it on a modern camera. Last edited by Lord Lucan; 02-23-2021 at 01:05 PM.

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02-17-2021, 06:25 PM	#2
TwoUptons Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,214	Sometimes the button is bad. Will it fire if you short the terminals on the flash foot? Of course, that might imply the camera is broken... -Eric

02-17-2021, 07:07 PM	#3
Lucas_1985 New Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Currently Lima, Peru Posts: 4 Original Poster	Hi Eric, thanks for the tip. But the word SHORT makes me uneasy. Now this rises a new question. I know the center pin is the one that fires the flash. What do the other two do? I take the two side plates on the flash foot guide are the ground, I guess. Apart from this new inquiry, what exactly should I short? The three pins amongst themselves or the side plates too? I really doubt it's the camera as it is practically new. It does not look 23 or more years old. (I will upload some pics as soon as I can).

02-17-2021, 08:10 PM - 1 Like	#4
TwoUptons Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,214	Ha. Short the center pin and the side plate. I usually use a bent paperclip. The other two let the flash and camera talk. Usually, the second pin implies a dedicated flash and the third ttl. -Eric

02-17-2021, 09:36 PM	#5
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	The test button is either bad or you didn't put it back together properly. Test as suggested. The test button just "shorts" or closes the trigger circuit, same as "shorting" or closing the circuit with a paper clip.

02-17-2021, 11:02 PM	#6
Lucas_1985 New Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Currently Lima, Peru Posts: 4 Original Poster	Negative on the test. Ran it a couple of times just to be certain. It did not fire. I even bent the paper clip so that both ground plates would contact the center pin. Regarding the other comment: everything was put together as it was. Not that I am the most organized fella but I get pretty nuts if I can't put things back as they were and today it was pretty calm, my other three or four personalities were all focused on this issue. hahaha. Now seriously, when I opened the casing I didn't need to take it much apart. Plenty of movement possible, tight but neat. I do also believe it has something to do either with the test button or the center pin. Could it be that whichever spring load under the pin or pins, damaged the connection to the pin itself? I've seen another post here, about the AF 160. Someone posted pics on how to remove the information chart on the back of the flash to expose a couple of screws. I didn't want to go there but I'll have no option if I want to visually inspect that button and pins. If you have any alternatives, I'm all ears (and by ears I mean eyes). There's always a lesson to be learned. So let's learn.

02-17-2021, 11:21 PM - 1 Like	#7
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Lucas_1985 Now this rises a new question. I know the center pin is the one that fires the flash. What do the other two do? On the rear right is the "ready" contact. On the rear left is the "mode" contact. The two support the so-called analog dedication/TTL protocols.* "Ready" signals that the flash is charged and, with your camera, the body responds by signaling ready in the viewfinder and setting the shutter to the X-sync speed. "Ready" serves as a general signal that a Pentax-dedicated flash is mounted, a role that continues on Pentax digital cameras. With your flash, "Mode" signals whether the flash is in Manual or Program mode. If in program mode, the body responds by setting an aperture appropriate for the ASA/ISO film speed. With other flash and camera models, analog protocol TTL is also supported through the "Mode" contact as is flash confirmation. With analog TTL bodies, the quench signal is sent through the "Mode" contact. Your camera manual details the behavior of your flash on your camera. Steve * Support for the analog TTL protocol continued in both flash and camera models until fairly recently with the ist digital bodies and AF360FGZ/AF540FGZ (first versions). Analog dedication continues on current model Pentax digital bodies. Last edited by stevebrot; 02-17-2021 at 11:30 PM.*

02-18-2021, 10:53 AM	#8
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	BTW... Welcome to the Pentax Forums! Steve

02-22-2021, 08:48 PM - 1 Like	#10
DonV Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Near Charlotte NC Photos: Albums Posts: 693	I would not spend much time on that flash, used ones online start at $10. So unless you just want to experiment and enjoy the challenge; I'd buy another or a later/better model- depending on what you need or want. I have an AF 400 T with the same problem, charges and the light shows charge; but the test button nor shorting the trigger contacts will fire it. Maybe the trigger circuit or maybe the flash tube? I'm not inclined to dig into it, a fully charged capacitor will "hurt" if you discharge it by accidental contact !

02-23-2021, 07:19 AM	#11
Lord Lucan Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: South Wales Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,963	I'm sorry to sound negative, but don't waste your time. There are working ones on Ebay at almost free prices, under £10 anyway. Ebay has tons of flash units of that era, it's a buyer's market. People don't want them any more because most modern cameras have built-in flash, and digital cameras can go to very high ISO sensitivity. I have been trying to sell a good flash unit for months, but have given up - probably I'll throw it away. If you were not in Peru I'd send it to you. Moreover, the AF160 is a very basic low power flash unit, cheap in its day, and (with a film camera) only just about adequate for close portraits and small groups. If I were you I would get something a bit better, even one step up to an AF200 or better still an AF280. Or any of the numerous others by Sunpak, Vivitar etc because they are just as good and don't carry the premium price of the "Pentax" name. In fact I understand the Pentax flashes of that era were made by Sunpak anyway.

02-23-2021, 12:13 PM	#12
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Lord Lucan even one step up to an AF200 I assume you mean the AF200T? The AF200S and AF200SA are only a small step up from the AF160SA (GN 16 to GN 20). Steve

02-24-2021, 07:47 AM	#14
TwoUptons Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,214	The 16/160 flashes are really handy because of their small size. While I think the AF280T is one of the greatest flashes ever made, my film cameras usually travel with a 160 for fill. But yeah, they’re cheap... and probably not worth paying to fix... -Eric

02-24-2021, 11:50 AM	#15
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by TwoUptons While I think the AF280T is one of the greatest flashes ever made, my film cameras usually travel with a 160 for fill. I totally agree with both points and why I keep a Vivitar 2600 in the "jail" box (never use on K-3) for casual and fill use with the film cameras. It works with hot shoes and is "short-safe" with cold shoes* when used with PC sync, has adequate power (GN 18(m)), dual range auto with manual, and is quite compact. What's not to like, eh? Steve * My Yongnuo speedlight requires insulation for its foot on most on-camera cold shoes.