What's the difference between Program made and Auto mode?

Michael Piziak · 09-26-2021, 03:49 PM

I was reading about vintage film cameras, and the author described ones with "Program" mode did everything for a beginner.

Beginner question:

What's the (major?) difference(s) between Program made and Auto mode, on a DSLR?

**FozzFoster** · 09-26-2021, 03:58 PM

Auto allows for very little human input on how the exposure is taken.
Program is essentially the same thing, BUT will allow the human to take over if desired.

Example: If you move the rear-control wheel (aperture) when in Auto mode, nothing happens. If you move the rear-control wheel in program it will manually override the aperture to your setting and the shutter/ISO will be in auto.

C_Jones · 09-26-2021, 04:00 PM

Basically Auto mode is just what it says, an image created by the camera automatically, according to the conditions it sees through the lens. Auto mode is sometimes also referred to as "Green" mode. On the other hand, as has been said Program mode will allow the user to use it as essentially an auto mode or adjust settings.

I resort to TAV mode for on the go shooting when I may not be able to use Manual mode. I use Manual mode for most of my landscape shooting and longer exposures when I may be using my tripod. Also, if I am using my flash on camera I may set my flash to P-TTL mode and set my camera to Manual mode.

Manual mode is very handy, being that you can adjust all of the settings as you see fit.

**Bob 256** · 09-26-2021, 04:19 PM - **1 Like**

Program Mode for the K-1 (and some predecessors including older Pentax film cameras) is a mode which selects the best judged (by the camera) conditions of exposure based on set needs. There are at least three settings for Program mode which come to mind: Motion Stopping - the camera will try to get the highest shutter speed possible while placing less importance on best aperture and ISO (if ISO is allowed to float). Depth of Field - the camera will minimize the aperture to get the best DOF (the K-1 allows the minimization of DOF by using the largest aperture). MTF (modulation transfer function) - this sound's complicated but it's not. The camera prioritizes the aperture which will provide the sharpest image (based on information provided by the lens being used when available). Hence, you might find the aperture is always near f 6.3 when using a given lens because this is the sharpest lens opening for that lens.The latter mode assumes that a lens can report its best MTF to the camera which many recent lenses can. This is kind of like a "smart" Av mode with the camera selecting the aperture and varying it depending on the lens & focal length used (zoom lenses can have different best MTF points depending on zoom setting).

Program mode in Pentax cameras usually allowed the program setting to be manually overridden by the user through the use of adjustment dials. This allowed one to instantly drop into Av or Tv priority from the Program mode (and the "green button would return the camera to Program mode in later implementations). I use the MTF Program mode a lot because I like the best IQ, but there are times when I need high shutter speed or high DOF, and the adjustment dials get me there easily.

Auto Mode, on the other hand, will juggle things for what the camera thinks will provide the best compromise to get a good photo, not necessarily emphasizing any of the above priorities over another (good for newbies).

Last edited by Bob 256; 09-26-2021 at 04:36 PM.

stevebrot · 09-26-2021, 06:43 PM - **1 Like**

What does the camera manual say?

Better yet, how does the camera behave in "Auto"/"green" vs. "P" modes?

Steve

Fogel70 · 09-26-2021, 09:55 PM

On a recent Pentax DSLR the full auto (green mode) affect much more than the exposure.
In green mode most camera settings is locked into the default (green) settings, including custom settings.

So basically it means that the camera will run in highest level of automation on every camera settings and you can not override any setting.

Program mode is an exposure mode that can control both aperture and shutter speed.

reh321 · 09-27-2021, 05:20 AM

Originally posted by Fogel70

Program mode is an exposure mode that can control both aperture and shutter speed.

The camera can control both aperture and shutter speed in program mode, but the user can over-ride those choices. More importantly, the user retains control of ISO.

**ProfessorBuzz** · 09-27-2021, 05:33 AM - **3 Likes**

A = Auto = Amateur for beginners
P = Program = for Professionals getting Paid

M = Manual = for Masters of photography

rangercarp · 09-27-2021, 07:07 AM

Green mode does not allow adjustments to focus points either. If you have the camera set to a certain focus point, in green mode it will revert to the camera picking the focus point. I suspect it does the same with the metering mode as well. In short, green mode does not allow user control. P mode does.

normhead · 09-27-2021, 07:16 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by ProfessorBuzz

A = Auto = Amateur for beginners
P = Program = for Professionals getting Paid

M = Manual = for Masters of photography

I use AV mode. I guess I'm none of those things.

Fogel70 · 09-27-2021, 08:05 AM - **1 Like**

Here is the description of green mode from K5 manual. I believe later cameras have similar limitations too, but I'm not sure it is described as well in later manuals.

Michael Piziak · 09-27-2021, 08:06 AM

Thanks everyone for your answers.

I rarely use either mode, but I will remember that basically in auto mode, the camera does all the choosing. In P mode, there are some functions that the user can tweak.

Regards,

Michael

normhead · 09-27-2021, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by Michael Piziak

Thanks everyone for your answers.

I rarely use either mode, but I will remember that basically in auto mode, the camera does all the choosing. In P mode, there are some functions that the user can tweak.

Regards,

Michael

And in AV modę you set the ƒ/stop and ISO and the camera sets the time. Let's not forget the important stuff.

ISO and Aperture are the elements that in many cases are important. Where as shooting on tripod, time choices are often unimportant, except for preventing motion blur. In my mind, you use AV for everything but AF.c. Where you use TaV (you set your time and ƒ/stop, and the camera adjusts ISO.)

Manual is good for Live View macros where exact control of DoF is important, but is completely unnecessary for landscape, and detrimental for wildlife and candids.

I hate seeing oversimplifications. And I fail to understand how someone thinks that having the camera set the shutter speed, I'm losing control. That's ridiculous. I have full control with the camera controls (the wheels and buttons) , and I can keep track of the shutter speed in the viewfinder. So where is the lack of control?

**psoo** · 09-27-2021, 08:26 AM

Originally posted by normhead

I use AV mode. I guess I'm none of those things.

From your many comments in these Forums I believe you should not be using the Av setting. Av stands for Average Photographer". You belong in the M category. Don't you agree?

normhead · 09-27-2021, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by psoo

From your many comments in these Forums I believe you should not be using the Av setting. Av stands for Average Photographer". You belong in the M category. Don't you agree?

OK, it's not often I'm speechless....

But... I see what you did there.

09-26-2021, 03:49 PM	#1
Michael Piziak Closed Account Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,815	What's the difference between Program made and Auto mode? I was reading about vintage film cameras, and the author described ones with "Program" mode did everything for a beginner. Beginner question: What's the (major?) difference(s) between Program made and Auto mode, on a DSLR?

09-26-2021, 04:00 PM	#3
C_Jones Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,088	Basically Auto mode is just what it says, an image created by the camera automatically, according to the conditions it sees through the lens. Auto mode is sometimes also referred to as "Green" mode. On the other hand, as has been said Program mode will allow the user to use it as essentially an auto mode or adjust settings. I resort to TAV mode for on the go shooting when I may not be able to use Manual mode. I use Manual mode for most of my landscape shooting and longer exposures when I may be using my tripod. Also, if I am using my flash on camera I may set my flash to P-TTL mode and set my camera to Manual mode. Manual mode is very handy, being that you can adjust all of the settings as you see fit. Last edited by C_Jones; 09-26-2021 at 04:09 PM.

09-27-2021, 08:05 AM - 1 Like	#11
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Here is the description of green mode from K5 manual. I believe later cameras have similar limitations too, but I'm not sure it is described as well in later manuals. Last edited by Fogel70; 05-31-2022 at 04:59 AM.

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09-26-2021, 03:58 PM	#2
FozzFoster Custom User Title Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Alberta Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Auto allows for very little human input on how the exposure is taken. Program is essentially the same thing, BUT will allow the human to take over if desired. Example: If you move the rear-control wheel (aperture) when in Auto mode, nothing happens. If you move the rear-control wheel in program it will manually override the aperture to your setting and the shutter/ISO will be in auto.

09-26-2021, 04:19 PM - 1 Like	#4
Bob 256 Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Idaho Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	Program Mode for the K-1 (and some predecessors including older Pentax film cameras) is a mode which selects the best judged (by the camera) conditions of exposure based on set needs. There are at least three settings for Program mode which come to mind: Motion Stopping - the camera will try to get the highest shutter speed possible while placing less importance on best aperture and ISO (if ISO is allowed to float). Depth of Field - the camera will minimize the aperture to get the best DOF (the K-1 allows the minimization of DOF by using the largest aperture). MTF (modulation transfer function) - this sound's complicated but it's not. The camera prioritizes the aperture which will provide the sharpest image (based on information provided by the lens being used when available). Hence, you might find the aperture is always near f 6.3 when using a given lens because this is the sharpest lens opening for that lens.The latter mode assumes that a lens can report its best MTF to the camera which many recent lenses can. This is kind of like a "smart" Av mode with the camera selecting the aperture and varying it depending on the lens & focal length used (zoom lenses can have different best MTF points depending on zoom setting). Program mode in Pentax cameras usually allowed the program setting to be manually overridden by the user through the use of adjustment dials. This allowed one to instantly drop into Av or Tv priority from the Program mode (and the "green button would return the camera to Program mode in later implementations). I use the MTF Program mode a lot because I like the best IQ, but there are times when I need high shutter speed or high DOF, and the adjustment dials get me there easily. Auto Mode, on the other hand, will juggle things for what the camera thinks will provide the best compromise to get a good photo, not necessarily emphasizing any of the above priorities over another (good for newbies). Last edited by Bob 256; 09-26-2021 at 04:36 PM.

09-26-2021, 06:43 PM - 1 Like	#5
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	What does the camera manual say? Better yet, how does the camera behave in "Auto"/"green" vs. "P" modes? Steve

09-26-2021, 09:55 PM	#6
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	On a recent Pentax DSLR the full auto (green mode) affect much more than the exposure. In green mode most camera settings is locked into the default (green) settings, including custom settings. So basically it means that the camera will run in highest level of automation on every camera settings and you can not override any setting. Program mode is an exposure mode that can control both aperture and shutter speed.

09-27-2021, 05:20 AM	#7
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	Originally posted by Fogel70 Program mode is an exposure mode that can control both aperture and shutter speed. The camera can control both aperture and shutter speed in program mode, but the user can over-ride those choices. More importantly, the user retains control of ISO.

09-27-2021, 05:33 AM - 3 Likes	#8
ProfessorBuzz Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 1,903	A = Auto = Amateur for beginners P = Program = for Professionals getting Paid M = Manual = for Masters of photography

09-27-2021, 07:07 AM	#9
rangercarp Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Southern Michigan Posts: 437	Green mode does not allow adjustments to focus points either. If you have the camera set to a certain focus point, in green mode it will revert to the camera picking the focus point. I suspect it does the same with the metering mode as well. In short, green mode does not allow user control. P mode does.

09-27-2021, 07:16 AM - 1 Like	#10
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by ProfessorBuzz A = Auto = Amateur for beginners P = Program = for Professionals getting Paid M = Manual = for Masters of photography I use AV mode. I guess I'm none of those things.

09-27-2021, 08:06 AM	#12
Michael Piziak Closed Account Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,815 Original Poster	Thanks everyone for your answers. I rarely use either mode, but I will remember that basically in auto mode, the camera does all the choosing. In P mode, there are some functions that the user can tweak. Regards, Michael

09-27-2021, 08:21 AM	#13
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Michael Piziak Thanks everyone for your answers. I rarely use either mode, but I will remember that basically in auto mode, the camera does all the choosing. In P mode, there are some functions that the user can tweak. Regards, Michael And in AV modę you set the ƒ/stop and ISO and the camera sets the time. Let's not forget the important stuff. ISO and Aperture are the elements that in many cases are important. Where as shooting on tripod, time choices are often unimportant, except for preventing motion blur. In my mind, you use AV for everything but AF.c. Where you use TaV (you set your time and ƒ/stop, and the camera adjusts ISO.) Manual is good for Live View macros where exact control of DoF is important, but is completely unnecessary for landscape, and detrimental for wildlife and candids. I hate seeing oversimplifications. And I fail to understand how someone thinks that having the camera set the shutter speed, I'm losing control. That's ridiculous. I have full control with the camera controls (the wheels and buttons) , and I can keep track of the shutter speed in the viewfinder. So where is the lack of control?

09-27-2021, 08:26 AM	#14
psoo Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 485	Originally posted by normhead I use AV mode. I guess I'm none of those things. From your many comments in these Forums I believe you should not be using the Av setting. Av stands for Average Photographer". You belong in the M category. Don't you agree?

09-27-2021, 08:45 AM	#15
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by psoo From your many comments in these Forums I believe you should not be using the Av setting. Av stands for Average Photographer". You belong in the M category. Don't you agree? OK, it's not often I'm speechless.... But... I see what you did there.