[tampa]

nice shot, btw

Remember the image is upside down. That is, something causing a mark on the top of the image would be on the bottom of the camera's frame area. But as noted 120 film has backing paper next to the pressure plate. Also I see more fine, streaking vertical lines in the posted image besides the obvious one. Was the film lab developed with a machine that has a transport system perhaps?

Those are good catches on the multiple lines and the image being upside down. Yes, it is 120 film. Sorry, I should have mentioned that. I am not sure about the transport system.

In terms of the multiple lines, could perhaps the winder be bad? And stetching the film? But it is weird the dark line is always in the same place.

[tampa]

Does the line appear on all rolls or just one or two?

Examine the negative for the lines. You may have to view it at an angle to check the reflected light off the surface to see the marks. Examine both sides.

The scuff on the plate may just be some gunk or other. Try cleaning it off with a cotton swab or cloth dampened with window cleaner.

It appears on multiple rolls. It is very smooth to the touch. It is like the metal had been repeatedly brushed by something.

[tampa]

a) Is the line on the film on the dull emulsion side or the shiny back side?
b) Who is doing the scans? (It can be a scanner issue.)
c) Are you developing the film yourself or are they sent out to a lab? Long straight lines are usually caused by dirty machine rollers and not by hand developed and squeegee scratches.

I have had the same developer do it, but it has been over several weeks too. That said, I will send the latest rolls to a new lab.

[tampa]

That "scuff" on the film pressure plate might be an indication of a pinch point between the film and the edge of the film frame on the opposite side of the film. I would look there and see if there is a corresponding point with wear marks. A pressure point on the emulsion side of the film could most certainly cause the issue even without scratching the film (or leaving any obvious damage to it). If enough pressure is put against the emulsion, it can cause an exposure response in the emulsion and become part of an actual image. If there is a pinch point, it needs to be removed so the film isn't pinched as it's drawn across the exposure plane.

I've seen old film cameras with an open flap on the back, and by using a stylus, writing on the film (through the paper backing), a photo could be labeled (it would show up as lighter writing in the print). I've tried this myself but the results are not very good although you can actually "write" on a photographic emulsion using pressure and have it show up.

Thanks Bob -- that is an interesting point. I looked on the back of the camera, and did not see anything obvious -- I did attach a photo. Maybe you (and anyone else interested) could take a look? As I said to a few other folks who are trying to help, I cannot think of anything that would produce a line that straight except for the curtain. But I would expect the curtain to be dark all the way up to the line itself. I thought possibly the film was being stretched, but it is weird that it always happens in the same spot. Any ideas after looking at the new image attached?

Attached Images

 

[UncleVanya]

What specific 120/220 camera is this? Are these lines aligned to the opening slit of the shutter?

[Bob 256]

Thanks Bob -- that is an interesting point. I looked on the back of the camera, and did not see anything obvious -- I did attach a photo. Maybe you (and anyone else interested) could take a look? As I said to a few other folks who are trying to help, I cannot think of anything that would produce a line that straight except for the curtain. But I would expect the curtain to be dark all the way up to the line itself. I thought possibly the film was being stretched, but it is weird that it always happens in the same spot. Any ideas after looking at the new image attached?

If there is a "pinch point" which might be applying pressure to the emulsion as it's dragged over it, it would be on one of the rails (rollers) at each end of the film area or near by, and that should be directly under the hazy area on the pressure plate when the film back is closed. If those are rollers, spin them with your finger to make sure they are free and roll as they should without binding.

Are these areas on the negative showing between images (in the borders between frames)? That would indicate that the film damage is occurring while the film is being moved between shots. If it shows only on the exposed portions, then it could be something on the FP shutter rubbing when a shot is taken or It could be damage to one of the shutter blades which is causing a slightly different exposure at that point as the shutter slit races across the film. You might be able to see this if you open the back and slowly cock the shutter while looking at the blades as they are reset (though the edge of the first blade will be covered by the second and you might not be able to see any damage to its edge). You could also try looking through the camera with the back opened and without a lens while it's held up to a very flat, lighted background. Then you might see the actual lightening when the shutter is tripped (use a fairly high speed like 1/250 sec.) if there's shutter damage. If it's shutter damage, that would be a job for a camera repair shop.

[tuco]

Thanks! Appreciate that. I love the camera -- I just wish I could figure out what the line is!

Don't take this as criticism but an observation and what I've done with my Pentax 67 on occasion and maybe that's what happen in your shot. You took the picture in portrait orientation. Where would the center of the focusing micro prism be in that shot? I'd say right on the subject's face.

As a result, 1/3 of the frame is dead space above the subject's head. You could have taken that shot in landscape orientation and had the same amount of subject showing. The micro prism can subconsciously act like a crosshair on a scope and a person can tend to center the image on what it's pointing at.

[tampa]

What specific 120/220 camera is this? Are these lines aligned to the opening slit of the shutter?

It's a Pentax 6x7, early model, no light meter or mirror lockup.

[tampa]

If there is a "pinch point" which might be applying pressure to the emulsion as it's dragged over it, it would be on one of the rails (rollers) at each end of the film area or near by, and that should be directly under the hazy area on the pressure plate when the film back is closed. If those are rollers, spin them with your finger to make sure they are free and roll as they should without binding.

Are these areas on the negative showing between images (in the borders between frames)? That would indicate that the film damage is occurring while the film is being moved between shots. If it shows only on the exposed portions, then it could be something on the FP shutter rubbing when a shot is taken or It could be damage to one of the shutter blades which is causing a slightly different exposure at that point as the shutter slit races across the film. You might be able to see this if you open the back and slowly cock the shutter while looking at the blades as they are reset (though the edge of the first blade will be covered by the second and you might not be able to see any damage to its edge). You could also try looking through the camera with the back opened and without a lens while it's held up to a very flat, lighted background. Then you might see the actual lightening when the shutter is tripped (use a fairly high speed like 1/250 sec.) if there's shutter damage. If it's shutter damage, that would be a job for a camera repair shop.

Thanks Bob -- I checked the negatives and it is hard to tell if there is a line -- I don't see one. I have attached a new photo.

[Bob 256]

Thanks Bob -- I checked the negatives and it is hard to tell if there is a line -- I don't see one. I have attached a new photo.

My bad. This is a lighter line showing up on the negatives so it's unlikely it's due to pressure against the emulsion which would produce a darker line. It's hard to tell if it extends through the borders. I checked the actual density in your photo of the negative and could see no difference in the border area though that's inconclusive as to whether the effect passes through that area.

The opposite could be true about your shutter curtains - you might have some debris on the edge of one of them which is reducing the exposure as the shutter slit passes (in that one area which produces a line). You could check this theory by making a long exposure with bulb (small aperture and limited light. In this case, the shutter slit will have little influence on the exposure and if the defect disappears, it is a shutter issue. If the defect is still there, its a film issue (bad film or processing). Unless the film is actually showing some scratches, the lightening of the stripe area pretty much rules out anything dragging across the film and causing a lightening of that area in the negative. If I were guessing, I would say it's film related as has been proposed earlier but try the long exposure trick and see what happens (if you can get the defect to present itself again on the same roll). You may indeed find that changing to a different processing source will cure this.

[Not a Number]

A scratch on the negative means a thinner negative area - more light goes through. So lighter on the negative and darker on the print/positive. Colors can vary depending on how many layers of the emulsion are scratched away.

A light leak or pinhole on the shutter curtain would make darker areas on the negative.

[stevebrot]

Hi there -- yes, it is on the negative too.

Is the scratch on the emulsion (dull) side or on the back (shiny) side of the negative?

Thanks! Appreciate that. I love the camera -- I just wish I could figure out what the line is!

If on the shiny side of the negative, it was introduced after the film was removed from the camera. If on the emulsion side any in-camera source would be before the film rails or between the end of the film rails and the take-up spool, otherwise, the scratch was introduced after the film was taken out of the camera.


Steve

[tampa]

My bad. This is a lighter line showing up on the negatives so it's unlikely it's due to pressure against the emulsion which would produce a darker line. It's hard to tell if it extends through the borders. I checked the actual density in your photo of the negative and could see no difference in the border area though that's inconclusive as to whether the effect passes through that area.

The opposite could be true about your shutter curtains - you might have some debris on the edge of one of them which is reducing the exposure as the shutter slit passes (in that one area which produces a line). You could check this theory by making a long exposure with bulb (small aperture and limited light. In this case, the shutter slit will have little influence on the exposure and if the defect disappears, it is a shutter issue. If the defect is still there, its a film issue (bad film or processing). Unless the film is actually showing some scratches, the lightening of the stripe area pretty much rules out anything dragging across the film and causing a lightening of that area in the negative. If I were guessing, I would say it's film related as has been proposed earlier but try the long exposure trick and see what happens (if you can get the defect to present itself again on the same roll). You may indeed find that changing to a different processing source will cure this.

Thanks Bob -- appreciate it. I had a chance to shoot some more film, and sent it off to a new developer. I will keep you posted, and thanks so much for the thoughtful replies!

---------- Post added 10-31-21 at 09:46 AM ----------

Is the scratch on the emulsion (dull) side or on the back (shiny) side of the negative?



If on the shiny side of the negative, it was introduced after the film was removed from the camera. If on the emulsion side any in-camera source would be before the film rails or between the end of the film rails and the take-up spool, otherwise, the scratch was introduced after the film was taken out of the camera.


Steve

Thanks Steve -- I shot some more film this week when I was out of town, and will see what it looks like when it comes back

[tampa]

Thanks Bob -- appreciate it. I had a chance to shoot some more film, and sent it off to a new developer. I will keep you posted, and thanks so much for the thoughtful replies!

---------- Post added 10-31-21 at 09:46 AM ----------


Thanks Steve -- I shot some more film this week when I was out of town, and will see what it looks like when it comes back

Hey Steve --

As promised, I had another roll developed. This is actually the first roll I had shot with the camera. I only shot 5 frames. This is the only frame that has the line. The image labelled "left" looks like the same line. The second image has a faint blue line which seems to be new. The third image had 10 images, and I only see a line on one of them. It was a lot thinner, but then again it was 3200 ISO film, which may have occluded the line.

Thanks Steve -- appreciate any thoughts!

[Alex645]

Are all your films (with the line problem) made by Lomography? If so, I am now suspecting it could be a bad batch. Does the line appear in any other brand of film?