Line in Negative

tampa · 10-24-2021, 07:11 AM - **1 Like**

Hello,

I am a newbie here. I am getting a line on both the scan and the negative.* What I know is:

1.* When shooting horizontally, it is a horizontal line.
2.* When shooting in portrait orientation, it is a vertical line
3.* It is always in the same place*
4.* It is straight and dark grey or black
5.* It is less pronounced in the highlights
6.* It seems like it does not always occur, or is perhaps too faint to see.

I found a scuff on the inner part of the camera as if something was rubbing.* I attached those photos.* This seems to be in the same place as the mark appears on the negative.* I thought is would rub off, but it seems like it is worn into the metal.

Attached Images

View Picture EXIF

**AstroDave** · 10-24-2021, 08:45 AM

That scuff is on the pressure plate (right?), which applies pressure to the back of the film (the plastic part to which the light-sensitive emulsion which faces the lens/front of the camera is attached). So, the scuff may scratch the back of the film, along the direction that it moves when wound on to the take up reel. That matches the sense of your marks with regard to landscape/portrait orientation.

You should be able to feel some slight (linear scratches) roughness in the backing plastic. If you reflect some light from it at the right angle, you should be able to see it as well.

You might be able to polish it out somehow, or perhaps put some very thin tape over the scuffed area. A good camera repair facility (if you can find one!) ought to be able to help.

LaHo · 10-24-2021, 08:52 AM

You use 120 film. 120 film has backing paper. I seriously doubt that the "scuff" on the pressure plate will mark the film through the backing paper. I think you must search for the source of problem elsewhere.

JohnMc · 10-24-2021, 09:13 AM

How did you get from the film negative to what we see here? Can you see the density change on the actual film negative? How was the film processed?

tuco · 10-24-2021, 09:35 AM

Remember the image is upside down. That is, something causing a mark on the top of the image would be on the bottom of the camera's frame area. But as noted 120 film has backing paper next to the pressure plate. Also I see more fine, streaking vertical lines in the posted image besides the obvious one. Was the film lab developed with a machine that has a transport system perhaps?

**FozzFoster** · 10-24-2021, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by tampa

I attached those photos.

nice shot, btw

Not a Number · 10-24-2021, 11:20 AM

Does the line appear on all rolls or just one or two?

Examine the negative for the lines. You may have to view it at an angle to check the reflected light off the surface to see the marks. Examine both sides.

The scuff on the plate may just be some gunk or other. Try cleaning it off with a cotton swab or cloth dampened with window cleaner.

**Bob 256** · 10-24-2021, 11:24 AM

That "scuff" on the film pressure plate might be an indication of a pinch point between the film and the edge of the film frame on the opposite side of the film. I would look there and see if there is a corresponding point with wear marks. A pressure point on the emulsion side of the film could most certainly cause the issue even without scratching the film (or leaving any obvious damage to it). If enough pressure is put against the emulsion, it can cause an exposure response in the emulsion and become part of an actual image. If there is a pinch point, it needs to be removed so the film isn't pinched as it's drawn across the exposure plane.

I've seen old film cameras with an open flap on the back, and by using a stylus, writing on the film (through the paper backing), a photo could be labeled (it would show up as lighter writing in the print). I've tried this myself but the results are not very good although you can actually "write" on a photographic emulsion using pressure and have it show up.

**Lowell Goudge** · 10-24-2021, 11:48 AM - **1 Like**

I have a line like that from my negative scanner. Are you sure it is on the film or just the scan. If it is the camera it will be there on every frame, scann the film the other way round and see what happens

**Alex645** · 10-24-2021, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

I have a line like that from my negative scanner. Are you sure it is on the film or just the scan. If it is the camera it will be there on every frame, scann the film the other way round and see what happens

a) Is the line on the film on the dull emulsion side or the shiny back side?
b) Who is doing the scans? (It can be a scanner issue.)
c) Are you developing the film yourself or are they sent out to a lab? Long straight lines are usually caused by dirty machine rollers and not by hand developed and squeegee scratches.

**UncleVanya** · 10-24-2021, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by tuco

Remember the image is upside down. That is, something causing a mark on the top of the image would be on the bottom of the camera's frame area. But as noted 120 film has backing paper next to the pressure plate. Also I see more fine, streaking vertical lines in the posted image besides the obvious one. Was the film lab developed with a machine that has a transport system perhaps?

I see those fainter lines myself. They are quite regularly spaced or at that’s the appearance on my screen.

tampa · 10-25-2021, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by AstroDave

That scuff is on the pressure plate (right?), which applies pressure to the back of the film (the plastic part to which the light-sensitive emulsion which faces the lens/front of the camera is attached). So, the scuff may scratch the back of the film, along the direction that it moves when wound on to the take up reel. That matches the sense of your marks with regard to landscape/portrait orientation.

You should be able to feel some slight (linear scratches) roughness in the backing plastic. If you reflect some light from it at the right angle, you should be able to see it as well.

You might be able to polish it out somehow, or perhaps put some very thin tape over the scuffed area. A good camera repair facility (if you can find one!) ought to be able to help.

Thanks Dave -- that's what I thought too ... it is, however, smooth. The only thing I can think of that is perfectly straight and moves like that would be the curtain. Any ideas?

tampa · 10-25-2021, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by LaHo

You use 120 film. 120 film has backing paper. I seriously doubt that the "scuff" on the pressure plate will mark the film through the backing paper. I think you must search for the source of problem elsewhere.

Hi LaHo --

I use 120. That is a good point about the backing paper. I felt the mark, and it is very smooth. I agree with you it would be hard to scuff the film through the paper. The fact that the line is always perfectly straight makes me wonder about the curtain and perhaps a shutter problem. But then again, the negative from the line to the end of the frame would be dark. Any ideas? Thanks!

tampa · 10-25-2021, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by JohnMc

How did you get from the film negative to what we see here? Can you see the density change on the actual film negative? How was the film processed?

Hi there -- yes, it is on the negative too.

tampa · 10-25-2021, 08:05 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by FozzFoster

nice shot, btw

Thanks! Appreciate that. I love the camera -- I just wish I could figure out what the line is!

10-24-2021, 11:24 AM	#8
Bob 256 Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Idaho Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,379	That "scuff" on the film pressure plate might be an indication of a pinch point between the film and the edge of the film frame on the opposite side of the film. I would look there and see if there is a corresponding point with wear marks. A pressure point on the emulsion side of the film could most certainly cause the issue even without scratching the film (or leaving any obvious damage to it). If enough pressure is put against the emulsion, it can cause an exposure response in the emulsion and become part of an actual image. If there is a pinch point, it needs to be removed so the film isn't pinched as it's drawn across the exposure plane. I've seen old film cameras with an open flap on the back, and by using a stylus, writing on the film (through the paper backing), a photo could be labeled (it would show up as lighter writing in the print). I've tried this myself but the results are not very good although you can actually "write" on a photographic emulsion using pressure and have it show up. Last edited by Bob 256; 10-24-2021 at 11:29 AM.

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10-24-2021, 08:45 AM	#2
AstroDave Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: May 2007 Location: Flagstaff, Arizona Posts: 1,648	That scuff is on the pressure plate (right?), which applies pressure to the back of the film (the plastic part to which the light-sensitive emulsion which faces the lens/front of the camera is attached). So, the scuff may scratch the back of the film, *along the direction that it moves* when wound on to the take up reel. That matches the sense of your marks with regard to landscape/portrait orientation. You should be able to feel some slight (linear scratches) roughness in the backing plastic. If you reflect some light from it at the right angle, you should be able to see it as well. You might be able to polish it out somehow, or perhaps put some very thin tape over the scuffed area. A good camera repair facility (if you can find one!) ought to be able to help.

10-24-2021, 08:52 AM	#3
LaHo Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Greater Copenhagen Area Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 430	You use 120 film. 120 film has backing paper. I seriously doubt that the "scuff" on the pressure plate will mark the film through the backing paper. I think you must search for the source of problem elsewhere.

10-24-2021, 09:13 AM	#4
JohnMc Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2020 Posts: 659	How did you get from the film negative to what we see here? Can you see the density change on the actual film negative? How was the film processed?

10-24-2021, 09:35 AM	#5
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,032	Remember the image is upside down. That is, something causing a mark on the top of the image would be on the bottom of the camera's frame area. But as noted 120 film has backing paper next to the pressure plate. Also I see more fine, streaking vertical lines in the posted image besides the obvious one. Was the film lab developed with a machine that has a transport system perhaps?

10-24-2021, 09:42 AM	#6
FozzFoster Custom User Title Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Alberta Photos: Albums Posts: 6,808	Originally posted by tampa I attached those photos. nice shot, btw

10-24-2021, 11:20 AM	#7
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Does the line appear on all rolls or just one or two? Examine the negative for the lines. You may have to view it at an angle to check the reflected light off the surface to see the marks. Examine both sides. The scuff on the plate may just be some gunk or other. Try cleaning it off with a cotton swab or cloth dampened with window cleaner.

10-24-2021, 11:48 AM - 1 Like	#9
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,892	I have a line like that from my negative scanner. Are you sure it is on the film or just the scan. If it is the camera it will be there on every frame, scann the film the other way round and see what happens

10-24-2021, 12:56 PM	#10
Alex645 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Kaneohe, HI Photos: Albums Posts: 3,527	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge I have a line like that from my negative scanner. Are you sure it is on the film or just the scan. If it is the camera it will be there on every frame, scann the film the other way round and see what happens a) Is the line on the film on the dull emulsion side or the shiny back side? b) Who is doing the scans? (It can be a scanner issue.) c) Are you developing the film yourself or are they sent out to a lab? Long straight lines are usually caused by dirty machine rollers and not by hand developed and squeegee scratches.

10-24-2021, 03:41 PM	#11
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,468	Originally posted by tuco Remember the image is upside down. That is, something causing a mark on the top of the image would be on the bottom of the camera's frame area. But as noted 120 film has backing paper next to the pressure plate. Also I see more fine, streaking vertical lines in the posted image besides the obvious one. Was the film lab developed with a machine that has a transport system perhaps? I see those fainter lines myself. They are quite regularly spaced or at that’s the appearance on my screen.

10-25-2021, 08:01 AM	#12
tampa New Member Join Date: Oct 2021 Posts: 15 Original Poster	Originally posted by AstroDave That scuff is on the pressure plate (right?), which applies pressure to the back of the film (the plastic part to which the light-sensitive emulsion which faces the lens/front of the camera is attached). So, the scuff may scratch the back of the film, *along the direction that it moves* when wound on to the take up reel. That matches the sense of your marks with regard to landscape/portrait orientation. You should be able to feel some slight (linear scratches) roughness in the backing plastic. If you reflect some light from it at the right angle, you should be able to see it as well. You might be able to polish it out somehow, or perhaps put some very thin tape over the scuffed area. A good camera repair facility (if you can find one!) ought to be able to help. Thanks Dave -- that's what I thought too ... it is, however, smooth. The only thing I can think of that is perfectly straight and moves like that would be the curtain. Any ideas?

10-25-2021, 08:03 AM	#13
tampa New Member Join Date: Oct 2021 Posts: 15 Original Poster	Originally posted by LaHo You use 120 film. 120 film has backing paper. I seriously doubt that the "scuff" on the pressure plate will mark the film through the backing paper. I think you must search for the source of problem elsewhere. Hi LaHo -- I use 120. That is a good point about the backing paper. I felt the mark, and it is very smooth. I agree with you it would be hard to scuff the film through the paper. The fact that the line is always perfectly straight makes me wonder about the curtain and perhaps a shutter problem. But then again, the negative from the line to the end of the frame would be dark. Any ideas? Thanks!

10-25-2021, 08:03 AM	#14
tampa New Member Join Date: Oct 2021 Posts: 15 Original Poster	Originally posted by JohnMc How did you get from the film negative to what we see here? Can you see the density change on the actual film negative? How was the film processed? Hi there -- yes, it is on the negative too.

10-25-2021, 08:05 AM - 1 Like	#15
tampa New Member Join Date: Oct 2021 Posts: 15 Original Poster	Originally posted by FozzFoster nice shot, btw Thanks! Appreciate that. I love the camera -- I just wish I could figure out what the line is!