[THoog]

I've also wondered how a flash can hurt my new'er camera's private bits when a flash is normally triggered, not the other way around (The camera triggers the flash, the flash doesn't blast its 400 volts back at the camera, or does it?).

In some older flashes, yes, the flash absolutely does pass 400 volts back through the camera. This is because all an SLR did to trigger the flash was close a metal contact in the camera, completing the circuit between the flash's capacitor and the strobe. Later flashes added electronics so that the trigger voltage did not have to be the full flash voltage. In either case, modern DSLRs have replaced the metal contact with a transistor, which may not be able to handle the trigger voltage.

This also partly answers the question of why are flashes so expensive compared to the good old days. We've gone from the only communication being a completed circuit to all sorts of settings negotiation between the camera and flash, in some cases wirelessly. You can still get a good manual flash for much less than a hundred bucks, if you shop carefully - but you will have to do more of the work that the expensive flashes do automatically.

[Lowell Goudge]

Just to be clear on flashes and flash technology.

There are 4 basic different flash operating modes.

Manual,
which you set to increments of maximum flash power, in full, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32. You use the guide number, ISO, subject distance and lens aperture to calculate the exposure.

Auto, which uses a sensor built into the flash, and knowing the ISO and Aperture, (either manually or transferred from the camera to the flash) the sensor turns off the flash when it thinks it has had enough exposure

TTL, which takes all the ISO only, and turns off the flash when a dedicated sensor that reads light reflected off the film/sensor plane, determines there is enough light

PTTL I am not sure what the p stands for, but I consider the P stands for Pre or Predictive Flash. The camera uses the built in metering and measures both ambient light and the contribution from a small flash in advance of the main flash. It then calculates the amount of flash needed when combined with ambient light for he correct exposure.

Pentax DSLRs supported both PTTL and TTL up to the *istDS or DS2 and then only supported PTTL afterwards.

You also need to be careful, as others have mentioned about the trigger voltage. Some very old flashes have the main trigger button at extremely high voltages, I have seen upwards of 200 volts. This will fry modern camera electronics.

The advantage and disadvantages of each mode are as follows.

Manual. Advantage is you are in full control of the settings, disadvantage is that you need to calculate everything yourself

Auto advantage as the name implies is the flash manages the calculations providing that you are within the correct range of distance for the flash to function correctly, disadvantage is that the sensor on the flash is a fixed field of view and may see either. More than your lens or less than your lens, and consider things you don’t want in the exposure

TTL. This is very accurate in some cases, but even though it turns the flash off when exposure is complete, the exposure continues as long as the shutter is open leading to some over exposure if not used with care. But it works very well when the flash is the principle light as it measures exact exposure through the lens and any filters converters etc. Some argued that it was inconsistent with DSLRs because of the protective screen in front of the sensor being overly reflective, but I never saw this issue on my *istD

PTTL as i mentioned above uses the cameras built in metering and calculates the exposure considering the open aperture, shooting aperture, and flash as seen thought open aperture to determine the exposure . It does not work with Teleconverters, or manual aperture lenses

[reh321]

Just to be clear on flashes and flash technology.

There are 4 basic different flash operating modes.

Manual,
which you set to increments of maximum flash power, in full, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32. You use the guide number, ISO, subject distance and lens aperture to calculate the exposure.

Auto, which uses a sensor built into the flash, and knowing the ISO and Aperture, (either manually or transferred from the camera to the flash) the sensor turns off the flash when it thinks it has had enough exposure

TTL, which takes all the ISO only, and turns off the flash when a dedicated sensor that reads light reflected off the film/sensor plane, determines there is enough light

PTTL I am not sure what the p stands for, but I consider the P stands for Pre or Predictive Flash. The camera uses the built in metering and measures both ambient light and the contribution from a small flash in advance of the main flash. It then calculates the amount of flash needed when combined with ambient light for he correct exposure.

Pentax DSLRs supported both PTTL and TTL up to the *istDS or DS2 and then only supported PTTL afterwards.

You also need to be careful, as others have mentioned about the trigger voltage. Some very old flashes have the main trigger button at extremely high voltages, I have seen upwards of 200 volts. This will fry modern camera electronics.

The advantage and disadvantages of each mode are as follows.

Manual. Advantage is you are in full control of the settings, disadvantage is that you need to calculate everything yourself

Auto advantage as the name implies is the flash manages the calculations providing that you are within the correct range of distance for the flash to function correctly, disadvantage is that the sensor on the flash is a fixed field of view and may see either. More than your lens or less than your lens, and consider things you don’t want in the exposure

TTL. This is very accurate in some cases, but even though it turns the flash off when exposure is complete, the exposure continues as long as the shutter is open leading to some over exposure if not used with care. But it works very well when the flash is the principle light as it measures exact exposure through the lens and any filters converters etc. Some argued that it was inconsistent with DSLRs because of the protective screen in front of the sensor being overly reflective, but I never saw this issue on my *istD

PTTL as i mentioned above uses the cameras built in metering and calculates the exposure considering the open aperture, shooting aperture, and flash as seen thought open aperture to determine the exposure . It does not work with Teleconverters, or manual aperture lenses

Canon cameras use something they call “ETTL”, which uses a patented method which used to measure light bouncing off the film; since light bounces of a metal sensor differently than how it bounces of film, their flashes changed when they went to digital. I still have an old Canon flash, which I still use on occasion because it is the only flash I own which rotates around both axes, and it works fine in ‘manual’ mode.

[UncleVanya]

I don’t want to confuse people but Pentax has a history of being very confusing about what the max trigger voltage is on their DSLR systems. Some unofficial quotes suggest up to 380v were fine around the time of the k-7/k-x, but that’s not any guarantee that this info was accurate. It does appear the Pentax implementation is more robust than say Canon and seems to tolerate low double digit numbers reliably.

References:
Flash trigger voltage - PENTAX official answer - PentaxForums.com

Flash Trigger Voltage Known to Work - PentaxForums.com

My personal view is that it is better to be safe rather than sorry. I wouldn’t worry as much on older DSLR’s and I wouldn’t worry on low double digits but I tend to use flashes that are either modern or known to have single digit trigger voltages.

As far as cheap flashes that can work well on Pentax I like many of the suggestions already made. I currently own a few older flashes including an af201sa, af200fg, and a Canon compatible flash or two including a sigma that I use on a Cactus v6 trigger.

This list is useful to see what trigger voltages have been found by others: https://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html

[Papa_Joe]

The issue with new or old flash is you need to know which one satisfies your needs.
If you stay away from flashes before the AF area you are USUALLY on the safe side with your camera being grilled. Other than that you can use virtually every flash with Pentax compability or central contact point. I would say everyone would agree a good flash should have a head which moves in horizontal and vertical direction. Next thing is you should decide which modes you need, which is dependent on how you would like to use the flash. Everything else is personal preference.

If you want all the basic options buy one with P-TTL, Auto mode and several manual power settings (pls. read Lowells classification). For the multi flash setup you should have several manual power settings available. There are people doing it with auto or P-TTL mode, but that is like the car driving you (or for the beginner). I would happily drop P-TTL, but most people would prefer it instead of auto mode. You can find users flash reviews from pentaxians here: Pentax Accessories - Flashes, Tripods, Grips - Pentax Camera Accessory Review Database

[35mmfilmfan]

WARNING ! If buying second hand (and of course not via PF), be aware that some sellers will describe a flash as 'Pentax-compatible'. If it is an old model, this may just mean it will work with film cameras. This may be done through ignorance, not malice, but even so . . . Check very carefully, via the links already posted, that it is in fact suitable. Caveat emptor in all instances.

[mikesbike]

The PTTL system employs a very quick pre-flash output to measure lighting coming back from the subject as an additional aid to flash regulation over the original TTL system. Some still prefer the original TTL. I have an old MF film era hot shoe flash that I have used on some of my older DSLR bodies which were designed for PTTL only, if I wanted to avoid using PTTL. It has both the original TTL mode, no longer usable, and also the alternative "Auto" mode, where it uses its own built-in sensor for flash regulation, not connected to the camera's system. I found this to work satisfactorily for my needs, so I have kept this flash as an alternative if not wanting PTTL. I have not used it on any of my more recent Pentax DSLR bodies, and I am not sure if it is still compatible. It is the compact Pentax AF 280T. It also has manual flash settings as well.

I don't imagine a used one in good condition should cost all that much. It has a tilt and swivel head, and also a tilt-down position for closer work.

[photogem]

Thanks for the heads-up!
Neither my EF-500 DG ST PA-PTTL nor my EF-500 ST PA (NOS three years ago) have been a problem (yet) … I'll be careful

Well, they have that problem.
It's inherent, like the problem of the battery door of the Pentax 360FGZ/540FGZ MK1.
Kind of similar to osteoperosis: If the bone didn't break yet, the condition/basis is present.
So for those owning such a beast, yes, care is necessary.
But for those not owning it, better to stay away.

[clackers]

Any help is appreciated, I'm shopping for a relatively simple flash setup (I've always hated flash photography because .. I suck at it, always have). I would like to start playing around with a hot-shoe flash, then move to maybe a simple slave flash setup to play with portraits and the like for my family and friends (not a business venture in any way shape or form, I've ruined many hobbies by turning them into money).

The 540 is obviously good, but it's hard to tell whether your ambitions extend to a powerful, P-TTL, HSS flash such as that.

I can suggest one that both Stevebrot and I own:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1434814-REG/godox_tt350p_ttl_compact_...981&

It's cheap, new (I think forget trying to use some 1980s flash you might have found), small, low powered, with a few nice features found in the 540.

[67comet]

Thanks all, so much good info, I did searches on here, and found next to nothing. You guys are wonderful.

I ended up snagging a "Sigma EF-530 DG Super" from "UsedPhotoPro" (found accidently).

I read up on it in the forums here and it may have some issues with my K-3 ii, but my K100D Super, and K10D will get along with it very well out of the box. Most of the things I read about were circa 2015, so maybe after the release of K-3 ii and its firmware up date to 1.12 it'll work. We'll see

If it doesn't work, I'll just learn what I like and don't about it's options, and look for my next flash from there. (I hike a LOT at night, so I'd love to learn what I need to do some wireless flash help for some of the dark trails I find - here in Utah up in the Wasatch mountains).

Cheers,
~me

[stevebrot]

I ended up snagging a "Sigma EF-530 DG Super" from "UsedPhotoPro" (found accidently).

It should work on the K-3II as well. Have fun!


Steve

[wadge22]

I ended up snagging a "Sigma EF-530 DG Super" from "UsedPhotoPro" (found accidently).

Sounds like a great choice. If you use it so much that you've learned enough to discover that it's got some limitation for you, you will be better prepared to buy exactly what you need and pay the right price for it. My guess, though, is that you'll only use it some, and find that this unit does everything you require.

[The Jannie]

After much experimenting with on-camera flashes and my K5IIs and K30, I've gone back to a Metz 45CL1. I really dislike having the gun weight high up on a flimsy shoe. The 45 can't be shoe-mounted and I use it on its bracket or off camera with a wireless trigger. I bought my first 45CT-1 in about 1977 and despite their size and weight I really like the build quality and power. Get out there and experiment!

[reh321]

After much experimenting with on-camera flashes and my K5IIs and K30, I've gone back to a Metz 45CL1. I really dislike having the gun weight high up on a flimsy shoe. The 45 can't be shoe-mounted and I use it on its bracket or off camera with a wireless trigger. I bought my first 45CT-1 in about 1977 and despite their size and weight I really like the build quality and power. Get out there and experiment!

Back in the 1980’s and 1990’s, I used a Vivitar {I think it was a 385}, which was known for its weak “foot” and “feet” for it were readily available. I used it because it was also a powerful flash for its time, and having young daughters, I had a reason for taking flash photos from the middle of an auditorium. I got rid of it sometime in the years that followed. I do still have a smaller Vivitar 285 flash, though. I don’t quite trust it’s voltage, though, so I use a Cactus “transmitter” between the flash and the K-30. Cactus units are said to accept higher trigger voltages from the flash but work at lower voltages at the camera end, so they work as adapters when no receiver is present. I seldom use it, because I have another Vivitar, meant for a Pentax camera, that works at low voltages, so it doesn’t need an adapter.

[photogem]

After much experimenting with on-camera flashes and my K5IIs and K30, I've gone back to a Metz 45CL1. I really dislike having the gun weight high up on a flimsy shoe....

This is an interesting viewpoint!


The Sigma EF-530 DG Super which I have got NOS wobbles like many of those earlier Sigma flashes in a unleasant way on my KP, K3 and K5IIs,
I would not want it to stay there without a careful eye on it.

Different with the Metz AF50 but it builts high.


No so with my old non-PTTL Metz 32MZ3.
I have to M SCA adapters for it, the earlier 3701 which builts up higher.
But with the 3702 it the 32MZ3 sits lower and yet doesn't interfere.

These M SCA adapters are plastic but of a very different kind than the cheap plastic of those early Sigmas which are prone to go bad.