[ChristianRock]

For what it's worth - I have had a Watson battery swell up in my Fuji X-T3. It was a challenge to get out without damage to the camera body.

For what it is worth, I had this "expanding battery" issue with the off brands I have had - Watson and especially DSTE. They start off as the same size as Pentax batteries then they keep getting a bit "fatter" with time. I end up throwing most of them away and use only Pentax brand batteries if I can help it...

[photogem]

People have already mentioned Watson. Wasabi is the other more or less 'top-tier' off brand.

Wasabi does what I would call cheating, i.e. cheating the sensible technology of the original D-BC109 charger which wants to see a temperature-controll sensor (a 10kOhm@20°C NTC temperature sensor) inside the charged battery. For protection.

Wasabi (and ALL the other "clone manufacturers" without exception up to this day) use a simple 10kOhm resistor to fool the charger!
The charger reads 10k and thinks it's the T-sensor.

I call that cheaing. Reminds me of German Volkswagen and their emission-cheating-devise (Diesel-Gate)

And thus, no... Wasabi is not more but only less a *top-tier" off brand, because in the beginning they advertised that (at least) they use Japanese cells but this is history... Wasabi is just a name... a logo... glued onto a cheap "made in China" Li-Ion which isn't even allowed in Japan.


I think the knowledge about why 3-rd party clones are not recommended (i.e. the lacking T-sensor and thus the possibility of destrying ones Pentax)

has spread by now and ... if one knows about those facts, one has a responsibility and thus... am I right or wrong (i.e. missing something) should not recomment those clones???

And anybody who complains that the original D-BC109 (and the D-BC90) chargers won't charge quickly should think about it:
ALL clone-chargers (without any exception up to this day) have just 2 contacts and won't measure temperature nor data.
They are fast-chargers and yes, save a bit time... but they steal battery-life and battery/camera-safety! Quite close-cropped, isn't it?

[photogem]

Of course, Pentax are ‘top tier’; my own experience is that Wasabi doesn’t receive a whole charge - they quit before ‘full’

The reason for that is that when one of the 2 cells is full, the charger cannot get the message that it should continue to charge the other cell.
So it stops charging. Because the technology inside is rather simple.
Once Wasabi at least claimed to use Japanese cells but that's history.

[wadge22]

I think the knowledge about why 3-rd party clones are not recommended (i.e. the lacking T-sensor and thus the possibility of destrying ones Pentax)has spread by now and ... if one knows about those facts, one has a responsibility and thus... am I right or wrong (i.e. missing something) should not recomment those clones???

I don't disagree that there are real reasons why the Pentax battery is the right choice. And I respect the knowledge you always bring about these issues, from first hand experience and testing/teardowns.

I myself recently bought a second battery for my K-70, and I considered the off-brand ones for a moment, but in the end went with the real deal. For the reasons you point out.


However, the D Li109 from Pentax is $50. That's %15 of the price I paid for my K70, and almost 10% of the normal price. It's a lot of money for some people; the same people who may have stretched their budget to get an ILC and lens/es in the first place.

Given that the majority of people who buy the (known-name) off brand batteries have no problems (or only fairly acceptable problems: slightly less battery life per charge, faster self discharge when not in use, and shorter lifespan of the battery in years), I don't think it's as cut and dried as you make it out to be here.

Some folks with tighter budgets might be justified in going the cheaper route. I don't think there's anything wrong with helping those people make the choices that are right for them. And I strongly believe that they are better off going with a $15 or $25 Wasabi or Watson than an $8 (even) less quality brand or unbranded battery.

[photogem]

I don't disagree that there are real reasons why the Pentax battery is the right choice. And I respect the knowledge you always bring about these issues, from first hand experience and testing/teardowns.

I myself recently bought a second battery for my K-70, and I considered the off-brand ones for a moment, but in the end went with the real deal. For the reasons you point out.

However, the D Li109 from Pentax is $50. That's %15 of the price I paid for my K70, and almost 10% of the normal price. It's a lot of money for some people; the same people who may have stretched their budget to get an ILC and lens/es in the first place.

Given that the majority of people who buy the (known-name) off brand batteries have no problems (or only fairly acceptable problems: slightly less battery life per charge, faster self discharge when not in use, and shorter lifespan of the battery in years), I don't think it's as cut and dried as you make it out to be here.

Some folks with tighter budgets might be justified in going the cheaper route. I don't think there's anything wrong with helping those people make the choices that are right for them. And I strongly believe that they are better off going with a $15 or $25 Wasabi or Watson than an $8 (even) less quality brand or unbranded battery.

I understand what you mean, but my point is ... to point out that those manufacturers as I see it are actually cheating.

IMO they should inform the customer about the difference. Only then it is "cut and dried"!


And particular because they do know! Some wholesalers* like Watson offer clone batteries for other brands without this cheat-resistor but a real temperature sensor: So it can be done.
*I call them wholesalers because they are not manufacturers but buy them in China.
Then they add their own logo.


To me this is a bit similar to cheap quality gasoline.
In Europe standard E5 gasoline has 5% added bioethanol (manufactured out rapeseed etc.)
but there is cheaper E10 gasolne with 10% of that stuff.

The manufacturers (and government) claim there is no danger for motors but this is rubbish.

So my point is: I warn those who ask questions and I think those who give recommendations but know of possible dangers should mention those dangers (as many happily do when the solenoid is involved)


Then it is up to the buyer but.... one knows!

[ZombieArmy]

Read and digest my review of the original D-LI109 here:
Pentax D-LI109 Rechargeable Battery reviews - Pentax Camera Accessory Review Database
and thus safe money by not buying cheap
NONE, I have verified this, none of the 3rd party batteries have the protection you need to avoid the danger of the battery swelling or if worst, exploding.
The 3rd T-contact is for temperature control
the 4th D-contact (Data) is also for correct charging of both cells, i.e. to stop charging one of the cells when it is full but continue charging the other cell.
Because the D-LI109 uses flat cells it is more prone to swell than the larger D-LI90 with round cells.
But the larger D-LI90 (for the K3/1 etc) in ALL clone versions has the same cheating circuits, i.e. false T-contact with dummy resistor and lacking D-contact.

Thanks for this information. I'll avoid the D-LI109 aftermarket batteries then. Kind of glad I got the grip for my KP so I can use the D-LI90s as well.

[E-man]

For my K10D and K20D, I use Kastar batteries. They seem to work quite well and are reasonably priced. They have a low self-discharge rate, so they can sit in my camera bag for a while and still have juice. For my K30, I invested $3 in an aftermarket AA battery holder and quit using D-Li109 batteries altogether. I find Eneloops are far more satisfactory.

[photogem]

For my K10D and K20D, I use Kastar batteries. They seem to work quite well and are reasonably priced. They have a low self-discharge rate, so they can sit in my camera bag for a while and still have juice.

The K10D and K20D batteries are the same as the ones for the Sigma SD DSLRs.

So there is a chance to find still good quality. I still have original Pentax D-LI50's and they hold their charge quite well.
The D-LI50 was the last one having just 2 pins (+ / -) but used highest quality Japanese Panasonic cells.

For my K30, I invested $3 in an aftermarket AA battery holder and quit using D-Li109 batteries altogether. I find Eneloops are far more satisfactory.

For K-30/50/500 and K-r owners this was a good possibility, Eneloop Pro AAs deliver 2450mA/h which is more than double of the D-LI109.
But they are also heavier.

[Michail_P]

People have already mentioned Watson. Wasabi is the other more or less 'top-tier' off brand.

Wasabi works great for me. It’s equivalent to the original.

[photogem]

Wasabi works great for me. It’s equivalent to the original.

If it would be an equivalent, it would have the T-Sensor inside and the charger would measure temperature as well.
So it is not an equivalent = equal.

Also due to the fact that charging stops when one cell is full and thus the other cell doesn't get charged anymore:
Sooner than later less capacity.

[K70Greg]

Great Info folks, that I had not considered at the start.

[ColinK70]

I have been using a Hahnel HL-PL109 battery in my K70 for about two years now, very similar performance to the original Pentax battery, no issues so far.

[larryaustin3]

For what it's worth - I have had a Watson battery swell up in my Fuji X-T3. It was a challenge to get out without damage to the camera body.

I had a similar experience with another off-brand battery for my Sony. I'm reluctant to use other brands anymore. It's not worth risking damage, and for what? A battery that doesn't
give you as many photos per charge as the name brand anyway?

[Michail_P]

If it would be an equivalent, it would have the T-Sensor inside and the charger would measure temperature as well.
So it is not an equivalent = equal.

Also due to the fact that charging stops when one cell is full and thus the other cell doesn't get charged anymore:
Sooner than later less capacity.

Technicalities are always useful. I meant I can pretty much do the same amount of work before it gets really low.

[photogem]

I have been using a Hahnel HL-PL109 battery in my K70 for about two years now, very similar performance to the original Pentax battery, no issues so far.

Hähnel was once a good company but since they moved to Ireland they no longer manufacture but just buy them and add their logo.
Best example their Cube-chargers (not for Pentax but Canon, Nikon, Sony etc):
The same one is offered by Manfrotto. I guess if one searches long enough on Aliexpress one will find it much cheaper but with a different name.

As far as I know Hähnel Li-Ions are from the same source as Ansmann.
The Hähnel HL-PL109 was one of those I had which did swell and made it very difficult to get out of the Pentax.
Also they lose capacity over the time.

The biggest cheat is the one offered by Amsahr
As if there are batteries still made by Hoya!