Clackers' Beginners Tip 55: The Hold Setting in AF-C autofocus

**clackers** · 01-06-2023, 12:15 AM - **15 Likes**

Good morning all, I'm pretty excited. I've just invented the first thought controlled air freshener.

It does make scents when you think about it.

Things have been rocky on the home front, though, there's been 'trouble in paradise', as they say.

I asked my wife, 'Whenever I get mad at you, you never seem to get upset. How do you manage to control your temper?'

She said, 'I just go and clean the toilet.'

I asked, 'How does that help?'

'I use your toothbrush.' she replied.

This week, I want to talk about photos of a specific person at a sports event. You'll want some photos of them preparing, often with a wide angle lens close up, because they'll be intimate, and once the event starts your photos will be different, they'll be with a tele at a distance.

You'll also want them celebrating a goal, or crossing the finish line or whatever, these are the key moments, the most likely to generate a keeper, the one they'll put up on Instagram.

In between, try and find a spot where ideally - the sun is behind you, so on their face, the background is distant and has minimal distractions (ideally, darker than the subjects). Quality bokeh is possible by the ratio of how closer to you the subject is than the fences or buildings or whatever are behind them.

Forget about being comfortable, you really need to roam the venue to find such a spot. Bring a collapsible seat if necessary, remembering you will need to head back to the finish line or where the players leave the arena in time for the end of the activity.

The Hold setting in Pentax AF-C is there if you notice there are gaps to a contrasty background you're passing over, it lets the camera know you don't want to jump to it. It is excellent for following your subject and it will not jump immediately to another person passing in front of them or to the background trees. In a sport like soccer, your view of the subject is being blocked repeatedly during play, and this setting helps with that.

I've seen some people suggest to leave AF Hold off if the subject is in clear view. But if it's moving, and someone's tracking and panning photography skills are not up to the motion, the camera correctly detects that the AF point is now on the background, and is never be able to catch up when the owner finally moves it back to the subject, so the whole sequence is ruined. And then they will post on the internet that their camera can't do sports.

I would say, scenario dependent, it's actually the safest for a beginner, it's more forgiving of errors. It's *permanently* on for me, and so is Back Button Focus, for example, in case I forget in the excitement of setting up for a quick shot of some action.

Should an owner set the Hold to L, M or H?

Well, that's on the owner's accuracy, and the timing of any obstacles between the lens and the subject, which is why the setting is variable, and why high end Canikony models have it too.

To finish with is the story of Morris and his wife Esther who go to the state fair every year, and every year Morris would say, 'Esther, I'd like to ride in that helicopter.' Esther always replied,

'I know Morris, but that Helicopter ride is fifty dollars, and fifty dollars is fifty dollars.'

One year Esther and Morris went to the fair, and Morris said, 'Esther, I'm 85 Years old. If I don't ride that helicopter, I might never get another chance.' To this, Esther replied, 'Morris that helicopter ride is fifty dollars, and fifty dollars is fifty dollars.'

The pilot overheard the couple and said, 'Folks I'll make you a deal, I can't stand your bickering. I'll take both of you for a ride, and if you can stay quiet for the entire ride and not say a word, I won't charge you. But if you say one word, it's fifty dollars.'

Morris and Esther agreed and up they went. The pilot did all kinds of fancy maneuvers, but not a word was heard. He did his daredevil tricks over and over again, but still not a word.

When they landed, the pilot turned to Morris and said, 'By golly, I did everything I could to get you to yell out, but you didn't. I'm impressed!'

Morris replied, 'Well, to tell you the truth, I almost said something when Esther fell out, but you know, fifty dollars is fifty dollars.’

Find the rest of the series here: Clackers' Beginners Tips (Collected) - PentaxForums.com

**yucatanPentax** · 01-06-2023, 01:23 AM - **5 Likes**

After so many years, I've lost all my hair, but I still carry my favorite comb in my back pocket.
I just can't part with it!

I don't know if that's one you told or not, Ian, but for whatever reason, it keeps popping up in my head and making me laugh.

The first money I earned in photography was shooting HS basketball (sometimes even Jr High) for small town weekly newspapers. They didn't hire me as an employee though. We lived within 30-40 minutes of about a dozen small towns and most had a newspaper. So, I'd go to games, set up, get a few dramatic shots, develop them in the bathroom at home and be at the newspaper offices the next morning. They'd sort through the prints, choose a few and pay me around 50 cents for each one chosen. Usually I'd sell $2-3 dollars worth. If I was lucky enough to catch their weekly paper, I'd see my name in the credits. That was maybe the reason I did it. Who knows? But with gasoline 30 cents a gallon, $2-3 dollars from each paper kept me rolling.

Long story short (too late?), this advice is right on the money:

Quote:

In between, try and find a spot where ideally - the sun is behind you, so on their face, the background is distant and has minimal distractions (ideally, darker than the subjects). Quality bokeh is possible by the ratio of how closer to you the subject is than the fences or buildings or whatever are behind them.

Forget about being comfortable, you really need to roam the venue to find such a spot. Bring a collapsible seat if necessary, remembering you will need to head back to the finish line or where the players leave the arena in time for the end of the activity.

For basketball, I often found myself sitting on the edge of the stage (combo auditorium/gyms) near the basket, but enough of an angle to capture players and basket. Not the most comfortable place to be. Definitely not the most inconspicuous. But it gave shots with the player(s) close, the spectators far, and decent lighting or an outlet for my flash.

Position is everything. Understand the sport and scope out the best spot.

Thanks for another great tip!

PKSiss · 01-06-2023, 10:37 AM

When you say "hold" (when using back button focus), do you mean we should keep our finger on the back button so that it follows the subject, or do you mean that we should let go and have it stay at (or hold) the focus point set when you first pushed it?

pschlute · 01-06-2023, 02:51 PM - **4 Likes**

Originally posted by PKSiss

When you say "hold" (when using back button focus), do you mean we should keep our finger on the back button so that it follows the subject, or do you mean that we should let go and have it stay at (or hold) the focus point set when you first pushed it?

Neither. "Hold" is a setting within the camera AF menu. It tells the camera when in AF-C mode whether it should be constantly looking to change AF or to "hold" the aquired AF lock once achieved for a little amount of time.

eg if you are tracking a horse rider and your AF points momentarily move off the subject you do not want the AF to immediately try and focus on the trees in the background. This is where the "hold" settings come into play.

PKSiss · 01-06-2023, 08:47 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by pschlute

Neither. "Hold" is a setting within the camera AF menu. It tells the camera when in AF-C mode whether it should be constantly looking to change AF or to "hold" the aquired AF lock once achieved for a little amount of time.

eg if you are tracking a horse rider and your AF points momentarily move off the subject you do not want the AF to immediately try and focus on the trees in the background. This is where the "hold" settings come into play.

Thank you! Yet one more thing I didn't know. That one will definitely be helpful. : )

**yucatanPentax** · 01-06-2023, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by PKSiss

Thank you! Yet one more thing I didn't know. That one will definitely be helpful. : )

I agree. So interesting learning about these "deeper" features and settings. I need more time to spend on my cameras!

kypfer · 01-07-2023, 03:18 AM

I'm a bit ambivalent about the Hold settings … theoretically useful against a cluttered background with a panning shot, assuming you and/or the camera locked on to the subject in the first place, but with a subject moving towards or away from you, even if only obliquely, the focus is always going to be chasing the subject (isn't it?).
What I would be happier with is knowing what sort of a delay (fractions of a second?) each Hold setting uses so's I might make an informed decision as to whether to use Hold or not.

"$50 is $50" … my kind of man

biz-engineer · 01-07-2023, 04:33 AM

AF hold is mostly useful for subject moving across the frame, but AF hold lowers reactivity when tracking subjects coming towards the camera or going away from the camera. It would be nice to have e.g the back button AF assigned to enable / disable AF hold in real time that the user can toggle depending on subject direction, coz having to go thru the camera menu is too slow.

gatorguy · 01-07-2023, 05:03 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

AF hold is mostly useful for subject moving across the frame, but AF hold lowers reactivity when tracking subjects coming towards the camera or going away from the camera. It would be nice to have e.g the back button AF assigned to enable / disable AF hold in real time that the user can toggle depending on subject direction, coz having to go thru the camera menu is too slow.

That's relatively simple to set up on the K3III, can be changed in a couple of seconds, and avoids having to go thru the menu to do so. Smart functions.

biz-engineer · 01-07-2023, 06:03 AM

Originally posted by gatorguy

That's relatively simple to set up on the K3III, can be changed in a couple of seconds, and avoids having to go thru the menu to do so. Smart functions.

Unfortunately not full frame, I'll pass.

pschlute · 01-07-2023, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

It would be nice to have e.g the back button AF assigned to enable / disable AF hold in real time that the user can toggle depending on subject direction, coz having to go thru the camera menu is too slow.

Can you use the USER modes to give you something similar ?

biz-engineer · 01-07-2023, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by pschlute

Can you use the USER modes to give you something similar ?

Yes, but I actually meant being able to enable/disable AF hold by pressing a button while looking through the viewfinder. Like the back button AF can also be used to cancel AF.

**clackers** · 01-08-2023, 07:41 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by kypfer

theoretically useful against a cluttered background with a panning shot, assuming you and/or the camera locked on to the subject in the first place, but with a subject moving towards or away from you, even if only obliquely, the focus is always going to be chasing the subject (isn't it?).

I've noticed no difference at all in approaching or receding subjects to focus acquisition speed with the setting on or off, Kypfer!

I now just leave it on full time and use back button AF-C, even with stationary subjects, I don't flick from one user mode to another.

gatorguy · 01-08-2023, 07:45 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Unfortunately not full frame, I'll pass.

My assumption would be that it's also a feature on the if/when K1III.

**photogem** · 01-09-2023, 06:31 AM

Originally posted by clackers

I now just leave it on full time and use back button AF-C, even with stationary subjects, I don't flick from one user mode to another.

That's how I have it set my KP and K-S1 and before K3 and K5IIs.
With the K5IIs it was the first time and since then always exept of course my K5 and K200D with Katzeye focusing screen.

01-06-2023, 12:15 AM - 15 Likes	#1
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Clackers' Beginners Tip 55: The Hold Setting in AF-C autofocus Good morning all, I'm pretty excited. I've just invented the first thought controlled air freshener. It does make scents when you think about it. Things have been rocky on the home front, though, there's been 'trouble in paradise', as they say. I asked my wife, 'Whenever I get mad at you, you never seem to get upset. How do you manage to control your temper?' She said, 'I just go and clean the toilet.' I asked, 'How does that help?' 'I use your toothbrush.' she replied. This week, I want to talk about photos of a specific person at a sports event. You'll want some photos of them preparing, often with a wide angle lens close up, because they'll be intimate, and once the event starts your photos will be different, they'll be with a tele at a distance. You'll also want them celebrating a goal, or crossing the finish line or whatever, these are the key moments, the most likely to generate a keeper, the one they'll put up on Instagram. In between, try and find a spot where ideally - the sun is behind you, so on their face, the background is distant and has minimal distractions (ideally, darker than the subjects). Quality bokeh is possible by the ratio of how closer to you the subject is than the fences or buildings or whatever are behind them. Forget about being comfortable, you really need to roam the venue to find such a spot. Bring a collapsible seat if necessary, remembering you will need to head back to the finish line or where the players leave the arena in time for the end of the activity. The Hold setting in Pentax AF-C is there if you notice there are gaps to a contrasty background you're passing over, it lets the camera know you don't want to jump to it. It is excellent for following your subject and it will not jump immediately to another person passing in front of them or to the background trees. In a sport like soccer, your view of the subject is being blocked repeatedly during play, and this setting helps with that. I've seen some people suggest to leave AF Hold off if the subject is in clear view. But if it's moving, and someone's tracking and panning photography skills are not up to the motion, the camera correctly detects that the AF point is now on the background, and is never be able to catch up when the owner finally moves it back to the subject, so the whole sequence is ruined. And then they will post on the internet that their camera can't do sports. I would say, scenario dependent, it's actually the safest for a beginner, it's more forgiving of errors. It's permanently on for me, and so is Back Button Focus, for example, in case I forget in the excitement of setting up for a quick shot of some action. Should an owner set the Hold to L, M or H? Well, that's on the owner's accuracy, and the timing of any obstacles between the lens and the subject, which is why the setting is variable, and why high end Canikony models have it too. To finish with is the story of Morris and his wife Esther who go to the state fair every year, and every year Morris would say, 'Esther, I'd like to ride in that helicopter.' Esther always replied, 'I know Morris, but that Helicopter ride is fifty dollars, and fifty dollars is fifty dollars.' One year Esther and Morris went to the fair, and Morris said, 'Esther, I'm 85 Years old. If I don't ride that helicopter, I might never get another chance.' To this, Esther replied, 'Morris that helicopter ride is fifty dollars, and fifty dollars is fifty dollars.' The pilot overheard the couple and said, 'Folks I'll make you a deal, I can't stand your bickering. I'll take both of you for a ride, and if you can stay quiet for the entire ride and not say a word, I won't charge you. But if you say one word, it's fifty dollars.' Morris and Esther agreed and up they went. The pilot did all kinds of fancy maneuvers, but not a word was heard. He did his daredevil tricks over and over again, but still not a word. When they landed, the pilot turned to Morris and said, 'By golly, I did everything I could to get you to yell out, but you didn't. I'm impressed!' Morris replied, 'Well, to tell you the truth, I almost said something when Esther fell out, but you know, fifty dollars is fifty dollars.’ Find the rest of the series here: Clackers' Beginners Tips (Collected) - PentaxForums.com

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01-06-2023, 01:23 AM - 5 Likes	#2
yucatanPentax Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Dallas / Yucatan Posts: 1,840	After so many years, I've lost all my hair, but I still carry my favorite comb in my back pocket. I just can't part with it! I don't know if that's one you told or not, Ian, but for whatever reason, it keeps popping up in my head and making me laugh. The first money I earned in photography was shooting HS basketball (sometimes even Jr High) for small town weekly newspapers. They didn't hire me as an employee though. We lived within 30-40 minutes of about a dozen small towns and most had a newspaper. So, I'd go to games, set up, get a few dramatic shots, develop them in the bathroom at home and be at the newspaper offices the next morning. They'd sort through the prints, choose a few and pay me around 50 cents for each one chosen. Usually I'd sell $2-3 dollars worth. If I was lucky enough to catch their weekly paper, I'd see my name in the credits. That was maybe the reason I did it. Who knows? But with gasoline 30 cents a gallon, $2-3 dollars from each paper kept me rolling. Long story short (too late?), this advice is right on the money: Quote: In between, try and find a spot where ideally - the sun is behind you, so on their face, the background is distant and has minimal distractions (ideally, darker than the subjects). Quality bokeh is possible by the ratio of how closer to you the subject is than the fences or buildings or whatever are behind them. Forget about being comfortable, you really need to roam the venue to find such a spot. Bring a collapsible seat if necessary, remembering you will need to head back to the finish line or where the players leave the arena in time for the end of the activity. For basketball, I often found myself sitting on the edge of the stage (combo auditorium/gyms) near the basket, but enough of an angle to capture players and basket. Not the most comfortable place to be. Definitely not the most inconspicuous. But it gave shots with the player(s) close, the spectators far, and decent lighting or an outlet for my flash. Position is everything. Understand the sport and scope out the best spot. Thanks for another great tip!

01-06-2023, 10:37 AM	#3
PKSiss Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2021 Posts: 27	When you say "hold" (when using back button focus), do you mean we should keep our finger on the back button so that it follows the subject, or do you mean that we should let go and have it stay at (or hold) the focus point set when you first pushed it?

01-06-2023, 02:51 PM - 4 Likes	#4
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,202	Originally posted by PKSiss When you say "hold" (when using back button focus), do you mean we should keep our finger on the back button so that it follows the subject, or do you mean that we should let go and have it stay at (or hold) the focus point set when you first pushed it? Neither. "Hold" is a setting within the camera AF menu. It tells the camera when in AF-C mode whether it should be constantly looking to change AF or to "hold" the aquired AF lock once achieved for a little amount of time. eg if you are tracking a horse rider and your AF points momentarily move off the subject you do not want the AF to immediately try and focus on the trees in the background. This is where the "hold" settings come into play.

01-06-2023, 08:47 PM - 1 Like	#5
PKSiss Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2021 Posts: 27	Originally posted by pschlute Neither. "Hold" is a setting within the camera AF menu. It tells the camera when in AF-C mode whether it should be constantly looking to change AF or to "hold" the aquired AF lock once achieved for a little amount of time. eg if you are tracking a horse rider and your AF points momentarily move off the subject you do not want the AF to immediately try and focus on the trees in the background. This is where the "hold" settings come into play. Thank you! Yet one more thing I didn't know. That one will definitely be helpful. : )

01-06-2023, 11:26 PM	#6
yucatanPentax Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Dallas / Yucatan Posts: 1,840	Originally posted by PKSiss Thank you! Yet one more thing I didn't know. That one will definitely be helpful. : ) I agree. So interesting learning about these "deeper" features and settings. I need more time to spend on my cameras!

01-07-2023, 03:18 AM	#7
kypfer Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Jersey C.I. Posts: 3,594	I'm a bit ambivalent about the Hold settings … theoretically useful against a cluttered background with a panning shot, assuming you and/or the camera locked on to the subject in the first place, but with a subject moving towards or away from you, even if only obliquely, the focus is always going to be chasing the subject (isn't it?). What I would be happier with is knowing what sort of a delay (fractions of a second?) each Hold setting uses so's I might make an informed decision as to whether to use Hold or not. "$50 is $50" … my kind of man

01-07-2023, 04:33 AM	#8
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	AF hold is mostly useful for subject moving across the frame, but AF hold lowers reactivity when tracking subjects coming towards the camera or going away from the camera. It would be nice to have e.g the back button AF assigned to enable / disable AF hold in real time that the user can toggle depending on subject direction, coz having to go thru the camera menu is too slow.

01-07-2023, 05:03 AM - 1 Like	#9
gatorguy Moderator Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Central Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,092	Originally posted by biz-engineer AF hold is mostly useful for subject moving across the frame, but AF hold lowers reactivity when tracking subjects coming towards the camera or going away from the camera. It would be nice to have e.g the back button AF assigned to enable / disable AF hold in real time that the user can toggle depending on subject direction, coz having to go thru the camera menu is too slow. That's relatively simple to set up on the K3III, can be changed in a couple of seconds, and avoids having to go thru the menu to do so. Smart functions.

01-07-2023, 06:03 AM	#10
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by gatorguy That's relatively simple to set up on the K3III, can be changed in a couple of seconds, and avoids having to go thru the menu to do so. Smart functions. Unfortunately not full frame, I'll pass.

01-07-2023, 08:54 AM	#11
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,202	Originally posted by biz-engineer It would be nice to have e.g the back button AF assigned to enable / disable AF hold in real time that the user can toggle depending on subject direction, coz having to go thru the camera menu is too slow. Can you use the USER modes to give you something similar ?

01-07-2023, 11:03 AM	#12
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by pschlute Can you use the USER modes to give you something similar ? Yes, but I actually meant being able to enable/disable AF hold by pressing a button while looking through the viewfinder. Like the back button AF can also be used to cancel AF.

01-08-2023, 07:41 PM - 1 Like	#13
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397 Original Poster	Originally posted by kypfer theoretically useful against a cluttered background with a panning shot, assuming you and/or the camera locked on to the subject in the first place, but with a subject moving towards or away from you, even if only obliquely, the focus is always going to be chasing the subject (isn't it?). I've noticed no difference at all in approaching or receding subjects to focus acquisition speed with the setting on or off, Kypfer! I now just leave it on full time and use back button AF-C, even with stationary subjects, I don't flick from one user mode to another.

01-08-2023, 07:45 PM - 1 Like	#14
gatorguy Moderator Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Central Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,092	Originally posted by biz-engineer Unfortunately not full frame, I'll pass. My assumption would be that it's also a feature on the if/when K1III.

01-09-2023, 06:31 AM	#15
photogem Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 3,520	Originally posted by clackers I now just leave it on full time and use back button AF-C, even with stationary subjects, I don't flick from one user mode to another. That's how I have it set my KP and K-S1 and before K3 and K5IIs. With the K5IIs it was the first time and since then always exept of course my K5 and K200D with Katzeye focusing screen.