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01-31-2009, 03:48 PM   #31
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I do shoot all my passive shots (landscapes etc.) with manual settings and when the situation needs speedy action the Av mode comes into play. With manual mode I use spot metering (and adjust exposure accordingly) if my subject is darker/lighter than medium gray surface AND if the subject is much more important than the rest of the scene.

01-31-2009, 05:05 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jewelltrail Quote
Well, unfortunately, we at the forum can not hear the lectures which are designed to complement the learning acquired through the homework. And, of course, the teacher is not here to speak for him/herself. All things stated in a lecture have a contextual meaning, preserved and defined within the context and parameters of the lecture itself.
When I learned to fly (among other things), it was always made 100% clear what the objective of the lesson was and what was expected of the students. Now, I'm an instructor, and the same rules still apply. If you don't know what the goal is, how could it be expected of you to attain that goal? Starting a lesson with a lie is not the proper way to go.
01-31-2009, 05:29 PM   #33
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QuoteQuote:
Flyer: When I learned to fly (among other things), it was always made 100% clear what the objective of the lesson was and what was expected of the students. Now, I'm an instructor, and the same rules still apply. If you don't know what the goal is, how could it be expected of you to attain that goal? Starting a lesson with a lie is not the proper way to go
Have you, personally, sat in on this teacher's lectures?
01-31-2009, 05:45 PM   #34
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It wasn't exactly asked, but anyway, running in full manual can be fun. Now I admit, the only serious camera I have experience with is a spotmatic f with NO auto anything, but I am still faster than a lot of people with full auto cameras.

Then again, my picures lack artistic appeal.

If you really want to have some fun - try taking a few rolls with no meter - just your gut instinct about the proper exposure. Many films are tolerant of this kind of work, although the digital cameras seems to be pickier about this concept.

I did this the first time while on a trip to Germany. The SP-F only uses a battery for the meter - and of course it was dead, so I just took pics with no meter. They are not something anyone would buy, but were sufficient for the purpose.

There is a place for all of the auto stuff and PP and fancy lenses, but in many situations, those are just a crutch. Even with my very limited reading, playing around, and just a 55mm lens on a 40 year old camera, it is easy to just avoid 90% of the very newbie mistakes I see pro / commercial photographers make every day.

Somehow, many have gotten into a mode where even the most basic flash and lighting concepts are ignored.

- Just how silly is it that the built in flash on a $ 1,000 + SLR is mounted mere 1- 2 cm from the lens ?

- Why is it so hard to get DSLR pictures to show real colors of skin and eyes ?

Don't these people ever take a picture of a child with large blue eyes ?

01-31-2009, 06:05 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by flyer Quote
When I learned to fly (among other things), it was always made 100% clear what the objective of the lesson was and what was expected of the students. Now, I'm an instructor, and the same rules still apply. If you don't know what the goal is, how could it be expected of you to attain that goal? Starting a lesson with a lie is not the proper way to go.
The object of the class is to teach you how to take better pictures verses making better pictures in PhotoShop after the fact. He is trying to teach us what the camera sees as far as color tones when it comes to light meters. In fact our first assignment is to put the camera in auto and use the spot meter and just go out and take photos of light, medium and dark tones without worrying about composition. I truly believe he is a good instructor and I will gain a lot from his class. Up until I went digital a few years back I shot only sides with a totally manual camera and loved it. I've been involved in photography since the late sixties and along with motorcycles it is my passion.
01-31-2009, 06:43 PM   #36
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He might be a good instructor and a good photographer, but I still think he should make the object of each lessons very clear, so you know where you're coming from and where you're going. Saying you'll get better exposures in manual is complete hogwash if you follow your lightmeter's indication. If it is to slow you down and make you think about what you are doing, then it's another story, but it should be made clear from the start.
01-31-2009, 07:28 PM   #37
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I shoot in manual 95% of the time. I like the ability to adjust the exposure one way or the other depending on a number of factors which include the mood I want to create, the mood I am in, the subject, among many others. When I am going from one location to another I switch to green mode. Why? Because if a shot presents itself there may not be time to adjust. It can, and has meant, getting that shot or not.
02-02-2009, 11:24 PM   #38
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For most of us, I think it's safe to say that the ultimate goal is to get good photos. If that's your goal, then the only compelling reason to shoot manual is that you think you can get better photos shooting manual - at least once you've gotten good at it.

I don't think the real question is whether you use M mode all the time or not. The question is, are in you in control of your exposures? On any camera, you can exercise control in Av or Tv modes. And on a K10D/K20D, in P (hyperprogram) mode, you can exercise an awful lot of control even in P mode, since in P, you can switch effectively into Tv or Av mode simply by moving one of the edials. If you know what you're doing in Av or Tv mode (or on a K10D/K20D, if you use hyperprogram as a better form of Tv or Av mode), and if you feel like you're really in complete control, and finally, if you're getting good results - I'm certainly not going to be the one to tell you you're doing something wrong!

So why do I personally shoot most of the time in M? Because I find it easier.

If I want the camera to give me its guess about the exposure, I just hit the green button. I know how to point the camera at the right part of the scene before hitting the green button - I don't usually point it at the sky. The green button is as easy as could be.

But of course if all I wanted to do was hit the green button, I would not bother with M. M is about me being in control. I keep my eye on the exposure indicator in the finder in M mode - and on the indicators in the finder that tell me what the shutter and aperture settings are. I personally find it MUCH easier to think in terms of the actual shutter speed and aperture and to look at the exposure indicator, than to think in terms of just ONE of those settings and to get what I want by making EV adjustments. To me, adjusting the EV in, say, aperture-priority mode to get the right exposure is just too indirect. By keeping my eye on the exposure meter, I know exactly what I'm doing at all times. If the meter says the shot is nominally underexposed, I know why it's underexposed and know whether I need to do anything about it or not.

Will

02-03-2009, 06:04 AM   #39
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if the world was a flat (i.e. 2 dimensional) 18% grey everywhere illuminated by difuse light what mode you shoot in would not matter, the camera would get it right every time

unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) the world is not like that.

the arguments made by flyer are very true.

1) regardless of mode, if you have a consistent method of working to correct exposure without a lot of trial and error, it is a valid way to get to the end objective.

2) It is also important to, as an instructor, explain why something is done, not just do it. The teaching is not in insisting that you use manual, but expplain exactly what you are adjusting for and why. It is also to teach how the camera works, how each mode works, etc... Because you won't get the end result or even a consistent method (i.e. point 1) without it.

the same is true, and forgive me for hijacking the thread momentairly, of the raw vs jpeg debate. Learning how JPEGs are processed and optimizing the in camera function can yeild the same results as RAW, and all the arguments about using raw are really just a compensation for NOT learning part of your camera's function. But this is not the purpose of the thread.

but, back to the purpose for the OP, making adjustments to get the end result, and whether M is the correct mode to do this.

the only thing with manual mode that is an advantage over all other modes (aside from working with Manual apature lenses where you need to) is that there is no coupling of controls, you can set each thing independant of the other, and the result is what your setup gives.

Other modes will some times give you things that go outside the bounds of what you want. In Av it can set the shutter incredibly slow, without you thinking about it. in Tv you can run out of apature range, with auto ISO it can with flash bump the ISO too hign and then use only minimum flash, etc....... it is too easy to forget all the ways some auto functions work, manual makes you think it through a little more, that is all!
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