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05-02-2009, 07:15 AM   #31
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I could post photos for the primes versus zooms debate. I can tell you for certain that at printing size and similar apertures you would have a hard time telling apart my DA* 16-50 at 35 mm and my DA 35 mm. The problem is that people dive into to photos to such an amazing degree that they see perceived differences that aren't really visible, even printed at A3 size. Of course, 35 mm is the strongest place in the DA zooms range. I could find other spots where it would need to be stopped down considerably to maintain sharpness.

05-02-2009, 07:37 AM   #32
ntx
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After reading some of you I think it's better to clear that I'm not against primes: my question comes from inexperience with them.
But if I can't get closer - the Venturi's list is a good starting point together with Marc Sabatella d point - I can't also figure what's the "cropping power" of the Nikon D1 (which was together me while taking shots at a cycling race in February), for example.
I often read about cropping (and also the softwares I use gives much relevance to cropping features) and now I read (in dpreview, for example) about the advantage to crop more than ever in tenths megapixels cameras... I just ask myself why, never caring if I need or not all that pixels. So, cause I would start using primes (and thinking to use them massively in many of my future shots), I asked myself if this attention about cropping is caused by the use of primes (zoom and superzoom should limit the need for cropping).

P.S.: In the meanwhile I ordered today my Pentax K200D with the 18-55 and the 50-200 kit lenses. I hope to enjoy it as soon as possible!

Bye
Jenner
05-02-2009, 10:58 AM   #33
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QuoteQuote:
ntx: I can't also figure what's the "cropping power" of the Nikon D1
Greater "Cropping Power," all other things equal between 2 cameras, goes to the one with more mega pixels.

QuoteQuote:
ntx: After reading some of you I think it's better to clear that I'm not against primes: my question comes from inexperience with them.
I do not think anyone thought you were against primes. We were just trying to explain the difference between them and a zoom.

ntx:P.S.: In the meanwhile I ordered today my Pentax K200D with the 18-55 and
QuoteQuote:
the 50-200 kit lenses. I hope to enjoy it as soon as possible!
Yes, enjoy and have fun with a great camera and lens setup. Like most things, doing it makes it much clearer than reading about it. Soon you will be posting advice for other new people.
05-02-2009, 11:46 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jewelltrail Quote
Proper composition eliminates the need to crop. More experienced shooters compose better and therefore need to crop less. Your thoughts apply to an inexperienced shooter, not yet skilled enough to maximize a prime's utility, but who might be able to compose better making use of the zoom's versatility.
QuoteOriginally posted by jbinpg Quote
It's been a while since I've read a more condescending post. There are many situations where cropping is needed. Not every photographer has his or her environment under such control that they are able to guarantee the "right" composition. Condescension reveals the narrow mind.
That post IS condescending, yet also fairly true. I trained in composition early, before being handed my first Brownie (quite young then), so skill in composition need not correlate with camera-handling experience. Indeed, I'm aware of all too many long-time shooters who couldn't compose their way out of a paper bag, handheld, who depend on labwork to make things right. If the finished product looks good to the client/employer/family, who cares how it got there?

Hopefully, we learn and improve - but do we have 20 years' experience, or 1 year's experience repeated 20 times? And does the naive eye see things the focused pro misses? Legendary art director Alexey Brodovitch, mentor to Richard Avedon and Irving Penn, told prospective photographers, "Start working without a camera. Cut out a window in a piece of cardboard and observe, discover and decide what to snap." But then do you miss what's outside the frame?

In the field, whether shooting with primes or zoom, I try to compose shots as carefully as time allows. (For some grab shots I can only hold the camera up, maybe on the end of a pole, trip the shutter, and hope.) Sometimes getting the desired subject REQUIRES including unwanted stuff in the frame - I won't climb over the fence the get a shot of those bison, so I must crop out the overhead wires. And sometimes I'll compose and capture an image, and in PP I'll decide that something just HAS to be removed. Cropping is integral to producing usable images (as are all the darkroom-Lightroom tricks, but that's another debate).

05-02-2009, 12:04 PM   #35
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QuoteQuote:
Rio Rico: Indeed, I'm aware of all too many long-time shooters who couldn't compose their way out of a paper bag, handheld, who depend on labwork to make things right. If the finished product looks good to the client/employer/family, who cares how it got there?

I agree, there is ineptitude in all professions. There is no such things as a %100 set rule for anything in life, but, in general, there is no replacement for experience. And of course all people have different learning curves.
05-02-2009, 02:46 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jewelltrail Quote
Like most things, doing it makes it much clearer than reading about it. Soon you will be posting advice for other new people.
You're right... but despite the fact that 650/700 euros are a small amount of money for many people (at least sometimes I think it's so), it's an relevant amount for me... so I would like to collect all the possible informations, making clean any doubt about what I have to buy.
I'm quite sure that I will laugh about my posts in a month from now... it's hard for me now to realize the difference between my S5500 and the K200D... and even figure how my workflow will change (now I often do pre-focusing for sport actions, my panning technique was developed on my current camera and I don't know how much is portable, same for macro, and can't figure how much of what I learn in this years could be used tomorrow...).

I need practice, that's sure, but I also must be sure of the step I'm doing.... so sorry if many of my post are a bit silly...

Thanks again.
Jenner
05-02-2009, 10:05 PM   #37
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You know, for what you describe above, with kids cycling races fairly close in and so on, you could do a whole lot worse than a DA*50-135 1.2.8.

Zoom or not, it can hold its own against any prime in the range unless you want "wide-open - tiny DOF" shots that don't seem to be what you want. It is an amazingly sharp lens, even wide open and exceptional a few stops down. If you really want to use it to the max couple it with DxO Optics Pro and correct the few abberations it has by PP.

Single lens, quick to zoom and focus, pin-sharp.

And, yes, I use a variety of great primes too, but it is still my favorite lens (other than my MF Kiron 105/2.5)!
05-05-2009, 11:50 PM   #38
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QuoteQuote:
You're right... but despite the fact that 650/700 euros are a small amount of money for many people (at least sometimes I think it's so), it's an relevant amount for me... so I would like to collect all the possible informations, making clean any doubt about what I have to buy.
I'm quite sure that I will laugh about my posts in a month from now... it's hard for me now to realize the difference between my S5500 and the K200D... and even figure how my workflow will change (now I often do pre-focusing for sport actions, my panning technique was developed on my current camera and I don't know how much is portable, same for macro, and can't figure how much of what I learn in this years could be used tomorrow...).

I need practice, that's sure, but I also must be sure of the step I'm doing.... so sorry if many of my post are a bit silly...

Thanks again.
Jenner
No, in no way do your posts seem silly at all. We are here to help, and enjoy doing so. 650 - 700 Euros is a lot of money for me too, because a camera is not a priority in my life--I understand. Reading through this forum can lead you to think some people find it easy to spend a whole lot of money on lenses, but there are also people here who struggle to get the absolute most out of the available money they have for this hobby. I understand.

In fact, I usually spend a couple of months, if not more, researching ( more months saving) a lens before I buy it. I post here, and in other forums, knocking on as many doors as possible to get the help I need. Some things you can not get from a forum, that was what I was getting at.

Welcome and best of luck to you with your new Pentax--I think you made a great choice.

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