Grand Prix advice

**robbiec** · 05-14-2009, 03:39 AM

Hey All,

I am planning on going to this years Belgian Grand Prix at Spa, will probably hang out in the Pouhon area of the track. Question... DA*200 f2.8 or DA*300F.4?, will be using Catch in Focus as that seems to work well in manual mode and pre focus on area I want. Anybody used these in action at a recent GP event?

Thanks,

Robbie

**ismaelg** · 05-14-2009, 04:01 AM

Personally, I'd sacrifice reach for the sake of speed. I'd go with the f2.8. You can always crop the surroundings. Of course that depends on how far you'll be from the action.
Catch in focus is a feature I'd love to have

Please wave and say hello to Barichello for me

Thanks,

flyer · 05-14-2009, 09:33 AM

At the speed the cars will be going, "catch in focus" might be off, since the cars will have time to move between the time the camera detects "in focus" and the time it will trigger the shutter. It is not a very long time, but with a car going around 200 km/h, it is still too long. If you really want to go that route, I would suggest you crank up the ISO to about 800 and use a smaller aperture to increase depth of field, while still keeping a shutter speed fast enough to freeze the cars. You will also realize that panning shots are very unpredictable in some situations with "catch in focus", depending wether the cars are moving toward you or across the frame. Good luck the same, and post some pictures. I would love to be there, since we don't have a F-1 race anymore in Montréal.

**robbiec** · 05-14-2009, 10:11 AM

Yep, I was only thinking about this today. This will be a complete learning exercise for me. Still I could always set it to manual, pre focus with a wider aperature as you suggest and through trial and error figure out when to press the button ;-)
Panning probably would be completely out of the question. Exiting Pouhon they will be going at >200Km/h, I'd get dizzy ;-)

Wheatfield · 05-14-2009, 10:30 AM

I'd forget about catch in focus and instead just push the button at the right time. It isn't hard to prefocus on a specific part of the track and push the button when the car enters it.
This is how race photography tends to be done by the big boys.

xjjohnno · 05-15-2009, 12:44 AM

Placing yourself at the slower corners of the track might be an idea. When I go to take pics of the motorbike racing I use the 2 slowest corners on the Phillip Island track. An added benefit is the passing that tends to happen on those corners as well as the excursions into the kitty litter.

Robert S Donovan · 05-15-2009, 05:38 AM

Be sure to look around at what else is going on. I have shot thousands of race cars in action but it's the shots of the fans and other ambiance at the races that I always come back to. If you get a chance to tour the paddock try and get some good detail shots. Also, I suggest you try some longer exposure shots and experiment with motion blur to capture the sense of speed. Throw a wide angle in your bag to go with the telephoto. I'm betting you'll dig the W/A shots more than the tight ones

fractal · 05-16-2009, 12:31 AM

If you do have a good chance at getting shots whilst panning it is definitely worth noting what Robert said and have a play around with longer exposures to capture some motion blur. I had a go at this when i went to the Macau GP and walked away with at least a couple of motion blur shots i was happy with.

As a side note, i would not follow xjjohnno's other advice to take to any of the F1 cars with an angle grinder.. that just won't win you friends.

xjjohnno · 05-16-2009, 01:21 AM

Originally posted by fractal

As a side note, i would not follow xjjohnno's other advice to take to any of the F1 cars with an angle grinder.. that just won't win you friends.

Unless they want to ride F1 class motor bikes.

PDL · 05-16-2009, 02:36 PM

De-couple AF from the shutter button. Use AF to predetermine the correct "focus spot" and CALCULATE the DOF that you need. Know the parameters of the shot to determine what ISO/shutter/fstop to achieve the desired results. Blurr/no blurr/panning/ no panning.

You have to UNDERSTAND the sport before you can expect decent results.

When the cars come into view - that you have predetermined. Blast away. If you find yourself wondering "what would happen if I changed this?" and spend all your time chimping - you will miss the good shots and spend most of your time second guessing yourself.

Do your homework before you get there - or spend the "early time" setting up for the action.

Don't let the camera determine all the factors. You pick the focus - not the camera. Set the camera up so it will not "try" to focus everytime you push the shutter button - it will pick something IT wants - like the head of the guy in front of you. You pick the shutter speed or DOF. If you are confident enough that the camera can make these descisions for you then let it determine the f/stop and/or shutter.

If you just set the camera into P&S mode - then don't come back here and complain that the images didn't come out as you thought they should.

Edit: Remember - this is an SLR - if you see the "money shot" in the viewfinder - you missed it.

The Elitist - formerly known as PDL

**robbiec** · 05-16-2009, 08:42 PM

I will be perfectly happy to come away with one clear shot of an F1 commited through a corner. Not one to complain. I am the one controlling the camera ;-)

Thanks everybody for for hints and observations. I have a couple of months to practise at local kart meets, if anything they should be harder to get, slower but a lot smaller.

Stratman · 05-17-2009, 08:49 PM

I would try to get to one of the slower sections of the track ( although, I know there aren't many there ) Like La Source, or the bus stop. I don't know if you can position yourself there, but I think that would be an ideal place from which to shoot ...

By the way, I am seriously jealous, I would love to see a race at Spa !! probably my fave F1 track of all...

**robbiec** · 05-17-2009, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by Stratman

I would try to get to one of the slower sections of the track ( although, I know there aren't many there ) Like La Source, or the bus stop. I don't know if you can position yourself there, but I think that would be an ideal place from which to shoot ...

By the way, I am seriously jealous, I would love to see a race at Spa !! probably my fave F1 track of all...

Yep it seems to be one of the last real tracks left! All the rest are of the newer Tilke design

The main reason I want to go to Pouhon is to see what these cars are really capable of... that is hearing a screaming V8 at 18,000 rpm, twitching as the get the power down and pulling 3+ G

, if it rains which is a possibility even better

Stratman · 05-18-2009, 04:16 AM

Haha, yeah, I understand. I am looking forward to seeing your photos from the race !!

Skyntara · 05-18-2009, 05:18 AM

I've tried catch in focus with motorbikes and they're way too fast for it.

Best bet is to pre-focus on a point and use a wired remote. Don't bother watching through the viewfinder as it's all too fast on telephoto. When the car enters the right spot hit the shutter release.

You might have to pre-empt it a bit but the good thing about races is that most cars go at the same speed so once you get it right you will be dead on.

Edit: Oh and depending on the angle you may need your shutter really really fast. If you use a 300mm and they're going across frame at 200km/h+ depending on how much of the frame you fill you could need 1/2000+ shutterspeed. If you add a little angle or move back a bit it becomes more manageable.

05-14-2009, 03:39 AM	#1
robbiec Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cork Photos: Albums Posts: 1,882	Grand Prix advice Hey All, I am planning on going to this years Belgian Grand Prix at Spa, will probably hang out in the Pouhon area of the track. Question... DA200 f2.8 or DA300F.4?, will be using Catch in Focus as that seems to work well in manual mode and pre focus on area I want. Anybody used these in action at a recent GP event? Thanks, Robbie

05-16-2009, 02:36 PM	#10
PDL Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PNW USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,127	De-couple AF from the shutter button. Use AF to predetermine the correct "focus spot" and CALCULATE the DOF that you need. Know the parameters of the shot to determine what ISO/shutter/fstop to achieve the desired results. Blurr/no blurr/panning/ no panning. You have to UNDERSTAND the sport before you can expect decent results. When the cars come into view - that you have predetermined. Blast away. If you find yourself wondering "what would happen if I changed this?" and spend all your time chimping - you will miss the good shots and spend most of your time second guessing yourself. Do your homework before you get there - or spend the "early time" setting up for the action. Don't let the camera determine all the factors. You pick the focus - not the camera. Set the camera up so it will not "try" to focus everytime you push the shutter button - it will pick something IT wants - like the head of the guy in front of you. You pick the shutter speed or DOF. If you are confident enough that the camera can make these descisions for you then let it determine the f/stop and/or shutter. If you just set the camera into P&S mode - then don't come back here and complain that the images didn't come out as you thought they should. Edit: Remember - this is an SLR - if you see the "money shot" in the viewfinder - you missed it. The Elitist - formerly known as PDL Last edited by PDL; 05-16-2009 at 02:37 PM. Reason: edit --- duh!

05-17-2009, 08:49 PM	#12
Stratman Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: St Louis, Missouri U S A Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,464	I would try to get to one of the slower sections of the track ( although, I know there aren't many there ) Like La Source, or the bus stop. I don't know if you can position yourself there, but I think that would be an ideal place from which to shoot ... By the way, I am seriously jealous, I would love to see a race at Spa !! probably my fave F1 track of all... Last edited by Stratman; 05-17-2009 at 08:54 PM.

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05-14-2009, 04:01 AM	#2
ismaelg Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Puerto Rico Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,681	Personally, I'd sacrifice reach for the sake of speed. I'd go with the f2.8. You can always crop the surroundings. Of course that depends on how far you'll be from the action. Catch in focus is a feature I'd love to have Please wave and say hello to Barichello for me Thanks,

05-14-2009, 09:33 AM	#3
flyer Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ste-Anne des Plaines, Qc., Canada Posts: 2,013	At the speed the cars will be going, "catch in focus" might be off, since the cars will have time to move between the time the camera detects "in focus" and the time it will trigger the shutter. It is not a very long time, but with a car going around 200 km/h, it is still too long. If you really want to go that route, I would suggest you crank up the ISO to about 800 and use a smaller aperture to increase depth of field, while still keeping a shutter speed fast enough to freeze the cars. You will also realize that panning shots are very unpredictable in some situations with "catch in focus", depending wether the cars are moving toward you or across the frame. Good luck the same, and post some pictures. I would love to be there, since we don't have a F-1 race anymore in Montréal.

05-14-2009, 10:11 AM	#4
robbiec Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cork Photos: Albums Posts: 1,882 Original Poster	Yep, I was only thinking about this today. This will be a complete learning exercise for me. Still I could always set it to manual, pre focus with a wider aperature as you suggest and through trial and error figure out when to press the button ;-) Panning probably would be completely out of the question. Exiting Pouhon they will be going at >200Km/h, I'd get dizzy ;-)

05-14-2009, 10:30 AM	#5
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,976	I'd forget about catch in focus and instead just push the button at the right time. It isn't hard to prefocus on a specific part of the track and push the button when the car enters it. This is how race photography tends to be done by the big boys.

05-15-2009, 12:44 AM	#6
xjjohnno Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Melbourne Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,115	Placing yourself at the slower corners of the track might be an idea. When I go to take pics of the motorbike racing I use the 2 slowest corners on the Phillip Island track. An added benefit is the passing that tends to happen on those corners as well as the excursions into the kitty litter.

05-15-2009, 05:38 AM	#7
Robert S Donovan Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Anderson, SC Photos: Gallery Posts: 361	Be sure to look around at what else is going on. I have shot thousands of race cars in action but it's the shots of the fans and other ambiance at the races that I always come back to. If you get a chance to tour the paddock try and get some good detail shots. Also, I suggest you try some longer exposure shots and experiment with motion blur to capture the sense of speed. Throw a wide angle in your bag to go with the telephoto. I'm betting you'll dig the W/A shots more than the tight ones

05-16-2009, 12:31 AM	#8
fractal Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,547	If you do have a good chance at getting shots whilst panning it is definitely worth noting what Robert said and have a play around with longer exposures to capture some motion blur. I had a go at this when i went to the Macau GP and walked away with at least a couple of motion blur shots i was happy with. As a side note, i would not follow xjjohnno's other advice to take to any of the F1 cars with an angle grinder.. that just won't win you friends.

05-16-2009, 01:21 AM	#9
xjjohnno Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Melbourne Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,115	Originally posted by fractal As a side note, i would not follow xjjohnno's other advice to take to any of the F1 cars with an angle grinder.. that just won't win you friends. Unless they want to ride F1 class motor bikes.

05-16-2009, 08:42 PM	#11
robbiec Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cork Photos: Albums Posts: 1,882 Original Poster	I will be perfectly happy to come away with one clear shot of an F1 commited through a corner. Not one to complain. I am the one controlling the camera ;-) Thanks everybody for for hints and observations. I have a couple of months to practise at local kart meets, if anything they should be harder to get, slower but a lot smaller.

05-17-2009, 11:33 PM	#13
robbiec Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cork Photos: Albums Posts: 1,882 Original Poster	Originally posted by Stratman I would try to get to one of the slower sections of the track ( although, I know there aren't many there ) Like La Source, or the bus stop. I don't know if you can position yourself there, but I think that would be an ideal place from which to shoot ... By the way, I am seriously jealous, I would love to see a race at Spa !! probably my fave F1 track of all... Yep it seems to be one of the last real tracks left! All the rest are of the newer Tilke design The main reason I want to go to Pouhon is to see what these cars are really capable of... that is hearing a screaming V8 at 18,000 rpm, twitching as the get the power down and pulling 3+ G , if it rains which is a possibility even better

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05-18-2009, 04:16 AM	#14
Stratman Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: St Louis, Missouri U S A Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,464	Haha, yeah, I understand. I am looking forward to seeing your photos from the race !!

05-18-2009, 05:18 AM	#15
Skyntara Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney Posts: 157	I've tried catch in focus with motorbikes and they're way too fast for it. Best bet is to pre-focus on a point and use a wired remote. Don't bother watching through the viewfinder as it's all too fast on telephoto. When the car enters the right spot hit the shutter release. You might have to pre-empt it a bit but the good thing about races is that most cars go at the same speed so once you get it right you will be dead on. Edit: Oh and depending on the angle you may need your shutter really really fast. If you use a 300mm and they're going across frame at 200km/h+ depending on how much of the frame you fill you could need 1/2000+ shutterspeed. If you add a little angle or move back a bit it becomes more manageable.