New K20D owner questions...

alcc · 06-18-2009, 02:52 PM

Hello. I got a K20D and DA 35mm Ltd. a few weeks ago. Really like it thus far. Got a couple questions:

When I review shots on the LCD I see the image come up, and then a split second later the image gets "sharpened", but way excessively, with horrible jaggies/zippers on any off-horizontal straight edges. It's as if the display firmware used the worst sort of downsampling. Is that normal? I note I only see these excessive artifacts on the LCD reviews, not (nearly as much) in the uploaded files. Still, it's very annoying & I see no way to change that.

On a related note, I do see some demosaicing artifacts on the actual images, againmainly on high contrast straight edges. Not excessive (like on the review LCD), but a little more than I am used to seeing. I've dialed back to default non-fine sharpening, but no effect. Shooting raw & processed thru PPL doesn't affect it much either.

Photome shows my firmware is 1.0.1. Does update help the above?

palindrom · 06-18-2009, 03:21 PM

alcc,
LCDs make use of each color pixel separately, not as 3 coupled RGB pixels. When image preview finished loading, it displays as much details as possible. I find it useful since "sparkling" pictures are usually sharp

I won't help You with demosaicing but I can recommend trying dcraw for RAW development.

alcc · 06-19-2009, 12:26 AM

Palidrom,

Not sure I understand. You're saying the little preview LCD somehow displays differently than say my LCD monitors? If I reduce the size of the image on the monitor down to the same 2.7" it does not show such terrible jaggies.

Dom · 06-19-2009, 01:06 AM

VNG four colour interpolation colour smothing will help a lot with your demosaicing artifacts.

As for the camera screen having aliasing, it's just the way the screen is displaying you images it's only really meant for reviewing you photos. It's not got the resolving power of a computer monitor.

Hope this helps.

Quension · 06-19-2009, 06:05 AM

The camera's preview sharpening is normal, and just the way it is. I find it annoying too, although I've heard people say the K20D's is worse than other models (I have a K200D). palidrom is right that you eventually are able to sense a pattern in it, which helps judge if an image is usable or not, so maybe there's some use to it...

The camera LCD is slightly different from most computer displays in that alternate rows are offset slightly, making it more sensitive to diagonals, but that's about it.

**Rondec** · 06-19-2009, 07:50 AM

You have to remember that LCD screen is just to let you know if you got focus and exposure right. Anything else is probably expecting too much. I have the blinkies on at this point to tell about exposure in shadow and bright areas, which helps from an exposure standpoint.

K-9 · 06-19-2009, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by alcc

Hello. I got a K20D and DA 35mm Ltd. a few weeks ago. Really like it thus far. Got a couple questions:

When I review shots on the LCD I see the image come up, and then a split second later the image gets "sharpened", but way excessively, with horrible jaggies/zippers on any off-horizontal straight edges. It's as if the display firmware used the worst sort of downsampling. Is that normal? I note I only see these excessive artifacts on the LCD reviews, not (nearly as much) in the uploaded files. Still, it's very annoying & I see no way to change that.

On a related note, I do see some demosaicing artifacts on the actual images, againmainly on high contrast straight edges. Not excessive (like on the review LCD), but a little more than I am used to seeing. I've dialed back to default non-fine sharpening, but no effect. Shooting raw & processed thru PPL doesn't affect it much either.

Photome shows my firmware is 1.0.1. Does update help the above?

I believe the firmware 1.03 update only has to do with shake reduction, so what you have is all there is right now for the issues you are having.

alcc · 06-20-2009, 11:52 AM

Thanks to all for your info. I agree it's not a major thing, just distracting. I (mistakenly) thought it was shoddy downsizing/sampling. Good camera, great lens otherwise!

**Canada_Rockies** · 06-22-2009, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by alcc

Hello. I got a K20D and DA 35mm Ltd. a few weeks ago. Really like it thus far. Got a couple questions:

When I review shots on the LCD I see the image come up, and then a split second later the image gets "sharpened", but way excessively, with horrible jaggies/zippers on any off-horizontal straight edges. It's as if the display firmware used the worst sort of downsampling. Is that normal? I note I only see these excessive artifacts on the LCD reviews, not (nearly as much) in the uploaded files. Still, it's very annoying & I see no way to change that.

On a related note, I do see some demosaicing artifacts on the actual images, againmainly on high contrast straight edges. Not excessive (like on the review LCD), but a little more than I am used to seeing. I've dialed back to default non-fine sharpening, but no effect. Shooting raw & processed thru PPL doesn't affect it much either.

Photome shows my firmware is 1.0.1. Does update help the above?

Is it possible that you are shooting JPG and have the quality set on the low size? Try setting your JPG quality to **** and/or taking the shots in RAW.

06-18-2009, 02:52 PM	#1
alcc New Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 4	New K20D owner questions... Hello. I got a K20D and DA 35mm Ltd. a few weeks ago. Really like it thus far. Got a couple questions: When I review shots on the LCD I see the image come up, and then a split second later the image gets "sharpened", but way excessively, with horrible jaggies/zippers on any off-horizontal straight edges. It's as if the display firmware used the worst sort of downsampling. Is that normal? I note I only see these excessive artifacts on the LCD reviews, not (nearly as much) in the uploaded files. Still, it's very annoying & I see no way to change that. On a related note, I do see some demosaicing artifacts on the actual images, againmainly on high contrast straight edges. Not excessive (like on the review LCD), but a little more than I am used to seeing. I've dialed back to default non-fine sharpening, but no effect. Shooting raw & processed thru PPL doesn't affect it much either. Photome shows my firmware is 1.0.1. Does update help the above?

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06-18-2009, 03:21 PM	#2
palindrom Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wroclaw Photos: Gallery Posts: 54	alcc, LCDs make use of each color pixel separately, not as 3 coupled RGB pixels. When image preview finished loading, it displays as much details as possible. I find it useful since "sparkling" pictures are usually sharp I won't help You with demosaicing but I can recommend trying dcraw for RAW development.

06-19-2009, 12:26 AM	#3
alcc New Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 4 Original Poster	Palidrom, Not sure I understand. You're saying the little preview LCD somehow displays differently than say my LCD monitors? If I reduce the size of the image on the monitor down to the same 2.7" it does not show such terrible jaggies.

06-19-2009, 01:06 AM	#4
Dom Guest	VNG four colour interpolation colour smothing will help a lot with your demosaicing artifacts. As for the camera screen having aliasing, it's just the way the screen is displaying you images it's only really meant for reviewing you photos. It's not got the resolving power of a computer monitor. Hope this helps.

06-19-2009, 06:05 AM	#5
Quension Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: west coast USA Posts: 206	The camera's preview sharpening is normal, and just the way it is. I find it annoying too, although I've heard people say the K20D's is worse than other models (I have a K200D). palidrom is right that you eventually are able to sense a pattern in it, which helps judge if an image is usable or not, so maybe there's some use to it... The camera LCD is slightly different from most computer displays in that alternate rows are offset slightly, making it more sensitive to diagonals, but that's about it.

06-19-2009, 07:50 AM	#6
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	You have to remember that LCD screen is just to let you know if you got focus and exposure right. Anything else is probably expecting too much. I have the blinkies on at this point to tell about exposure in shadow and bright areas, which helps from an exposure standpoint.

06-19-2009, 08:03 AM	#7
K-9 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: USA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,971	Originally posted by alcc Hello. I got a K20D and DA 35mm Ltd. a few weeks ago. Really like it thus far. Got a couple questions: When I review shots on the LCD I see the image come up, and then a split second later the image gets "sharpened", but way excessively, with horrible jaggies/zippers on any off-horizontal straight edges. It's as if the display firmware used the worst sort of downsampling. Is that normal? I note I only see these excessive artifacts on the LCD reviews, not (nearly as much) in the uploaded files. Still, it's very annoying & I see no way to change that. On a related note, I do see some demosaicing artifacts on the actual images, againmainly on high contrast straight edges. Not excessive (like on the review LCD), but a little more than I am used to seeing. I've dialed back to default non-fine sharpening, but no effect. Shooting raw & processed thru PPL doesn't affect it much either. Photome shows my firmware is 1.0.1. Does update help the above? I believe the firmware 1.03 update only has to do with shake reduction, so what you have is all there is right now for the issues you are having.

06-20-2009, 11:52 AM	#8
alcc New Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 4 Original Poster	Thanks to all for your info. I agree it's not a major thing, just distracting. I (mistakenly) thought it was shoddy downsizing/sampling. Good camera, great lens otherwise!

06-22-2009, 01:27 PM	#9
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385	Originally posted by alcc Hello. I got a K20D and DA 35mm Ltd. a few weeks ago. Really like it thus far. Got a couple questions: When I review shots on the LCD I see the image come up, and then a split second later the image gets "sharpened", but way excessively, with horrible jaggies/zippers on any off-horizontal straight edges. It's as if the display firmware used the worst sort of downsampling. Is that normal? I note I only see these excessive artifacts on the LCD reviews, not (nearly as much) in the uploaded files. Still, it's very annoying & I see no way to change that. On a related note, I do see some demosaicing artifacts on the actual images, againmainly on high contrast straight edges. Not excessive (like on the review LCD), but a little more than I am used to seeing. I've dialed back to default non-fine sharpening, but no effect. Shooting raw & processed thru PPL doesn't affect it much either. Photome shows my firmware is 1.0.1. Does update help the above? Is it possible that you are shooting JPG and have the quality set on the low size? Try setting your JPG quality to **** and/or taking the shots in RAW.

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