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07-11-2009, 01:12 AM   #46
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I went out and about this arvo, ended up swapping over my 17-70 for another as my was having some issues getting focus, went through some of my photos and found the same ... effects I am complaining about.

One solution I found was to shoot in raw+ and change the black level, however is it a concern if I need to deliberately underexpose as it will show?

Once again an example,


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2523/3709519364_09c81cdbf6_o.jpg

07-11-2009, 01:16 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by C.W Tsorotes Quote
My spider senses are telling me something isn't right with my unit.
Problem with your unit? See a doctor.

Problems with how you use your camera? Read about "shoot to the right".

It means that to minimize noise in the photo you need to:

1. shoot RAW
2. Overexpose as much as you can without clipping the image (shooting to the right)
3. Use post process software (like photoshop, or Lightroom) to pull the exposure back.

This means, no JPEG's, no 5 stops under-exposure, and no straight from camera results.

All cameras need to be treated this way to get the best results. Even Canikons. Otherwise everything you are going adds to the noise.
07-11-2009, 01:26 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
Problem with your unit? See a doctor.

Problems with how you use your camera? Read about "shoot to the right".

It means that to minimize noise in the photo you need to:

1. shoot RAW
2. Overexpose as much as you can without clipping the image (shooting to the right)
3. Use post process software (like photoshop, or Lightroom) to pull the exposure back.

This means, no JPEG's, no 5 stops under-exposure, and no straight from camera results.

All cameras need to be treated this way to get the best results. Even Canikons. Otherwise everything you are going adds to the noise.
Thanks for that,

I'm tinkering with raw now, finding the difference is huge between jpg much prefer it next thing to buy is a 16gig card.

With shooting RAW i'm finding that the issue pretty much disappears, looks like no more JPG for me.
07-11-2009, 01:52 AM   #49
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Oh man, I never quite realised that this is on so many other low-light photos ive taken on my P&S cameras over the years!

I guess having 14.6MP you see things that you didn't notice on 5-6mp cameras!!!! I kinda feel dumb now.

However interestingly I seem to notice it much more on MS Picture Viewer yet on photoshop CS4 its far less pronounced.

Thanks to everyone whos put in their two cents.

07-11-2009, 01:57 AM   #50
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Here are some actual examples.

Step one: Overexposed about two stops, shot in RAW.



Step two: Pull the exposure back two stops, and adjust white balance.



100% crop of image. no noise reduction added



Now, what not to do.

JPEG shot at 2 stops under, and pushed up to the correct exposure.



100% crop:



All shot with K10D at iso 1600, handheld in crappy light. FA50 1.4 at 2.0


Glad to see you are leaving JPEG behind. Enjoy the new camera
07-11-2009, 02:07 AM   #51
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There was almost a part of me about to swing to the Nikon D90 lol

but personally I love this cameras feel & features, that fact that it even has an in-built intervalometer really suprised me.

But I see now the folly of my ways,
07-11-2009, 02:24 AM   #52
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Did you notice how my last two samples look like all the high iso tests you see when Pentax cameras are reviewed? I wonder why that is.

Now stop being woried about high ISO noise and get out and shoot some stuff. It must be the midle of the day in Australia right now.
07-11-2009, 08:35 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by C.W Tsorotes Quote
My spider senses are telling me something isn't right with my unit.
My spider sense tells me that every K-7 you put your hands on is going to have something not right with it.

07-11-2009, 10:18 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by C.W Tsorotes Quote
Take a look at the bottom near the receiver and PS3, and subwoofer. hmmm, im just not sure.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3522/3708946434_1ed28caf90_o.jpg
your not sure... but you have no experience or another camera to test it against? despite what everyone is telling you... oh man. where is Gooshin anyway?
07-11-2009, 05:38 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
your not sure... but you have no experience or another camera to test it against? despite what everyone is telling you... oh man. where is Gooshin anyway?
I said earlier that I have a K100D to test with. However now it makes sense that im comparing a 14mp vs 6mp unit. Ive gone back through alot of photos I took on my P&S camera and I notice the same sort of noise now on dark dark scenes, just never noticed it before in the past.

I'm still getting use to the camera..
07-11-2009, 07:52 PM   #56
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Really don't see what's wrong with any of the "noisy" shots posted here. Sure, there's "noise" or "grain", but nothing that seems to be egregious or indicative of a bad unit.
07-11-2009, 08:22 PM   #57
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Every digital photographer needs to know this!

QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
Here are some actual examples.

Step one: Overexposed about two stops, shot in RAW.



Step two: Pull the exposure back two stops, and adjust white balance.



100% crop of image. no noise reduction added



Now, what not to do.

JPEG shot at 2 stops under, and pushed up to the correct exposure.



100% crop:



All shot with K10D at iso 1600, handheld in crappy light. FA50 1.4 at 2.0


Glad to see you are leaving JPEG behind. Enjoy the new camera
KungPOW .. this is an extremely useful post. You've done a great job explaining the basics of how to work hi-ISO.

I think it should be a sticky in the "General Photography- Techniques and Styles" forum.
07-12-2009, 05:01 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by pawzitiv Quote
KungPOW .. this is an extremely useful post. You've done a great job explaining the basics of how to work hi-ISO.

I think it should be a sticky in the "General Photography- Techniques and Styles" forum.

more importantly, we need to send this to DPReview. so that they may finally know how high ISO should be done.
07-12-2009, 06:19 AM   #59
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Good news my initial doubts with this camera are gone, it's really grown on me in the last 24hrs.

A shot of the sky pretty much untouched, shot in RAW.

Sky High on Flickr - Photo Sharing!


1600 ISO of my parents cat, minimal tweaking, no flash.

Sky High on Flickr - Photo Sharing!


Using bracketting taking 5 shots at +/- 1 EV of my car and editted in Photomatix.

Audi - K7 + Photmatix on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

My cat Simba at 100iso 70mm with flash.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3426/3712263917_01d657cef2_m.jpg
07-12-2009, 07:57 AM   #60
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While your testing at strong underexposure may not be the norm, it is a useful test, at least to me. There is a lot of range of lighting in many shots, and it is all too easy to be happy with properly exposed areas and miss those details in the shadows.

You can always do like I did after my experiences with DSLR - go back to shooting film on a manual SLR and scan it. Of course, no one here would ever accuse me of being a serious photographer either.

Keep posting your shots. My wife wants a K-7. I told her she could keep her pentax P+S digital or have one of my ME Supers. That went well.
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