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07-29-2009, 10:07 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
says the man that gave up digital for film and bought a 1500 dollar scanner.

He's talking about an APS-C to APS-C body switch. I switched from APS-C (a type smaller than Pentax uses) to a 35mm film body. The effect in focal length justifies the switch and does not invalidate my argument. You on the other hand did switch from a 6MP body to a 14MP body.

07-29-2009, 10:10 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by mischivo Quote
He's talking about an APS-C to APS-C body switch. I switched from APS-C (a type smaller than Pentax uses) to a 35mm film body. The effect in focal length justifies the switch and does not invalidate my argument. You on the other hand did switch from a 6MP body to a 14MP body.
i also got an expanded ISO range and weather sealing , no regrets there.

although this new K7 is tempting me with its supposed night and day AF speed improvements.
07-29-2009, 10:14 AM   #18
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Your weather sealing is useless as most (if not all) of your lenses are not weather-sealed. Weather-sealing is only as strong as its weakest link.

Additionally, as far as I remember, your older camera went to ISO 3200. Your current one goes to ISO 6400. How often do you use it, and how useable is it?
07-29-2009, 10:23 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by mischivo Quote
Your weather sealing is useless as most (if not all) of your lenses are not weather-sealed. Weather-sealing is only as strong as its weakest link.

Additionally, as far as I remember, your older camera went to ISO 3200. Your current one goes to ISO 6400. How often do you use it, and how useable is it?
the locking mount is only one point of entry, whilst the rest of the camera is protected, a drop of rain into the shutter button hole or the selector knob would wreck much more havok than trying to bypass the somewhat tight locking seal at the mount.

as far as ISO goes, you have seen more shots from my camera than anyone else so why are you asking?

07-29-2009, 10:54 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by mischivo Quote
Your weather sealing is useless as most (if not all) of your lenses are not weather-sealed. Weather-sealing is only as strong as its weakest link.
That's not true if failure the weakest link isn't likely to break the whole chain. Water entering the wrong part of a camera can kill the whole thing instantly. But having a non-sealed lens on the camera is very unlikely to compromise the camera in that way. At worst, you might fry the lens electronics is you aren't careful. But chances are very low that water would come in to the camera via the lens and endanger the camera. I shoot this way quite often, and so have thousands of others since the days when Pentax introduced their first weather resistant camera.
07-29-2009, 11:45 AM   #21
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I agree now that lens upgrades and perfecting my skills are the direction I need to head in. I also need to perfect my PP. I know that a fisheye isn't the best choice for landscape but I just thought it would be a fun lens and that I could continue to use my DA L 18-55 for landscape until I can afford something as glorious as the DA 12-24. As for my Tamron 70-300, I put it up for sale this morning and have already had a request for my paypal addy so it is almost gone. I bought it earlier this year on an impulse and have not used it that often. I very very rarely do any sports shooting.

I think I'm going to pick up the DA 10-17 fisheye, although the Sigma 10-20 is still very tempting.
07-29-2009, 01:48 PM   #22
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You can use any focal length you want for landscapes, depending on your needs. I'm looking at the Sigma 10-20mm in the future as well. Sounds like a good lens at a good price.

With regards to the above re weathersealing, I agree having the body sealed is great even if the lens isn't. If I want to shoot in bad weather at the moment I go out with the kit lens - no big loss, but I've never worried too much about the body.
07-29-2009, 01:59 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
the locking mount is only one point of entry, whilst the rest of the camera is protected, a drop of rain into the shutter button hole or the selector knob would wreck much more havok than trying to bypass the somewhat tight locking seal at the mount.

as far as ISO goes, you have seen more shots from my camera than anyone else so why are you asking?
Please, you know as much as I do that you won't be taking any photos in the rain with your unprotected lenses. Forget the camera body for a second, and let's assume water won't enter through the lens mount. Water will enter your lenses, and having a weather protected body won't make a lick of a difference in this situation. In fact, for beginners, or those who don't really think things through, having a weather sealed body could potentially cause them to inadvertently jeopardize their fine glass because they gain a false sense of protection.

Perhaps you don't share my viewpoint because most of, if not all, your lenses are cheaper than your body. I'm in the opposite situation: the majority of my lenses are more expensive than the camera, and I'm talking about the original price of the digital camera body, not the film camera I use now. That camera is definitely cheaper than all of my lenses.

07-29-2009, 02:04 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
That's not true if failure the weakest link isn't likely to break the whole chain. Water entering the wrong part of a camera can kill the whole thing instantly. But having a non-sealed lens on the camera is very unlikely to compromise the camera in that way. At worst, you might fry the lens electronics is you aren't careful. But chances are very low that water would come in to the camera via the lens and endanger the camera. I shoot this way quite often, and so have thousands of others since the days when Pentax introduced their first weather resistant camera.
Great, water will enter through the lens and destroy the lens, even if it doesn't keep going and enter the camera. Now you have a broken lens because your camera was weather resistant and you decided to take it out for a stroll in the rain.
07-29-2009, 02:10 PM   #25
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thanks for thread jacking guys. please discuss your weather sealing qualms somewhere else.
07-29-2009, 02:19 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by cinaibur Quote
thanks for thread jacking guys. please discuss your weather sealing qualms somewhere else.
You're welcome. Let our very pertinent conversation be a lesson to you. If you choose lenses over a new body, make certain to purchase weather sealed lenses. That way, you'll have a weather resistant system when you make the jump to a new camera.
07-29-2009, 07:55 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by mischivo Quote
You're welcome. Let our very pertinent conversation be a lesson to you. If you choose lenses over a new body, make certain to purchase weather sealed lenses. That way, you'll have a weather resistant system when you make the jump to a new camera.
You could always put a plastic bag over your lens and seal off the tips with a rubber band
07-29-2009, 09:02 PM   #28
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I stayed with my K100 for 4 years before going to the K20 about 3 months ago. During that time, I invested in the lenses I was really interested in - about one a year - 10-17FE, 12-24, 16-45 and 55-300. I also picked up the two kit lenses for the K100. I would tend to go with lenses before a new body, for several reasons.

The KM/2000 is a very capable camera at 10MP, its only a 40% increase, and you will be increasing noise a bit. Also, the KM/2000 is a newer camera design as compared to the K20. It also retains the 10MP low noise sensor from the K10/K200. Some have speculated that the auto focusing is a bit better than the K20. Is there a specific reason to want to go beyond the KM right now - something that its not doing for you?

I like landscapes myself. I went through the same analysis on the 10-17 as you are. I also saved for over a year for the 12-24. The 12-24 is a very versatile lens. I will also say that one of the best images I have ever took was with the 10-17 because of the 180 degree FOV and everything was in motion (ships at sea) - however it was a special situation. The 12-24 will be much more useful. You could make the 10-17 into a more useful lens by defishing - but its an additional post processing step.

I upgraded because I felt I really needed the increased resolution - it was a 3x increase for me in the horizontal axis. Also the shooting modes, along with there were 2 modes on the same menu that I wanted to use at the same time, in a number of instances.

In another 18 months or so when a replacement for the K7 comes out, it will be selling for the same price as the K20 is now. Would you rather leapfrog a generation - or go to the same generation of camera as you currently have?

Also, the cost of glass is going up. Electronics will always be getting cheaper, so from the investment point of view - lenses at this time is a better choice.

Just some ideas.....
07-29-2009, 09:36 PM   #29
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Well said interested _observer, I'm probably going to keep my K-m/K2000 for another 2 years since I am still learning quite a bit. Even when I top it out sometime, I am going to keep it until 2 years from now just to save money. I would definitely leapfrog a generation or two rather than go for the same generation camera as mine. I really need to save up for these lenses =P
07-29-2009, 10:20 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by mischivo Quote
Great, water will enter through the lens and destroy the lens, even if it doesn't keep going and enter the camera. Now you have a broken lens because your camera was weather resistant and you decided to take it out for a stroll in the rain.
First, I didn't say I wouldn't be reasonably protective of my lenses - shielding them with plastic, for example. Second, says who water that enters a lens will destroy it? A sufficient quantity, sure. But a few drops - the same amount that might fry a camera's electronics - are very unlikely to harm a lens. Especially if your lens has no electronics - my favorite rain lens is the M28/2.8. My next favorite is the DA18-55, though, because I know that *if* it every fries, I can buy a WR replacement. I don't use my more expensive lenses in the rain unless they are completely protected from it.

Anyhow, point being, just because some might not ant to consider the possibility of using a weather sealed camera with unsealed lenses in the rain doesn't mean it isn't a perfectly viable option.
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