Help with Buildings where a portion is in the shade

41ants · 08-13-2009, 05:04 PM

I picked up a DA10-17 and was messing around with it shooting a brick building. The sky was overcast, actually it was just starting to rain with the sun high in the sky (1:45PM). I was specifically trying to photo an Archway, but was having problems getting the details of the brick on the front and underneath it in the shadow.

The first was at 1/125 f5.6 and I like how rich the color of the bricks are in this one, but the underneath portion is a bit too dark. So, the next one was at 1/90 f5.6. The sky and front looks blown out.

I am trying to figure out the happy medium? Should I have changed my focus point?

Last edited by Damn Brit; 08-13-2009 at 05:56 PM. Reason: Added IMGWIDE tags

Andi Lo · 08-13-2009, 05:16 PM

The second one. Shoot in raw, then darken the bricks a bit in postprocessing. Pushing shadows up will introduce noise, and DSLRs deal better with highlights than shadows (retains more detail). The blown sky isn't a problem in this shot because there's no detail even when it's not blown. It's very close to white and unless you expose it darker significantly it will just look white.

my 2c

pbo · 08-13-2009, 06:39 PM

I'm thinking other way... You can't restore blown highlights - say, trees to the left, but you can recover moderate shadows quite well if you shoot RAW - I remember someone showing how shadow details in Pentax K10D (dunno what OP's shooting) are quite good for pushing, and noise really isn't that apparent unless you go wild with it.
My advice would be to open the first picture in Photoshop and use Shadow/Highlights tool on the background copy layer. It's in Image->Adjustments->Shadow/Highlights. There are a lot of options there, though, so just to get you started, I'm thinking Tonal Width should be at ~25%, and then you adjust recovery percentage. If you feel like you're lighting up too much of an image (i.e. if you just want to brighten shadow area of the arc, but the brighter nes are also getting brighter), just decrease tonal width.
If you need more help, just ask.

Bo.

pbo · 08-13-2009, 06:45 PM

Oh, and there's an option of combining those two, but aligning will be a pain

get photomatix if you want to try that

noblepa · 08-13-2009, 08:36 PM

Another way to solve this problem would be to use a remotely triggered flash, in the archway, pointed up. I don't know if you could use a Pentax 360 or 540 p-ttl flash, with the on-camera flash as the controller or not. You could always use a radio trigger, or a very long synch cable.

You don't really need a flash for the outside of the archway, just the inside, so an on camera flash isn't necessary or desireable. You'd have to experiment with the placement and power setting for the flash.

Paul Noble

41ants · 08-14-2009, 06:20 AM

Thanks for all the suggestions. As usual, like everything in life, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Sorry for the lame analogy. I'm having fun trying to figure all this out.

LeDave · 08-14-2009, 06:54 AM

Could always try using a smaller aperture to help out the sky from being overblown, also maybe spot metering.

pbo · 08-14-2009, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Could always try using a smaller aperture to help out the sky from being overblown, also maybe spot metering.

If you use an aperture so small that sky becomes, eh... gray? The building will be pitch black with no hopes of recovery

If you use spot metering... Well, the whole picture will be overexposed since center is about in shadow area.

AndrewG NY · 08-14-2009, 09:36 AM

Also with K20D, try the expanded dynamic range feature (Fn+D-pad Right (ISO) 'D-Range').

If you're shooting JPEG, try reducing contrast.

I would suggest experimenting with these settings in a similar high-contrast scenario so you can be more comfortable with the impact each will have. Compare their histograms as well.

Most likely either of your original images could have been improved in the direction you are seeking using curves, reduced contrast, "fill lighting", etc.

atupdate · 08-14-2009, 09:47 AM

If all you are concerned about is the archway, there is a lot that can be done in post processing.

Tim

GerryL · 08-14-2009, 03:06 PM

You can try and play with HDR too for the heck of it.

Good PP softwares work too!

**Kerrowdown** · 08-15-2009, 12:25 PM

You could bracket exposures and combine in PP.

08-13-2009, 05:04 PM	#1
41ants Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: SRQ Photos: Albums Posts: 139	Help with Buildings where a portion is in the shade I picked up a DA10-17 and was messing around with it shooting a brick building. The sky was overcast, actually it was just starting to rain with the sun high in the sky (1:45PM). I was specifically trying to photo an Archway, but was having problems getting the details of the brick on the front and underneath it in the shadow. The first was at 1/125 f5.6 and I like how rich the color of the bricks are in this one, but the underneath portion is a bit too dark. So, the next one was at 1/90 f5.6. The sky and front looks blown out. I am trying to figure out the happy medium? Should I have changed my focus point? Last edited by Damn Brit; 08-13-2009 at 05:56 PM. Reason: Added IMGWIDE tags

08-13-2009, 05:16 PM	#2
Andi Lo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Posts: 2,924	The second one. Shoot in raw, then darken the bricks a bit in postprocessing. Pushing shadows up will introduce noise, and DSLRs deal better with highlights than shadows (retains more detail). The blown sky isn't a problem in this shot because there's no detail even when it's not blown. It's very close to white and unless you expose it darker significantly it will just look white. my 2c Last edited by Andi Lo; 08-13-2009 at 05:54 PM.

08-13-2009, 08:36 PM	#5
noblepa Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bay Village, Ohio USA Posts: 1,142	Remote flash Another way to solve this problem would be to use a remotely triggered flash, in the archway, pointed up. I don't know if you could use a Pentax 360 or 540 p-ttl flash, with the on-camera flash as the controller or not. You could always use a radio trigger, or a very long synch cable. You don't really need a flash for the outside of the archway, just the inside, so an on camera flash isn't necessary or desireable. You'd have to experiment with the placement and power setting for the flash. Paul Noble

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08-13-2009, 06:39 PM	#3
pbo Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 891	I'm thinking other way... You can't restore blown highlights - say, trees to the left, but you can recover moderate shadows quite well if you shoot RAW - I remember someone showing how shadow details in Pentax K10D (dunno what OP's shooting) are quite good for pushing, and noise really isn't that apparent unless you go wild with it. My advice would be to open the first picture in Photoshop and use Shadow/Highlights tool on the background copy layer. It's in Image->Adjustments->Shadow/Highlights. There are a lot of options there, though, so just to get you started, I'm thinking Tonal Width should be at ~25%, and then you adjust recovery percentage. If you feel like you're lighting up too much of an image (i.e. if you just want to brighten shadow area of the arc, but the brighter nes are also getting brighter), just decrease tonal width. If you need more help, just ask. Bo.

08-13-2009, 06:45 PM	#4
pbo Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 891	Oh, and there's an option of combining those two, but aligning will be a pain get photomatix if you want to try that

08-14-2009, 06:20 AM	#6
41ants Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: SRQ Photos: Albums Posts: 139 Original Poster	Thanks for all the suggestions. As usual, like everything in life, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Sorry for the lame analogy. I'm having fun trying to figure all this out.

08-14-2009, 06:54 AM	#7
LeDave Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Minneapolis - St. Paul Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,067	Could always try using a smaller aperture to help out the sky from being overblown, also maybe spot metering.

08-14-2009, 09:28 AM	#8
pbo Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 891	Quote: Could always try using a smaller aperture to help out the sky from being overblown, also maybe spot metering. If you use an aperture so small that sky becomes, eh... gray? The building will be pitch black with no hopes of recovery If you use spot metering... Well, the whole picture will be overexposed since center is about in shadow area.

08-14-2009, 09:36 AM	#9
AndrewG NY Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Chappaqua, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 688	Also with K20D, try the expanded dynamic range feature (Fn+D-pad Right (ISO) 'D-Range'). If you're shooting JPEG, try reducing contrast. I would suggest experimenting with these settings in a similar high-contrast scenario so you can be more comfortable with the impact each will have. Compare their histograms as well. Most likely either of your original images could have been improved in the direction you are seeking using curves, reduced contrast, "fill lighting", etc.

08-14-2009, 09:47 AM	#10
atupdate Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dayton, OH Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,724	If all you are concerned about is the archway, there is a lot that can be done in post processing. Tim

08-14-2009, 03:06 PM	#11
GerryL Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: CA Posts: 2,731	You can try and play with HDR too for the heck of it. Good PP softwares work too!

08-15-2009, 12:25 PM	#12
Kerrowdown PEG Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highlands of Scotland... "Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand" - William Blake Photos: Gallery Posts: 57,863	You could bracket exposures and combine in PP.