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11-14-2009, 01:10 AM   #1
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Metz 48 AF-1 sync problems?

I have a k200d and a Metz 48 AF-1
i'm using the metz in 'Remote slave flash mode' and the k200d's flash mode is set to wireless mode.

But I'm having some problems.
Some of my shots don't 'show' the effects of the off-camera flash. I notice that with shutter speeds of 1/50 or slower, the photos look as if the off-camera flash did not fire, when in reality it did.
Shouldn't it work between shutter speeds of 1/30 and 1/180 since that is the range I have?

i was playing around with it again earlier this morning and i realized sometimes even at 1/100 it doesn't 'sync'. the flash fires but the shots don't show the light.

a bit erratic.
What should I do?

11-14-2009, 01:51 AM   #2
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Disclaimer: I don't have the Pentax K200D nor the Metz 48, so my advise is worth exactly what you pay for it.

I think your K200D and Metz 48 are fine. The problem is in the setup.

Try these:

1. Use the same wireless setup, with the Metz 48 in front of a mirror, take a photo of the mirror. In the photo, is the Metz 48 firing?

2. Use the same wireless setup, but this time set the K200D to the 2 second delay timer. Take a test photo. When does the Metz 48 fires, before or after the mirror in the K200D goes up?
11-14-2009, 09:42 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by SOldBear Quote
Disclaimer: I don't have the Pentax K200D nor the Metz 48, so my advise is worth exactly what you pay for it.

I think your K200D and Metz 48 are fine. The problem is in the setup.

Try these:

1. Use the same wireless setup, with the Metz 48 in front of a mirror, take a photo of the mirror. In the photo, is the Metz 48 firing?

2. Use the same wireless setup, but this time set the K200D to the 2 second delay timer. Take a test photo. When does the Metz 48 fires, before or after the mirror in the K200D goes up?
Here are the results:

1. Yes flash fires.

2. It seems like both flashes fire twice. The first flashes might be the pre-flash. After 2 seconds, both flashes fire again. And yes, i can see the Metz firing.

BUT it seems in BOTH situations, whenever the flash unit is IN frame at all, i cannot see the flash firing. But if i put it out of frame (ie. not in the composition) i can see the flash in the photos. WEIRD

but before this, even if some of my test shots did not have the flash unit in frame, i still could not see the flash firing in the photos.

also, when i focus directly on the metz while it is facing directly at the lens, the flash fires but it never shows in the exposure. never at all.


edit:

i played around with it again and it seems that, when the flash unit is just outside of frame, i won't see the flash in the photo. but if i put it further away out of frame (if that makes sense) i can see the flash.

edit again:

just played with it YET again, and it seems that even if the flash unit is in frame, as long as i physically stay far away enough, i can see the flash.

hope that helps.

Last edited by L(2); 11-14-2009 at 10:28 AM.
11-14-2009, 10:43 AM   #4
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ok yet another thing to add:
it seems that as long as the built in flash does not 'flash' directly onto the front part of the Metz flash head


not visible


visible


visible


visible


not visible


this is still visible


but focus up a bit and it's not visible

note that in all instances, the flash actually did fire, but depending on where i focus or where i point, it will or will not show in the exposure.


Last edited by L(2); 11-14-2009 at 10:12 PM.
11-14-2009, 12:40 PM   #5
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Let's forget about #1 and focus on #2 for now:

QuoteOriginally posted by L(2) Quote
2. It seems like both flashes fire twice. The first flashes might be the pre-flash. After 2 seconds, both flashes fire again. And yes, i can see the Metz firing.
It seems like the Metz 48 is in "dumb" optical slave mode. By "dumb" I mean the Metz is triggered by any strobe, not just by the control strobe from the K200D built-in flash.

The symptom then can be explained: in p-TTL, the built-in flash fires two strobes: (1) a pre-flash strobe before the mirror goes up, for metering purpose, and then (2) a main strobe (or control strobe in wireless setup) after the mirror goes up and when the shutter is open. If the built-in flash acts alone (no wireless), the main strobe is to provide light to the scene. In wireless mode, the main strobe tells the remote flash to fire, and how much light to put out.

In wireless flash as you intended, the Metz should not be triggered with the pre-flash strobe. It fires only one strobe, triggered by the control strobe from the built-in flash.

In your case, the Metz is in "dumb" slave mode. Thus it is triggered by both the pre-flash strobe and the control strobe.

In fact, the Metz may not fire at the control strobe. That depends on whether the Metz has sufficient charge 2 second after firing the first time. This is why in the photos, sometimes you see the Metz firing, sometimes you don't.

I don't have the Metz 48 nor the K200D so I don't know whether that combo supports wireless flash, and if so, how to set it up. Someone with that combo please chime in.
11-14-2009, 06:17 PM   #6
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what about the photos above? do they say anything?
11-14-2009, 07:08 PM   #7
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Here is the sequence of the flash process for wireless P-TTL:
1. Camera flash fires, telling the other flash to wake up and fire a test flash
2. Remote flash fires at less than full power to meter
3. Camera flash fires, telling the remote flash when to start flashing and when to stop

You need the Metz to be in P-TTL mode. There are two slave modes on a Pentax flash, SL 1 and SL 2. SL 2 is a dumb flash - when it sees a flash from anything it fires at full power. SL 1 is the P-TTL setting that results in the sequence above. If your on board flash is expecting
11-14-2009, 08:51 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Canada_Rockies Quote
... You need the Metz to be in P-TTL mode ...
i think the Metz can only act as a P-TTL wireless slave anyway.

11-15-2009, 01:03 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by SOldBear Quote
It seems like the Metz 48 is in "dumb" optical slave mode. By "dumb" I mean the Metz is triggered by any strobe, not just by the control strobe from the K200D built-in flash.
This is incorrect. The Metz has 4 channels that can be synced with the camera.

To the OP - in my camera you have the choice of whether or not the on-board flash contributes to the exposure. Sounds like you have it on. Some custom setting can turn it off, so it will just fire to tell the Metz to fire.
11-15-2009, 01:31 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Arpe Quote
This is incorrect. The Metz has 4 channels that can be synced with the camera.

To the OP - in my camera you have the choice of whether or not the on-board flash contributes to the exposure. Sounds like you have it on. Some custom setting can turn it off, so it will just fire to tell the Metz to fire.
setting the on-board flash as a controller instead of a master doesn't make a difference. if i focus 'directly' on the flash, the light still wont show in the exposure for some weird reason or another (see photos in my previous posts).
11-15-2009, 10:41 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by L(2) Quote
i think the Metz can only act as a P-TTL wireless slave anyway.
I somehow am under the impression that the Metz can be set to straight dumb slave mode. See a flash, make a flash.

If the Metz is set to dumb slave, it will do exactly what seems to be the problem: it will fire on the pre-flash. Then, depending on the distance to the subject, it might have enough charge left to make a weak flash when it is supposed to, on the second camera control. flash. This would also result in the scenario where the camera detects a flash from the Metz.
11-15-2009, 06:16 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Canada_Rockies Quote
I somehow am under the impression that the Metz can be set to straight dumb slave mode. See a flash, make a flash.

If the Metz is set to dumb slave, it will do exactly what seems to be the problem: it will fire on the pre-flash. Then, depending on the distance to the subject, it might have enough charge left to make a weak flash when it is supposed to, on the second camera control. flash. This would also result in the scenario where the camera detects a flash from the Metz.
i don't think so.
Which Flashgun ?? Pentax AF360FGZ or Sigma EF-530 DG Super
no 'dumb' slave mode: Olympus SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
11-15-2009, 07:07 PM   #13
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Try Matt's page. I got to it via studio and field accessories in these forums. There is a sticky about Pentax P-TTL and flashes.
Pentax P-TTL Flash Comparison: Feature Comparison
It specifically states that the Metz 48-1 does manual flash - which is triggered solely by another flash (not necessarily the one on YOUR camera). It is also supposed to be fully compatible with P-TTL, but might perhaps require another AF 48-1 to control it, mounted on the camera's hot shoe.

Personally, I avoid all these by using Pentax branded gear, even when it is considerably more expensive. It also avoids the "it's their fault, not ours" arguments when it comes to warranty claims.
11-15-2009, 07:36 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Canada_Rockies Quote
It specifically states that the Metz 48-1 does manual flash - which is triggered solely by another flash (not necessarily the one on YOUR camera). It is also supposed to be fully compatible with P-TTL, but might perhaps require another AF 48-1 to control it, mounted on the camera's hot shoe.
I have a k7 and metz48. Wireless P-TTL can be used using the pop up flash as a master or controller. If it is able to do Manual mode in wireless then i have not found a way to make it work on mine. I was under the impression that it did wireless P-TTL only.

mike
11-15-2009, 08:00 PM   #15
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does anyone know what's the cause of the problem i'm having? it's weird how when i'm 'focusing' directly on the flash, it won't show in the photo (even though in reality the flash did fire)
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