Pentax lack of scene mode

aleonx3 · 11-20-2009, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by Alfisti

This is a very simple equation, if you need scene modes the K-7 is too much camera for you

I agreed with that. I used to think that it was a great idea, looking at 40D and 50D and also D90. I still have my k100D along with k10D, never touched the scene mode after several months owning the K100D. Those scene modes are gimmicks to lure beginners; you can easily get with Av mode and set it with more DOF (smaller aperture).

If you not comfortable without scene mode, as many suggested, you should seriously consider the k-x. But once you learn a few things, you will find the advance features and convenience of the extra buttons and control very handy in K-7 and k-20D.

splurf · 11-20-2009, 08:09 AM

Took the time to read through the features of the K7 and you are right that with a little knowledge there is a lot on offer. Program line and Custom Image modes allow you to create the effect you want. And I believe you can save the settings you like in USER mode. We take a ton of great photos at the moment with a simple point and shoot without any scene modes so I have not missed this feature in the past. For myself I used to really enjoy photography and would like to enjoy it again. For my wife she just wants to pick up the camera and take a picture. Thanks for the advice and I think the K7 remains the best long term choice in a camera.

reeftool · 11-20-2009, 09:03 AM

I never used scene modes on my cameras that had them. None of the higher end DSLR's have scene modes. The salesman is trying to steer you to a camera that pays him a bigger commision or bonus.

Dom · 11-20-2009, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by splurf

Went into my two local dealers interested in the K7 because of its weather sealing, sturdy construction and small size. I mainly take family photos of the kids at home, at play, and on holiday. Both dealers tried to steer me to Canon or Nikon product because of the scene modes - portrait, sport, landscape. While I have not had a DSLR in a while, I would rate my photographic skills as average. Is NOT having the scene modes with the Pentax K7 a big drawback?

Nor having scene modes was a big selling point for me when it came to Pentax. IMHO scene modes belong on P&S cameras and that's where they should stay.

Eruditass · 11-20-2009, 10:32 AM

I'd much rather have program-line modes on my K-x than scene modes.

knoxploration · 11-20-2009, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by splurf

Yes, maybe I should consider the Kx. K20 does not do scene modes. It would probably do everything I need and save me quite a bit of money. Will have to go take a look before I can comment further. There was a question about which to choose in these forums with money not an object and knoxploration posted this:

For me, K-7. No question. I want the weather sealing, I want to be able to shoot below freezing, I want the solid magnesium body, I want the more advanced controls / ergonomics, I want the better viewfinder, I want the viewfinder AF point display,I want the better LCD, I want the higher framerate, I want the better AF, I want the AF assist lamp, I want the better metering, I want the higher max shutter, I want the in-camera leveling, I want the rotational anti-shake, I want the more advanced dust reduction, I want the better connectivity (HDMI, mic jack, cable remote, PC sync are all missing), I want the higher-res movies, I want the longer-life, lighter battery, and I want the extra custom functions.

Comparing these two cameras - unless you've got far too much Pentax glass to change systems - is frankly ludicrous. Even then, you're probably better off going to a K20D than a K-x, if you want a semi-pro camera and the K-7 doesn't meet your needs. Conversely if you want a consumer camera, why even consider the K-7?

Playing devil's advocate, the K-x does have its own advantages... Mostly, these are lower noise / better high ISO performance, especially in JPEG shooting and at higher ISOs. Also a smaller / lighter body, albeit less rugged and without weather sealing. Also a much simpler user interface, but with a lot less customisation capability.

You'll likely take longer to learn to use a K-7 really effectively, where the K-x will be quicker to learn but (other than the noise / ISO thing) will likely feel limiting sooner, especially in its lack of AF point indication.

Which to choose strongly depends on what photographer you intend to become. You'll get plenty of great pictures with both - or at least, the potential for it is there, obviously the results also depend on the photographer's skills. ;-)

windflower · 11-20-2009, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by pschlute

I am pleased it does not have a scene mode. Scene modes are useful for beginners coming to SLR photography for the first time, but if you are serious about your photography you will want to move away from the scene/program modes quite quickly.

The whole point about having a complex tool like an SLR is to be able to use the "triangle" of ISO/aperture/shutter speed to produce the picture you want, not what the camera "thinks" you want.

I am not belittling the scene mode/program modes. But here we are talking about the top of the range Pentax DSLR, the K7. It is not aimed at users who will want to use scene modes.

You hit the nail right on the head, IMO.

Ratmagiclady · 11-20-2009, 11:47 AM

Frankly, I think there's nothing wrong with scene modes. Not to the point I'd feel affronted if they were on my camera. But. If you know what you're doing, and your camera, (like a K-7) has just the dials you can turn, you don't need em taking up space in your interface.

Meanwhile, it's just a bit of programming. Elementary stuff to anyone who knows photography. Personally, I don't think it matters much. But, if we're gonna have a spot on the dial being 'Green mode,' it wouldn't hurt to have the scene modes buried in a menu under there. Then you could hand the camera off to the kind of people you'd stick it in Green mode for, with the camera knowing more about what you'd like them to do, or just have another useful slot on the dial instead of one you don't use at all.

(My little Lumix would have both idiot mode and a menu-driven scene mode. The latter, I would leave set for 'snow' when I was back up north. This would usually mean I could expect the camera to do competent things when I couldn't really see the display.

(never set much store by automation, myself, but he's a clever little fellow. Still looking for a way to glue an eyecup on there, though.

)

My sweetie now uses that camera a lot and I can just phone in what will probably work well, even from a long way away. So I'm not down on these modes. I think they may as well put them there. (Or at least go ahead and make it a 'USER' mode position that defaults to 'idiot mode' and can be configured as you like) Just that they aren't a big deal. Not for a camera like the K-7.

Parallax · 11-20-2009, 03:43 PM

If you want to use the camera as a high quality point-and-shoot, scene mode will give you that ability. If you intend to actually learn the basics (and beyond) photography you don't need and won't miss scene mode.

WMBP · 11-20-2009, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by Dom

Nor having scene modes was a big selling point for me when it came to Pentax.

Ditto.

I've said it here many times before and will now say it again: A simpler mode dial makes the camera EASIER to use, not harder.

I'm quite sure that the scene modes were thought up by a marketing person, not a photographer.

Quote:

IMHO scene modes belong on P&S cameras and that's where they should stay.

I agree, except that I don't think they make point and shoot cameras any better either. There's no reason that P&S cameras could not provide simple P, Av and Tv mode, along with full auto. Most people would shoot P or full auto, which is fine.

Will

SOldBear · 11-20-2009, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by WMBP

I agree, except that I don't think they make point and shoot cameras any better either. There's no reason that P&S cameras could not provide simple P, Av and Tv mode, along with full auto. Most people would shoot P or full auto, which is fine.

That's why I like the UI of the Ricoh GX200. The mode dial is very simple. There are bunch of "Scenes" (snow, portrait, night, ....) but they are in the menu. My SWMBO has a Lumix DMC-TS1. It is great for taking photos while kayaking but I always get confused with all the mode symbols

WMBP · 11-20-2009, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by SOldBear

That's why I like the UI of the Ricoh GX200. The mode dial is very simple. There are bunch of "Scenes" (snow, portrait, night, ....) but they are in the menu.

I think I've noticed this camera before. It looks pretty good. Do you like it?

I congratulate Ricoh for moving the scene modes off the mode dial. Personally I think they should move 'em all the way into the user's guide, you know,

- SPORTS MODE: Use aperture priority and try to keep the shutter speed above 1/250th sec

Quote:

My SWMBO has a Lumix DMC-TS1. It is great for taking photos while kayaking but I always get confused with all the mode symbols

I give up. "SWMBO"??? Single white male with body odor? Soft white blanket behind the oven?

Will

SOldBear · 11-20-2009, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by WMBP

I think I've noticed this camera before. It looks pretty good. Do you like it?

I think the Ricoh has the best user interface among P&S and hybrid digital cameras. In terms of noise, it is great at 64 and 100 ISO. 200 ISO is acceptable, but above that is good only for B&W. IQ-wise, I think the Canon G9/10/11 are better. I wish Ricoh had put an 8MP or 10MP in the camera (it has 14MP).

But I like the Ricoh for its UI, compactness, and the ability to take external flash.

I modified the Ricoh adapter to add a Nikon 0.68X wide-angle adapter. It turns the GX200 lens into a 16-50mm (35mm equiv.). But the camera loses its compactness.

Originally posted by WMBP

I give up. "SWMBO"??? Single white male with body odor? Soft white blanket behind the oven?

She Who Must Be Obeyed

WMBP · 11-20-2009, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by SOldBear

She Who Must Be Obeyed

Heh. I'm a fan of Rumpole. I should have figured that one out. :-)

Will

Dom · 11-21-2009, 05:41 AM

Originally posted by WMBP

I agree, except that I don't think they make point and shoot cameras any better either. There's no reason that P&S cameras could not provide simple P, Av and Tv mode, along with full auto. Most people would shoot P or full auto, which is fine.

Will

My little compact camera has more bloody modes on it's dial than you can shack a stick at.

I only use three modes Av, video some times and CHDK CHDK Wiki.

Having said I use Av mode. It's not even a real aperture, it's just a bloody ND filter that moves in and out of the lens.

To be honest I can't remember the last time I used it, it's that crap!

I'm off to look for a half decent compact.

11-20-2009, 11:47 AM	#38
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Frankly, I think there's nothing wrong with scene modes. Not to the point I'd feel affronted if they were on my camera. But. If you know what you're doing, and your camera, (like a K-7) has just the dials you can turn, you don't need em taking up space in your interface. Meanwhile, it's just a bit of programming. Elementary stuff to anyone who knows photography. Personally, I don't think it matters much. But, if we're gonna have a spot on the dial being 'Green mode,' it wouldn't hurt to have the scene modes buried in a menu under there. Then you could hand the camera off to the kind of people you'd stick it in Green mode for, with the camera knowing more about what you'd like them to do, or just have another useful slot on the dial instead of one you don't use at all. (My little Lumix would have both idiot mode and a menu-driven scene mode. The latter, I would leave set for 'snow' when I was back up north. This would usually mean I could expect the camera to do competent things when I couldn't really see the display. (never set much store by automation, myself, but he's a clever little fellow. Still looking for a way to glue an eyecup on there, though. ) My sweetie now uses that camera a lot and I can just phone in what will probably work well, even from a long way away. So I'm not down on these modes. I think they may as well put them there. (Or at least go ahead and make it a 'USER' mode position that defaults to 'idiot mode' and can be configured as you like) Just that they aren't a big deal. Not for a camera like the K-7. Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 11-20-2009 at 11:57 AM.

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11-20-2009, 07:24 AM	#31
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Originally posted by Alfisti This is a very simple equation, if you need scene modes the K-7 is too much camera for you I agreed with that. I used to think that it was a great idea, looking at 40D and 50D and also D90. I still have my k100D along with k10D, never touched the scene mode after several months owning the K100D. Those scene modes are gimmicks to lure beginners; you can easily get with Av mode and set it with more DOF (smaller aperture). If you not comfortable without scene mode, as many suggested, you should seriously consider the k-x. But once you learn a few things, you will find the advance features and convenience of the extra buttons and control very handy in K-7 and k-20D.

11-20-2009, 08:09 AM	#32
splurf Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Coffs Harbour NSW Posts: 10 Original Poster	Took the time to read through the features of the K7 and you are right that with a little knowledge there is a lot on offer. Program line and Custom Image modes allow you to create the effect you want. And I believe you can save the settings you like in USER mode. We take a ton of great photos at the moment with a simple point and shoot without any scene modes so I have not missed this feature in the past. For myself I used to really enjoy photography and would like to enjoy it again. For my wife she just wants to pick up the camera and take a picture. Thanks for the advice and I think the K7 remains the best long term choice in a camera.

11-20-2009, 09:03 AM	#33
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,555	I never used scene modes on my cameras that had them. None of the higher end DSLR's have scene modes. The salesman is trying to steer you to a camera that pays him a bigger commision or bonus.

11-20-2009, 09:39 AM	#34
Dom Guest	Originally posted by splurf Went into my two local dealers interested in the K7 because of its weather sealing, sturdy construction and small size. I mainly take family photos of the kids at home, at play, and on holiday. Both dealers tried to steer me to Canon or Nikon product because of the scene modes - portrait, sport, landscape. While I have not had a DSLR in a while, I would rate my photographic skills as average. Is NOT having the scene modes with the Pentax K7 a big drawback? Nor having scene modes was a big selling point for me when it came to Pentax. IMHO scene modes belong on P&S cameras and that's where they should stay.

11-20-2009, 10:32 AM	#35
Eruditass Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,207	I'd much rather have program-line modes on my K-x than scene modes.

11-20-2009, 11:08 AM	#36
knoxploration Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 846	Originally posted by splurf Yes, maybe I should consider the Kx. K20 does not do scene modes. It would probably do everything I need and save me quite a bit of money. Will have to go take a look before I can comment further. There was a question about which to choose in these forums with money not an object and knoxploration posted this: For me, K-7. No question. I want the weather sealing, I want to be able to shoot below freezing, I want the solid magnesium body, I want the more advanced controls / ergonomics, I want the better viewfinder, I want the viewfinder AF point display,I want the better LCD, I want the higher framerate, I want the better AF, I want the AF assist lamp, I want the better metering, I want the higher max shutter, I want the in-camera leveling, I want the rotational anti-shake, I want the more advanced dust reduction, I want the better connectivity (HDMI, mic jack, cable remote, PC sync are all missing), I want the higher-res movies, I want the longer-life, lighter battery, and I want the extra custom functions. Comparing these two cameras - unless you've got far too much Pentax glass to change systems - is frankly ludicrous. Even then, you're probably better off going to a K20D than a K-x, if you want a semi-pro camera and the K-7 doesn't meet your needs. Conversely if you want a consumer camera, why even consider the K-7? Playing devil's advocate, the K-x does have its own advantages... Mostly, these are lower noise / better high ISO performance, especially in JPEG shooting and at higher ISOs. Also a smaller / lighter body, albeit less rugged and without weather sealing. Also a much simpler user interface, but with a lot less customisation capability. You'll likely take longer to learn to use a K-7 really effectively, where the K-x will be quicker to learn but (other than the noise / ISO thing) will likely feel limiting sooner, especially in its lack of AF point indication. Which to choose strongly depends on what photographer you intend to become. You'll get plenty of great pictures with both - or at least, the potential for it is there, obviously the results also depend on the photographer's skills. ;-)

11-20-2009, 11:33 AM	#37
windflower Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 24	Originally posted by pschlute I am pleased it does not have a scene mode. Scene modes are useful for beginners coming to SLR photography for the first time, but if you are serious about your photography you will want to move away from the scene/program modes quite quickly. The whole point about having a complex tool like an SLR is to be able to use the "triangle" of ISO/aperture/shutter speed to produce the picture you want, not what the camera "thinks" you want. I am not belittling the scene mode/program modes. But here we are talking about the top of the range Pentax DSLR, the K7. It is not aimed at users who will want to use scene modes. You hit the nail right on the head, IMO.

11-20-2009, 03:43 PM	#39
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,333	If you want to use the camera as a high quality point-and-shoot, scene mode will give you that ability. If you intend to actually learn the basics (and beyond) photography you don't need and won't miss scene mode.

11-20-2009, 04:39 PM	#40
WMBP Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,482	Originally posted by Dom Nor having scene modes was a big selling point for me when it came to Pentax. Ditto. I've said it here many times before and will now say it again: A simpler mode dial makes the camera EASIER to use, not harder. I'm quite sure that the scene modes were thought up by a marketing person, not a photographer. Quote: IMHO scene modes belong on P&S cameras and that's where they should stay. I agree, except that I don't think they make point and shoot cameras any better either. There's no reason that P&S cameras could not provide simple P, Av and Tv mode, along with full auto. Most people would shoot P or full auto, which is fine. Will

11-20-2009, 05:01 PM	#41
SOldBear Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Alameda, CA Posts: 3,206	Originally posted by WMBP I agree, except that I don't think they make point and shoot cameras any better either. There's no reason that P&S cameras could not provide simple P, Av and Tv mode, along with full auto. Most people would shoot P or full auto, which is fine. That's why I like the UI of the Ricoh GX200. The mode dial is very simple. There are bunch of "Scenes" (snow, portrait, night, ....) but they are in the menu. My SWMBO has a Lumix DMC-TS1. It is great for taking photos while kayaking but I always get confused with all the mode symbols

11-20-2009, 05:19 PM	#42
WMBP Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,482	Originally posted by SOldBear That's why I like the UI of the Ricoh GX200. The mode dial is very simple. There are bunch of "Scenes" (snow, portrait, night, ....) but they are in the menu. I think I've noticed this camera before. It looks pretty good. Do you like it? I congratulate Ricoh for moving the scene modes off the mode dial. Personally I think they should move 'em all the way into the user's guide, you know, - SPORTS MODE: Use aperture priority and try to keep the shutter speed above 1/250th sec Quote: My SWMBO has a Lumix DMC-TS1. It is great for taking photos while kayaking but I always get confused with all the mode symbols I give up. "SWMBO"??? Single white male with body odor? Soft white blanket behind the oven? Will

11-20-2009, 05:31 PM	#43
SOldBear Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Alameda, CA Posts: 3,206	Originally posted by WMBP I think I've noticed this camera before. It looks pretty good. Do you like it? I think the Ricoh has the best user interface among P&S and hybrid digital cameras. In terms of noise, it is great at 64 and 100 ISO. 200 ISO is acceptable, but above that is good only for B&W. IQ-wise, I think the Canon G9/10/11 are better. I wish Ricoh had put an 8MP or 10MP in the camera (it has 14MP). But I like the Ricoh for its UI, compactness, and the ability to take external flash. I modified the Ricoh adapter to add a Nikon 0.68X wide-angle adapter. It turns the GX200 lens into a 16-50mm (35mm equiv.). But the camera loses its compactness. Originally posted by WMBP I give up. "SWMBO"??? Single white male with body odor? Soft white blanket behind the oven? She Who Must Be Obeyed

11-20-2009, 09:01 PM	#44
WMBP Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,482	Originally posted by SOldBear She Who Must Be Obeyed Heh. I'm a fan of Rumpole. I should have figured that one out. :-) Will

11-21-2009, 05:41 AM	#45
Dom Guest	Originally posted by WMBP I agree, except that I don't think they make point and shoot cameras any better either. There's no reason that P&S cameras could not provide simple P, Av and Tv mode, along with full auto. Most people would shoot P or full auto, which is fine. Will My little compact camera has more bloody modes on it's dial than you can shack a stick at. I only use three modes Av, video some times and CHDK CHDK Wiki. Having said I use Av mode. It's not even a real aperture, it's just a bloody ND filter that moves in and out of the lens. To be honest I can't remember the last time I used it, it's that crap! I'm off to look for a half decent compact.