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12-11-2009, 03:57 PM   #1
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Just got an AF-360 external flash...a question?

This is probably a super-newb question about my flash, but i'll ask anyway.

When the external flash is attached, i know you can change the different types of output by using the slider.

What i want to know is, what flash setting is the actual camera supposed to use? Does one override the other?

Sorry if this doesn't make sense.

12-11-2009, 09:30 PM   #2
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Ok,

So i realize my first post was a bit confusing.

I think i may have figured it out, but i'll re-state it just in case I don't have it completely right.

Basically, when i attached my new AF-360, i wasn't sure what flash settings to use on the camera itself. I realize that i can adjust the sync mode on the Flash itself using the slider.

Am i correct in figuring that it doesn't matter what i set the actual camera's flash settings to, since I'm not actually using the built-in flash on the camera, but the external?
12-13-2009, 05:16 PM   #3
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No one has a thought?
12-13-2009, 09:37 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by maconmatt Quote
No one has a thought?
It is a really complicated question. What works or doesn't work is partly controlled by what mode you are shooting in.



This was put together by isteve at dpreview.

Name:  Flashmodes.jpg
Views: 776
Size:  143.1 KB

Thank you
Russell


Last edited by Russell-Evans; 12-13-2009 at 10:29 PM.
12-14-2009, 06:11 AM   #5
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Awesome! Thanks! Yeah, I knew this has had to have come up before. I just couldn't wrap my head around it on my own.

That chart helps a lot!

Thanks again,
Matt
12-14-2009, 08:32 AM   #6
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Whew, after looking over this, i'm still incredibly confused. Can you give me an "simplified talk" as to what this all means?
12-16-2009, 08:39 AM   #7
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Basically, with flash, the FLASH exposure is solely determined by flash power (actually duration, how long the bulb is actually firing for), aperture and ISO. Ambient exposure is determined by ISO, shutter speed, and aperture (just like without any flash), so the trick is balancing the two. If I'm indoors in a smallish room (such as in someone's house), I usually just forget about ambient since the flash is powerful enough to light up the entire room (hence the 1/180s below, if the flash didn't fire, I'd have a more or less black picture) Now although you're shooting MANUAL Mode, that's only for the ambient exposure (the exposure needle in the viewfinder will blink warning you about underexposure, but ignore that). The camera's P-TTL metering will determine the needed flash output for a proper exposure.

Here's something I wrote on another forum -
"Easy" recipe for great P-TTL flash shots -
1)Point flash at ceiling
2)Put camera in MANUAL mode on the mode dial
3)Set FEC to +1 on the flash head

4)Shoot RAW (this allows you to recover some highlights that might get blown as a result of #3 above)

5)Set ISO to 200 (to start)
6)Set shutter speed to 1/180s
7)Set f-stop to whatever DOF you want


Now if the flash runs out of "power" because of high ceilings, you can raise the ISO or open up the f-stop to compensate. Or you can slow down the shutter to bring more ambient light into the exposure (in addition to adjusting ISO/f-stop) If the ceiling is REALLY high (like in a church), you may need a reflector to throw some of the light forward (I use the Joe Demb Flip-it).

Quick and dirty outdoor fill flash tutorial -
Basically, if your subject is in shade and the background is bright (ie under a tree) or majorly backlit, fill flash is your friend. Think of those times when you got a properly exposed background, but the subject was almost pitch black.

Put camera into Av mode, metering will set the shutter speed to expose the overall shot (which in the situations that call for fill-flash will generally be the background) based on your selected aperture/ISO.
Make sure flash is set to HSS (in case your shutter speed go faster than 1/180s) and P-TTL. Fire away! The shutter speed/f-stop/ISO will expose the background, and the flash should output enough power to light up the foreground.

Now to control the background exposure, you use exposure compensation on the camera body (which would adjust the shutter speed), to adjust how much fill for the flash exposure, you use Flash exposure compensation. The trick is balancing the two (as it is with indoor work), and that comes with experience/experimentation.
12-16-2009, 09:46 AM   #8
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Just a quick note, the poster has a 360, but the reference is for 560..

I suppose both flash are same just the 560 can swivel? I am a newbie too.

12-16-2009, 11:33 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by LFLee Quote
Just a quick note, the poster has a 360, but the reference is for 560..
The chart describes the behavior of both flash models on the camera.

Thank you
Russell
12-16-2009, 12:07 PM   #10
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Thanks!

I think I understand the basics of flash exposure vs. ambient exposure.

I guess my real question is more about the possible conflict of settings between the external flash and the camera:

Since the AF-360 already has settings for "Leading Curtain", "Trailing Curtain", "Contrast Control" and "High-Speed" sync modes on it's body, do i ever need to adjust the K10d's sync mode in-camera?

What happens if i have conflicting sync modes on the flash's body and in-camera?

Thanks again!
Matt
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12-16-2009, 12:45 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by maconmatt Quote
I guess my real question is more about the possible conflict of settings between the external flash and the camera:

Since the AF-360 already has settings for "Leading Curtain", "Trailing Curtain", "Contrast Control" and "High-Speed" sync modes on it's body, do i ever need to adjust the K10d's sync mode in-camera?
The flash is mostly the arbitrator of mode. If you look at the sync column of the chart, you'll notice it follows the sync setting of the flash, except for HSS on the flash. What happens with HSS on the flash is subject to the camera's settings .

The last column in the chart describes whether the exposure is calculated with the light the flash provides, or without. This would be the choice of shooting with ambient in mind or not. What the chart can't take into account is that in manual, it is only the metering that is affected. If you aren't setting the shutter, aperture and iso according to the meter, then all bets are off.

Thank you
Russell

Last edited by Russell-Evans; 12-16-2009 at 01:01 PM.
12-16-2009, 01:06 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by maconmatt Quote
Thanks!

I think I understand the basics of flash exposure vs. ambient exposure.

I guess my real question is more about the possible conflict of settings between the external flash and the camera:

Since the AF-360 already has settings for "Leading Curtain", "Trailing Curtain", "Contrast Control" and "High-Speed" sync modes on it's body, do i ever need to adjust the K10d's sync mode in-camera?

What happens if i have conflicting sync modes on the flash's body and in-camera?

Thanks again!
Matt
The on-camera sync settings are ignored by an external flash, but redeye settings are not - the flash controls will take precedence regarding sync mode but will still obey red-eye settings on camera as far as I can tell.
12-16-2009, 02:16 PM   #13
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Thanks guys! I'll take some time and digest the explanations, but i think you've hit on exactly what I was confused about.

Another question: Where does the "Flash On" in-camera mode fall into in the above chart?

Last edited by maconmatt; 12-16-2009 at 02:22 PM.
12-16-2009, 02:35 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by maconmatt Quote
Thanks guys! I'll take some time and digest the explanations, but i think you've hit on exactly what I was confused about.

Another question: Where does the "Flash On" in-camera mode fall into in the above chart?
Flash on same as Auto.
12-16-2009, 03:12 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
The on-camera sync settings are ignored by an external flash, but redeye settings are not - the flash controls will take precedence regarding sync mode but will still obey red-eye settings on camera as far as I can tell.
So am I reading the chart wrong where HSS is concerned? TAv mode, Camera - trailing sync, Flash - HSS, Sync - L, seems to say you get Leading Curtain instead of HSS to me.

Thank you
Russell
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