IMPORTANT - FOR ALL NOOBS !!!

joodiespost · 12-26-2009, 01:47 AM

I have just found out that the SR icon has to be lit in the viewfinder before it is activated. I never knew this
and usually took pictures immediately after the "Beep." There is a delay between the "Beep" and the SR icon coming on.
For the SR to be activated as seen in the picture below you need to wait about a second after the "Beep"
This to me, as a noob, was a very important information that i've been missing out on.

By the way, this question goes out to non noobs. Why does the SR function need to be turned off when the camera is being
used with a Tripod? Is that necessary? The picture makes an emphasis on this by putting "Caution" next to it as if it's crucial.

Thanks to Lightbug for mentioning this ^^

And Please Go read the Pentax Photography Articles section. There are many helpful information for your FAQs

.

Last edited by joodiespost; 12-27-2009 at 10:51 PM.

LeDave · 12-26-2009, 02:14 AM

Originally posted by joodiespost

Why does the SR function need to be turned off when the camera is being used with a Tripod? Is that necessary? The picture makes an emphasis on this by putting "Caution" next to it as if it's crucial.

I've always wandered about this too. I know that with SR enabled while on a tripod, it increases the shake somehow; however I don't quite understand how this mechanism actually really works and why you need to disable it when tripoded.

Damn Brit · 12-26-2009, 02:37 AM

I believe it is because SR works by stabilising on both the horizontal and vertical. When on a tripod SR works against itself and induces movement. I'm sure someone else will have a more technical answer but I would compare it to sitting in your car with one foot on the brake and the other pressing the accelerator.

joodiespost · 12-26-2009, 02:56 AM

yeah guys i'd really like to know this. So Gary what you're saying is for SR to work, it needs some sort of "shake" to feed it's appetite. Guess we'll have to wait till tomorrow to find out, go to bed guys ^^

Last edited by J.Scott; 12-26-2009 at 03:07 AM. Reason: comment removed

ytterbium · 12-26-2009, 03:34 AM

I think it may be more related to long exposures than to tripod.

Since it uses accelerometers to sense motion, it is not sensing the motion itself, but rather a change in motion or its speed. There might be some part of algorithm to get movement information from this, like - if a motion changes to opposite direction, system starts to compensate for it, and does a steady movement in that direction until another motion change occurs.

If such steady moving compensation is in progress - initiated by shutter release vibration for example, but the camera is still on tripod - a smear will occur, because there is no actual motion.
The system might get in some sort of self oscillation as well - by ever increasing SR action causing more vibration, and being compensated for even further, without any accelerometer inputs to distract this cycle.

For short exposure times this works very well, since either the shake is so frequent that it changes it's direction constantly, or exposure is shorter than the time camera motion might settle.

Damn Brit · 12-26-2009, 03:37 AM

Originally posted by ytterbium

I think it may be more related to long exposures than to tripod.

Probably the combination of the two.

amoringello · 12-26-2009, 04:23 AM

You can get something like the following if you leave the SR on with a tripod... (I do not see this all the time, in fact this is the first time I've seen such behavior.)

With SR

Without SR

**interested_observer** · 12-26-2009, 09:07 AM

When I was out looking for a better tripod that the cheap one I was able to pick up for 11 cents on evilbay, I ran across this article on the web...

VELBON MAXi 343E Tripod - photo.net

So here is some proof that SR or IS does help when using a tripod - at least some of the time. However, I would not say that this is generally the case. I would have to think that this is a special case, with a somewhat light weight tripod, or a tripod with sort of induced motion (wind, traffic, a cheap tripod, you name it). I came across this item about light weight tripods and mirror bounce...

Tool Developed to Measure Camera Shake -- Tech-On!

If there is any motion in the tripod, then you are back in the same situation (to some degree) as hand held - maybe not as bad. So, I think that there are situations where flipping on SR while using a tripod may be beneficial. Now that being said, you have to remember that when using the 2 second mirror up, automatically disengages SR, so if your in that situation, you have now live with some mirror bounce - which could be worse than the motion you are trying to dampen out. So, I went looking for some mirror bounce information ...

DSLR Mirror lock up how usefull is it for handheld photography?.

So, possibly the moral of the story is to get a very good tripod - if you are going to use a tripod at all.

joodiespost · 12-26-2009, 11:14 AM

I sure there's a reason the manual is putting an emphasis on turning off SR with Tripod. And it doesn't take much effort to turn it off so I guess i'll be doing that ^^

Winnie · 12-27-2009, 06:37 AM

Good info, thanks for making the thread.

Oggy · 12-27-2009, 03:52 PM

I have heard many theories on why the SR should be off on a tripod, most of which do not sound very plausible.

The one that sounds most plausible to me as an engineer is that the resonant frequency of the camera in your hands is going to be very different to that of the camera on a tripod. The SR is obviously set up to to cope with the camera being hand held, but cannot handle the higher resonant of the tripod.

erickallemeyn · 12-27-2009, 04:39 PM

Also, an easy way to lockup the mirror and disable SR is to use the 2-second timer feature.

this locks up the mirror, disables SR, then takes the photo 2 seconds later.

joodiespost · 12-27-2009, 09:26 PM

yeah when I do use the tripod, I realize that even the pressing of the shutter button can cause some movement. It is best to use the 2 second timer on the tripod. Good point ^^

reeftool · 12-28-2009, 10:45 AM

The SR system can cause a blurred shot when using the tripod. It doesn't happen very often so you will find a lot of people will dispute that advice in the manual and leave the SR on all the time. Until, of course, it happens to one of their shots.

mickeyobe · 12-28-2009, 11:15 AM

"DSLR Mirror lock up how usefull is it for handheld photography?."

It will rerduce shutter lag time somewhat but since DSLR's have very short shutter lag times I can think of no advantage at all.

The disadvantage is that you wont see what you are photographing.

Mickey

12-26-2009, 01:47 AM	#1
joodiespost Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 336	IMPORTANT - FOR ALL NOOBS !!! I have just found out that the SR icon has to be lit in the viewfinder before it is activated. I never knew this and usually took pictures immediately after the "Beep." There is a delay between the "Beep" and the SR icon coming on. For the SR to be activated as seen in the picture below you need to wait about a second after the "Beep" This to me, as a noob, was a very important information that i've been missing out on. By the way, this question goes out to non noobs. Why does the SR function need to be turned off when the camera is being used with a Tripod? Is that necessary? The picture makes an emphasis on this by putting "Caution" next to it as if it's crucial. Thanks to Lightbug for mentioning this ^^ And Please Go read the Pentax Photography Articles section. There are many helpful information for your FAQs . Last edited by joodiespost; 12-27-2009 at 10:51 PM.

12-26-2009, 09:07 AM	#8
interested_observer Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,707	SR and Tripods.... When I was out looking for a better tripod that the cheap one I was able to pick up for 11 cents on evilbay, I ran across this article on the web... VELBON MAXi 343E Tripod - photo.net So here is some proof that SR or IS does help when using a tripod - at least some of the time. However, I would not say that this is generally the case. I would have to think that this is a special case, with a somewhat light weight tripod, or a tripod with sort of induced motion (wind, traffic, a cheap tripod, you name it). I came across this item about light weight tripods and mirror bounce... Tool Developed to Measure Camera Shake -- Tech-On! If there is any motion in the tripod, then you are back in the same situation (to some degree) as hand held - maybe not as bad. So, I think that there are situations where flipping on SR while using a tripod may be beneficial. Now that being said, you have to remember that when using the 2 second mirror up, automatically disengages SR, so if your in that situation, you have now live with some mirror bounce - which could be worse than the motion you are trying to dampen out. So, I went looking for some mirror bounce information ... DSLR Mirror lock up how usefull is it for handheld photography?. So, possibly the moral of the story is to get a very good tripod - if you are going to use a tripod at all.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
General lens/mirror/sensor cleaning for noobs? Pentax K-x	maxwolfie	Troubleshooting and Beginner Help	15	07-20-2010 09:45 AM
Important evening	Ira	General Talk	2	04-22-2010 03:36 AM
not important	ghillindy1	General Talk	10	04-20-2010 01:20 PM
k-7 one click video tools for noobs	netuser	Video Recording and Processing	7	09-15-2009 07:12 PM
Drift this road noobs!	KrisK10D	Post Your Photos!	12	07-27-2008 09:27 PM

12-26-2009, 02:14 AM	#2
LeDave Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Minneapolis - St. Paul Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,067	Originally posted by joodiespost Why does the SR function need to be turned off when the camera is being used with a Tripod? Is that necessary? The picture makes an emphasis on this by putting "Caution" next to it as if it's crucial. I've always wandered about this too. I know that with SR enabled while on a tripod, it increases the shake somehow; however I don't quite understand how this mechanism actually really works and why you need to disable it when tripoded.

12-26-2009, 02:37 AM	#3
Damn Brit Guest	I believe it is because SR works by stabilising on both the horizontal and vertical. When on a tripod SR works against itself and induces movement. I'm sure someone else will have a more technical answer but I would compare it to sitting in your car with one foot on the brake and the other pressing the accelerator.

12-26-2009, 02:56 AM	#4
joodiespost Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 336 Original Poster	yeah guys i'd really like to know this. So Gary what you're saying is for SR to work, it needs some sort of "shake" to feed it's appetite. Guess we'll have to wait till tomorrow to find out, go to bed guys ^^ Last edited by J.Scott; 12-26-2009 at 03:07 AM. Reason: comment removed

12-26-2009, 03:34 AM	#5
ytterbium Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,076	I think it may be more related to long exposures than to tripod. Since it uses accelerometers to sense motion, it is not sensing the motion itself, but rather a change in motion or its speed. There might be some part of algorithm to get movement information from this, like - if a motion changes to opposite direction, system starts to compensate for it, and does a steady movement in that direction until another motion change occurs. If such steady moving compensation is in progress - initiated by shutter release vibration for example, but the camera is still on tripod - a smear will occur, because there is no actual motion. The system might get in some sort of self oscillation as well - by ever increasing SR action causing more vibration, and being compensated for even further, without any accelerometer inputs to distract this cycle. For short exposure times this works very well, since either the shake is so frequent that it changes it's direction constantly, or exposure is shorter than the time camera motion might settle.

12-26-2009, 03:37 AM	#6
Damn Brit Guest	Originally posted by ytterbium I think it may be more related to long exposures than to tripod. Probably the combination of the two.

12-26-2009, 04:23 AM	#7
amoringello Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Virginia, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,562	You can get something like the following if you leave the SR on with a tripod... (I do not see this all the time, in fact this is the first time I've seen such behavior.) With SR Without SR

12-26-2009, 11:14 AM	#9
joodiespost Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 336 Original Poster	I sure there's a reason the manual is putting an emphasis on turning off SR with Tripod. And it doesn't take much effort to turn it off so I guess i'll be doing that ^^

12-27-2009, 06:37 AM	#10
Winnie Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 93	Good info, thanks for making the thread.

12-27-2009, 03:52 PM	#11
Oggy Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: West Sussex UK Posts: 235	I have heard many theories on why the SR should be off on a tripod, most of which do not sound very plausible. The one that sounds most plausible to me as an engineer is that the resonant frequency of the camera in your hands is going to be very different to that of the camera on a tripod. The SR is obviously set up to to cope with the camera being hand held, but cannot handle the higher resonant of the tripod.

12-27-2009, 04:39 PM	#12
erickallemeyn Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: United States Posts: 112	Also, an easy way to lockup the mirror and disable SR is to use the 2-second timer feature. this locks up the mirror, disables SR, then takes the photo 2 seconds later.

12-27-2009, 09:26 PM	#13
joodiespost Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 336 Original Poster	yeah when I do use the tripod, I realize that even the pressing of the shutter button can cause some movement. It is best to use the 2 second timer on the tripod. Good point ^^

12-28-2009, 10:45 AM	#14
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,554	The SR system can cause a blurred shot when using the tripod. It doesn't happen very often so you will find a lot of people will dispute that advice in the manual and leave the SR on all the time. Until, of course, it happens to one of their shots.

12-28-2009, 11:15 AM	#15
mickeyobe Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,759	"DSLR Mirror lock up how usefull is it for handheld photography?." It will rerduce shutter lag time somewhat but since DSLR's have very short shutter lag times I can think of no advantage at all. The disadvantage is that you wont see what you are photographing. Mickey