Which Flash?

slow2focus · 01-07-2010, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by atown

But...that kinda blows the whole purpose of having a P-TTL auto-exposure flash, so then you may as well set it manually by the guide number, if you have to get the right exposure by trial and error with EV compensation ! Also makes "candid" shots a lost cause.

I have a couple of old auto flashes (Pentax AF200T and AF330FTZ, and Vivitar auto thyristor 3700) that I could try out, but am a bit leery of the trigger voltage issues... I don't want to fry my K10D ! So, has anyone tried any of those flashes, either in auto or manual mode, and are they safe ?

Thanks to all responders !

Alan

If you own the flash, you should just spend a couple of bucks on a DVM and measure it your self. a cheapy meter from the shack will get you in the ball park. red on center pin and blk on the side of the shoe. After the flash charges, fire off a test flash then wait till the 2nd charge measure when the flash is ready. anything under 6V is safe. above 6 but below 24, your call. above 24, I won't try it.

GerryL · 01-07-2010, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by atown

But...that kinda blows the whole purpose of having a P-TTL auto-exposure flash, so then you may as well set it manually by the guide number, if you have to get the right exposure by trial and error with EV compensation ! Also makes "candid" shots a lost cause.

Thanks to all responders !

Alan

I'm just saying "kinda" because the flash goes on to full power to compensate for the bounce since it has to get as much light it has since you have to deflect the light.
The camera still does P-TTL to get the correct exposure.

I've posted some shots for you so you can see for yourself.
All these where bounced off the ceiling that was 10ft.
ISO was set at 400 and I made it only 4MP due to attachment limits.
The first two was angled about 60 degrees and the third was at 90 degree (100% vertical) bounce! You can see the shadow on the lamp on the third photo going down.
The room was in almost total darkness and the AF assist of the flash nailed the focus and fast!
Judge for yourself if it is underexposed.
I'll try to attach the pix without resizing but if I can't then there is no PP but only resizing on the pix.
I blurred out some areas on purpose (the only PP) 'coz of personal identification and personal information on the receipts.

GerryL · 01-07-2010, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by atown

I have a couple of old auto flashes (Pentax AF200T and AF330FTZ, and Vivitar auto thyristor 3700) that I could try out, but am a bit leery of the trigger voltage issues... I don't want to fry my K10D ! So, has anyone tried any of those flashes, either in auto or manual mode, and are they safe ?

Thanks to all responders !

Alan

I have read somewhere that all the Pentax flashes are still compatible with the voltage.
I wouldn't recommend on using the Vivitar though without actually testing the voltage.
Someone more knowledgeable about these Pentax flashes would probably give a better response.

mattdm · 01-12-2010, 08:54 PM

Originally posted by GerryL

The Tumax made flashes by the way kinda lose their P-TTL when bounced (when flash head is angled, automatic flash setting place it on "manual") since the flash goes to full manual power (compensating for the bounce).

Oh, wow, I wasn't aware of that — can anyone double-confirm this? That's a serious drawback for these models that I should highlight on my guide. (For the Sigma, Pentax, and Metz models, it's very arguable that P-TTL works best with bounced flash.)

GerryL · 01-15-2010, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by mattdm

Oh, wow, I wasn't aware of that — can anyone double-confirm this? That's a serious drawback for these models that I should highlight on my guide. (For the Sigma, Pentax, and Metz models, it's very arguable that P-TTL works best with bounced flash.)

Matt, I'm not really sure if you can call it that (losing P-TTL) but it does disengage (maybe because of the zoom) and locks the setting to 50mm zoom setting and I would bet full power to compensate for the bounce.
I haven't done a complete test though so, don't make conclusions.
Here is the description on the manual.

*I think this was discussed too here in the forum fairly recently about the Pentax OEM P-TTL flashes doing the same (losing P-TTL during bounce or swivel).
I'll look for that thread and post the link here too.

GerryL · 01-15-2010, 11:04 AM

Found the thread I was talking about Matt.
It's kind of a controversy how P-TTL really works as with what I just mentioned about the Tumax flashes seem to be the same with the Pentax flashes.
Here's the link to the discussion: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-photography-techniques-styles/867...otography.html
You know better than me, I suppose, so you can draw your own conclusions.

atown · 01-15-2010, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by GerryL

Welcome to the forums Gjmcd.
I have the Bower SFD 926P and it is the same as the Vivitar DF 383 or the Rokinon or the Digital Concepts with the LCD back.
They all work P-TTL
These flashes are exactly the same except for some minor cosmetic/appearance differences because they are all made by Tumax.

Are you sure the Rokinon D980AFZ-P is P-TTL ? The Overstock ad just says TTL, and I read somewhere else it does not do P-TTL exposure.

GerryL · 01-15-2010, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by atown

Are you sure the Rokinon D980AFZ-P is P-TTL ? The Overstock ad just says TTL, and I read somewhere else it does not do P-TTL exposure.

It is P-TTL atown!
Sure as sure as can be it's P-TTL as I have the Bower variant/clone/rebrand/subcontracted type.
All those flash units are made by a company called Tumax.
When they brand it/make it for Pentax, they make it P-TTL, so be sure to get the Pentax one..not for Canon or Nikon or Olympus or Sony as they make them for these brands too!
If they make it for other brands, they make it compatible or dedicated for that brand.
This is the same for the Bower or Digital Concepts or Vivitar or Rokinon for that matter.
The power zoom type are the ones with the LCD back.
The manual zoom type are the ones with the simple LED indicator lights.
Go to the site of Tumax I linked on the above posts so you can see that they make these flashes dedicated for whatever brand they make it for.

GerryL · 01-15-2010, 04:05 PM

Matt, I just did a simple test and it actually doesn't lose the P-TTL when you have set it on that automatic P-TTL (TTL on the generic LCD screen).
I angled the bounce head in a very small increment only enough to lock the zoom head to 50mm thinking I angled it 45 degrees or more upwards.
I, in actually just angled it like 5-10 degrees off the horizontal, so it basically still bursts its lights forward.
I took a photo of an item and went closer for each shot until I was almost in macro mode (using the DA18-55mm).
The flash still produced the right amount of exposure and the power output of the flash still varied depending on how near you are the subject you are shooting.
More power when afar the subject and barely using enough power when close up.
Tumax made them to specs, I guess!
I'm actually glad I bought this flash now!

GerryL · 01-15-2010, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by atown

Are you sure the Rokinon D980AFZ-P is P-TTL ? The Overstock ad just says TTL, and I read somewhere else it does not do P-TTL exposure.

I can post you part of the manual too like the above attachment I made so you can see the instructions for different camera brands.
They give only one generic intruction manual, I believe, for every variant that they sell whether it be for Pentax, Oly, Sony, Canon or Nikon.
If you have further questions, just post them and I'll get back to them when I get the time.

01-07-2010, 04:43 PM	#17
GerryL Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: CA Posts: 2,731	Originally posted by atown But...that kinda blows the whole purpose of having a P-TTL auto-exposure flash, so then you may as well set it manually by the guide number, if you have to get the right exposure by trial and error with EV compensation ! Also makes "candid" shots a lost cause. Thanks to all responders ! Alan I'm just saying "kinda" because the flash goes on to full power to compensate for the bounce since it has to get as much light it has since you have to deflect the light. The camera still does P-TTL to get the correct exposure. I've posted some shots for you so you can see for yourself. All these where bounced off the ceiling that was 10ft. ISO was set at 400 and I made it only 4MP due to attachment limits. The first two was angled about 60 degrees and the third was at 90 degree (100% vertical) bounce! You can see the shadow on the lamp on the third photo going down. The room was in almost total darkness and the AF assist of the flash nailed the focus and fast! Judge for yourself if it is underexposed. I'll try to attach the pix without resizing but if I can't then there is no PP but only resizing on the pix. I blurred out some areas on purpose (the only PP) 'coz of personal identification and personal information on the receipts. Attached Images

01-15-2010, 10:52 AM	#20
GerryL Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: CA Posts: 2,731	Originally posted by mattdm Oh, wow, I wasn't aware of that — can anyone double-confirm this? That's a serious drawback for these models that I should highlight on my guide. (For the Sigma, Pentax, and Metz models, it's very arguable that P-TTL works best with bounced flash.) Matt, I'm not really sure if you can call it that (losing P-TTL) but it does disengage (maybe because of the zoom) and locks the setting to 50mm zoom setting and I would bet full power to compensate for the bounce. I haven't done a complete test though so, don't make conclusions. Here is the description on the manual. *I think this was discussed too here in the forum fairly recently about the Pentax OEM P-TTL flashes doing the same (losing P-TTL during bounce or swivel). I'll look for that thread and post the link here too. Attached Images

01-15-2010, 12:26 PM	#22
atown Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: United States Photos: Gallery Posts: 50	Is Rokinon D980AFZ-P P-TTL or just TTL ? Originally posted by GerryL Welcome to the forums Gjmcd. I have the Bower SFD 926P and it is the same as the Vivitar DF 383 or the Rokinon or the Digital Concepts with the LCD back. They all work P-TTL These flashes are exactly the same except for some minor cosmetic/appearance differences because they are all made by Tumax. Are you sure the Rokinon D980AFZ-P is P-TTL ? The Overstock ad just says TTL, and I read somewhere else it does not do P-TTL exposure.

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01-07-2010, 11:41 AM	#16
slow2focus Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 82	Originally posted by atown But...that kinda blows the whole purpose of having a P-TTL auto-exposure flash, so then you may as well set it manually by the guide number, if you have to get the right exposure by trial and error with EV compensation ! Also makes "candid" shots a lost cause. I have a couple of old auto flashes (Pentax AF200T and AF330FTZ, and Vivitar auto thyristor 3700) that I could try out, but am a bit leery of the trigger voltage issues... I don't want to fry my K10D ! So, has anyone tried any of those flashes, either in auto or manual mode, and are they safe ? Thanks to all responders ! Alan If you own the flash, you should just spend a couple of bucks on a DVM and measure it your self. a cheapy meter from the shack will get you in the ball park. red on center pin and blk on the side of the shoe. After the flash charges, fire off a test flash then wait till the 2nd charge measure when the flash is ready. anything under 6V is safe. above 6 but below 24, your call. above 24, I won't try it.

01-07-2010, 04:46 PM	#18
GerryL Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: CA Posts: 2,731	Originally posted by atown I have a couple of old auto flashes (Pentax AF200T and AF330FTZ, and Vivitar auto thyristor 3700) that I could try out, but am a bit leery of the trigger voltage issues... I don't want to fry my K10D ! So, has anyone tried any of those flashes, either in auto or manual mode, and are they safe ? Thanks to all responders ! Alan I have read somewhere that all the Pentax flashes are still compatible with the voltage. I wouldn't recommend on using the Vivitar though without actually testing the voltage. Someone more knowledgeable about these Pentax flashes would probably give a better response.

01-12-2010, 08:54 PM	#19
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948	Originally posted by GerryL The Tumax made flashes by the way kinda lose their P-TTL when bounced (when flash head is angled, automatic flash setting place it on "manual") since the flash goes to full manual power (compensating for the bounce). Oh, wow, I wasn't aware of that — can anyone double-confirm this? That's a serious drawback for these models that I should highlight on my guide. (For the Sigma, Pentax, and Metz models, it's very arguable that P-TTL works best with bounced flash.)

01-15-2010, 11:04 AM	#21
GerryL Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: CA Posts: 2,731	Found the thread I was talking about Matt. It's kind of a controversy how P-TTL really works as with what I just mentioned about the Tumax flashes seem to be the same with the Pentax flashes. Here's the link to the discussion: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-photography-techniques-styles/867...otography.html You know better than me, I suppose, so you can draw your own conclusions.

01-15-2010, 03:56 PM	#23
GerryL Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: CA Posts: 2,731	Originally posted by atown Are you sure the Rokinon D980AFZ-P is P-TTL ? The Overstock ad just says TTL, and I read somewhere else it does not do P-TTL exposure. It is P-TTL atown! Sure as sure as can be it's P-TTL as I have the Bower variant/clone/rebrand/subcontracted type. All those flash units are made by a company called Tumax. When they brand it/make it for Pentax, they make it P-TTL, so be sure to get the Pentax one..not for Canon or Nikon or Olympus or Sony as they make them for these brands too! If they make it for other brands, they make it compatible or dedicated for that brand. This is the same for the Bower or Digital Concepts or Vivitar or Rokinon for that matter. The power zoom type are the ones with the LCD back. The manual zoom type are the ones with the simple LED indicator lights. Go to the site of Tumax I linked on the above posts so you can see that they make these flashes dedicated for whatever brand they make it for.

01-15-2010, 04:05 PM	#24
GerryL Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: CA Posts: 2,731	Matt, I just did a simple test and it actually doesn't lose the P-TTL when you have set it on that automatic P-TTL (TTL on the generic LCD screen). I angled the bounce head in a very small increment only enough to lock the zoom head to 50mm thinking I angled it 45 degrees or more upwards. I, in actually just angled it like 5-10 degrees off the horizontal, so it basically still bursts its lights forward. I took a photo of an item and went closer for each shot until I was almost in macro mode (using the DA18-55mm). The flash still produced the right amount of exposure and the power output of the flash still varied depending on how near you are the subject you are shooting. More power when afar the subject and barely using enough power when close up. Tumax made them to specs, I guess! I'm actually glad I bought this flash now!

01-15-2010, 04:13 PM	#25
GerryL Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: CA Posts: 2,731	Originally posted by atown Are you sure the Rokinon D980AFZ-P is P-TTL ? The Overstock ad just says TTL, and I read somewhere else it does not do P-TTL exposure. I can post you part of the manual too like the above attachment I made so you can see the instructions for different camera brands. They give only one generic intruction manual, I believe, for every variant that they sell whether it be for Pentax, Oly, Sony, Canon or Nikon. If you have further questions, just post them and I'll get back to them when I get the time.