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01-17-2010, 03:32 PM   #16
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Do Pentax publish any data on the minimum battery voltage which the camera will work from?

01-18-2010, 09:42 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote


Sanyo Eneloops are the stand in hybrid low-self-discharge cells, but lots of other cells use the same basic technology (duracell precharged, other brands too - different retailers carry different brands). Check any of the other threads on batteries. Hybrid NiMH cells have completely revolutionized the AA industry, at least as it applies to DSLR's.
I use Eneloops and have a set of lithiums for emergency backup. The eneloops pay themselves off within 2 or 3 recharges and aren't that much worse than lithiums. Eneloops are the way to go.
01-18-2010, 12:18 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by peterh337 Quote
Do Pentax publish any data on the minimum battery voltage which the camera will work from?
Not that I know of. All that is known about the subject has been determined empirically. Plenty of people have produced graphs and so forth.

But really, it's quite simple. You don't need to look at numebrs. You need to look at actual experiences. As I've said, Eneloops and other hybrid/pre-charged/low-self-discharge cells work great. See any of a hundred other threads in which everyone unanimously says the same. If you're curious as to why, then by all means, research the hundreds of threads where people have produced graphs showing voltage under load over time and how different cells perform. But the bottom line remains the same whether you look at those graphs or not - modern hybrid cells work great in Pentax DSLR's.
01-18-2010, 04:48 PM   #19
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So, is this about cameras or batteries?

01-18-2010, 08:19 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by GerryL Quote
So, is this about cameras or batteries?
Be careful Gary might moved this thread in a new section ( Pentax Dslr Batteries Section)
01-19-2010, 09:54 AM   #21
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Li-Ion Blows. :(

I tend to agree. I hate custom Li-ion batteries with a passion.

I bought by K200D purely because it took rechargable AA's.

If Pentax were to bring out a CamCorder that ran from AA's tomorrow I would buy it.

It makes life so much easier. I have the one 10x cell charger for my AA and AAA's. I just stock up as I need more and now with the hybrid cells, I simply charge and shelve my spares ready for use.

I'll be keen to give the new NiZn cells a go too shortly.

Oh, and of course, until the new K200D replacement comes out. Of course the K200D is the best AA based DSLR!

.-.-.
01-20-2010, 01:51 AM   #22
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The camera makers make loads of $$$$$ from the custom batteries.

I bought a Canon S90 for my girlfriend at Xmas (stunning quality pics BTW, though the raw+jpeg mode is dud due to a firmware bug; jpeg- or raw-only works ok) and the Canon battery was $90. Most punters will pay that even though on Ebay you can find them for $10; I often find they don't last as long but they are OK.
01-20-2010, 07:01 AM   #23
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To the original IQ question, I've only had my K-x for a few days, and I don't own a K200, but I do own a K10d, which has the same sensor. I agree with Marc that the differences in IQ between all of the recent Pentax cameras is far less dramatic if you shoot raw. Treat the K10 or K20 high ISO images with a quality NR program, and you can get some shots that come closer to the K-x that JPEGs would indicate. My gut says the raw difference is more than a stop from the K10d, and less than a stop from the K20d, but I have not really done a controlled test, either.

I do think you pick up a stop at the bottom end, as well. My quick tests show the K-x to be noiseless to my eyes at ISO 250. If you are looking for your maximum IQ, I see a difference between the K10d and the K-x at around ISO 250, but realistically at those sensitivity levels, all of the Pentax DSLRs I've tried exceed any need I have for image quality.

I purchased the K-x as a travel camera, and using AA batteries was a huge plus, as was the size for slipping into a waist pack. If it were my only camera, I'm not sure it would edge out the K200d. I go about 6'3," and the K100/200d is really about as small as is comfortable for my hands for extended, serious shooting. I used smaller film cameras for years, but controls were fewer, aperture was on the lens and winders filled out hands.

01-20-2010, 11:03 AM   #24
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Interesting replies.

I've been looking at a program which simply converts the Pentax RAW files to high quality Jpegs, without renaming etc. Just very simple. But didn't find anything. So this remains an extra step, with the Pentax software.

BTW I have bought some Sanyo ENELOOPs. I can see why they work in the Pentax cameras. They are not 1.2V. Coming off charge, they are 1.46V-1.47V and take a fair while to get down to anywhere near 1.2V. Whereas NIMH start at just over 1.2V.

The Eneloops are much heavier than the Lithium primary cells though, and four of them add at least 50g to the camera weight.
01-20-2010, 11:14 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by peterh337 Quote
I've been looking at a program which simply converts the Pentax RAW files to high quality Jpegs, without renaming etc. Just very simple. But didn't find anything. So this remains an extra step, with the Pentax software.
If you're limited to the Pentax software, no way wou;d I consider shooting RAW - far too much bother. It's more modern "non-destructive" (parametric) image editing programs like Lightroom, Aperture, Photoshop, ACDSee Pro, Bibble 5, and Lightzone that make RAW palatable.

QuoteQuote:
BTW I have bought some Sanyo ENELOOPs. I can see why they work in the Pentax cameras. They are not 1.2V. Coming off charge, they are 1.46V-1.47V
Maybe tested with a simple voltmeter, but tested under load, they do pretty much immediately drop to closer to 1.2V. But that's OK, because the camera is fine with a cell that can do 1.2V under load.

QuoteQuote:
Whereas NIMH start at just over 1.2V.
Hmm, maybe burned out ones. The ones I've bought all show just like the Eneloops - tested with a simple voltmeter not under load, they show close to 1.5V right out of the charger, slow decline to 1.2V with continued use. But again, the issue is that when actually under load, these dip below whatever the actul threshold is far faster than Eneloops do.

QuoteQuote:
The Eneloops are much heavier than the Lithium primary cells though
True, that's the one downside. Some people use Eneloops as their main cells and keep lithiums as the spares in their camera case, which strike me as a pretty good way to go when trying to minimize weight. Especially if you keep topping off the Eneloops often enough to avoid needing the lithiums most of the time (and msot source agree that with a decent charger, topping off modern rechargeables is perfectly acceptable).
01-20-2010, 01:34 PM   #26
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What charger do you use for Eneloops?

I boguth 4 of them, with a charger which turns out to be a "NIMH" charger with no cutoff other than a 9hr timer...

I also have an "intelligent" NIMH charger from FRIWO which initially flattens the batteries and then charges them until various indicators appear. I vaguely recall that there is a little dip in the voltage, and certainly the battery temperature rises when it's fully charged.

Can one use these chargers with Eneloops?
01-20-2010, 01:55 PM   #27
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So, a bit of threadjacking, and if I missed this in the converstion I apologize, but how do Eneloops perform against proprietary batteries... say, a K100D vs K10D. Which one loses power first?
01-20-2010, 02:02 PM   #28
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Repent Evil Li-Ion users! :|

Depends on lots of things.

Type of batteries NiMh, NiZn, Capacity, Charger, matching, and so on.

You did say Eneloops, but I'll throw the rest in because it can make a lot of difference.

There are a few different brands of LSD batteries now. Some claim to be much better then Eneloops.

Personally I think all custom Li-Ion packs are good for these days is fleecing you out of extra cash!

.-.-.
QuoteOriginally posted by logic14 Quote
So, a bit of threadjacking, and if I missed this in the converstion I apologize, but how do Eneloops perform against proprietary batteries... say, a K100D vs K10D. Which one loses power first?
01-20-2010, 06:12 PM   #29
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First, Eneloops *are* NiMH. Special / "hybrid" NiMH (details are fuzzy), but NiMH nonetheless - so an NiMH charger works. I use the Lacrosse one that lots of people recommend - like yours, a "smart" charger. Yours should work just as well. But the one that comes with cells actually works fine too. While you hear people warn againt using cheap chargers, everyone I know who has used the supplied charger has had good results. Simply comparing K100D to K10D wouldn't really be testing the batteries only. But anyhow, they're comparable - 500-600 shots per charge.
01-21-2010, 03:52 AM   #30
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There's a guy in the Philippines who's K200D is better than your one.
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