Total picture wash flash problem

ma318 · 01-21-2010, 10:04 PM

I think you said you are using AV mode. For the M lens, you must use Manual mode. Try using Manual mode.

I think if you use AV mode with an M lens, the camera will not stop it down, it will always shoot at f2 for your M 50/2. No wonder you are getting overexposure with your flash.

aleonx3 · 01-21-2010, 10:06 PM

I haven't tried the built-in flash with MF lens, I suspect that it may not work as well as external flash.

MikesChevelle · 01-21-2010, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by ma318

I think you said you are using AV mode. For the M lens, you must use Manual mode. Try using Manual mode.

I think if you use AV mode with an M lens, the camera will not stop it down, it will always shoot at f2 for your M 50/2. No wonder you are getting overexposure with your flash.

I have been using manual for the majority of the day.

the two pics were taken in manual mode at F5.6 on auto iso and 180 shutterspeed

Jewelltrail · 01-21-2010, 10:10 PM

Those pics are not even close to being "pure white," which is how you described them opening the thread You are not that far off, you just haven't applied the precise settings yet--that is why I suggest you shoot in manual mode and make the incremental adjustments needed to get a well exposed shot. Do not rely on Auto anything in these circumstances.

Jewelltrail · 01-21-2010, 10:12 PM

Set all the settings yourself, including ISO--not just the manual mode setting for aperture and shutter speed.

noblepa · 01-21-2010, 11:04 PM

To the OP: I don't want to sound condescending or insulting, but in all these posts I don't get the feeling that you understand the simple fact that with a manual lens, your camera can not control flash exposure at all. YOU must control it. You can set auto ISO, which will only confuse things. You can set the shutter speed, but it is really the flash duration that controls the exposure, not the mechanical shutter.

Try this. Take a series of pictures of the identical scene. Put the camera in Manual mode. Set the shutter speed at X or 1/180. Set ISO at 100 (not auto ISO). Set the aperture wide open. Take a picture. Leave all the settings alone, except the aperture. Stop down one stop. Take another picture. Repeat until you have used every available stop on your lens. One of these pictures will be properly exposed.

Mike Cash · 01-22-2010, 04:15 AM

Originally posted by MikesChevelle

I have been using manual for the majority of the day.

the two pics were taken in manual mode at F5.6 on auto iso and 180 shutterspeed

The problem is that you have to stop ignoring the very best advice you have gotten on this thread, which is that regarding doing a bit of simple math using the flash's Guide Number. That works.....everything else is guesswork.

MikesChevelle · 01-22-2010, 07:33 AM

I will be the first to say that I only half know what I am doing.

How ever when I very first got the lense, I did know that it would only work on manual mode and that I would have to manually set the ap. Those pictures were completely white, as time went on they got less and less white. While I still dont know that much more I am maybe guessing that the lens was possible "frozen" as it is very cold here in STL and the lens was fogged up and it took about 30 minutes for that to go away. So maybe the aperture was just sluggish from being in the cold?

Here is a pic at an ISO of 200(my lowest manual setting) F5.6 and a shutter of 180, I would say WAY better than the same settings from last nights pic

aleonx3 · 01-22-2010, 10:05 AM

Happy ending... now enjoy your MF lens

I have at least 15 of those..

enoeske · 01-22-2010, 10:11 AM

My guess is that the auto ISO setting was reading a dark indoor environment and cranking up to 1600 or something. At that ISO, the flash is going to be waaaayyy to bright. Even at f/22, you are going to have some washed out pics. I think the answer was the ISO 200 setting to keep the flash toned down.

egordon99 · 01-22-2010, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by MikesChevelle

Seems ok to me. Really weird because if I do the same settings with my Promaster, i get the opposite results.

I am guessing the flash is firing at full power, heck I didnt even know my on camera flash had different levels.

Of course it does! With any lens that transmits the aperture to the body, the built-in flash uses P-TTL to determine the output needed.

egordon99 · 01-22-2010, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by MikesChevelle

Well the more pics I take, the better it gets. I have shot the last few in ap priority mode and its not the worst. Also I noticed that I cannot set the flash to any auto setting.

If the flash/body does not know the f-stop of the lens (which it won't with your SMC-M 50mm), it WILL ALWAYS FIRE AT FULL POWER.

The ONLY way to control the flash exposure is with your ISO and f-stop. Do NOT use AutoISO. If it's too bright, either use a smaller aperture or lower ISO.

</thread>

Marc Sabatella · 01-22-2010, 01:06 PM

I agree with the posters that say you need to step back, stop just randomly trying things,and instead read up on how exposure and flash work. Any book on photography should explain this, and you'll save yourself a *ton* of time and grief by actually getting suich a book (or finding and reading the information online). Googling for the terms aperture, shutter speed, and iso will give you tons of info about how exposure works without flash, and adding "guide number" to your searches will turn up info on how it works with flash.

When using fully automatic lenses and mdoes, you can get away with not knowing any of this, but if you're going to use a manual lens, you *must* use M mode (the paerture ring is ignored n other modes), and you *must* learn how to control the exposure yourself, as the camera will not do it for you - and that includes learning to control the flash.

But people have given you the basic answer here: because the flash always fire at full power, you need to use the manual method of setting flash exposure that any book on basic photography will explain: know the guide number of your flash for your selected ISO setting, divide that by the distance to your subject, and set your aperture there. That is how manual flash exposure works. Randomly fiddling with settings hoping for better results is neither necessary nor helpful. Reading up on the subject will answer your questions.

MikesChevelle · 01-22-2010, 02:54 PM

Thank you guys.

I did take a few at a low ISO yesterday and was still getting a few washes. I wonder if since the lens was so cold from being out with the mail man that is was just moving slow?

MikesChevelle · 01-22-2010, 04:13 PM

Off topic but does anyone know what this cream colored dot is on my lense. It doesnt line up with the ap or focus ring nor the red dot on the mount.

01-22-2010, 07:33 AM	#38
MikesChevelle Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: STL Photos: Gallery Posts: 119 Original Poster	I will be the first to say that I only half know what I am doing. How ever when I very first got the lense, I did know that it would only work on manual mode and that I would have to manually set the ap. Those pictures were completely white, as time went on they got less and less white. While I still dont know that much more I am maybe guessing that the lens was possible "frozen" as it is very cold here in STL and the lens was fogged up and it took about 30 minutes for that to go away. So maybe the aperture was just sluggish from being in the cold? Here is a pic at an ISO of 200(my lowest manual setting) F5.6 and a shutter of 180, I would say WAY better than the same settings from last nights pic Attached Images

01-22-2010, 04:13 PM	#45
MikesChevelle Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: STL Photos: Gallery Posts: 119 Original Poster	Off topic but does anyone know what this cream colored dot is on my lense. It doesnt line up with the ap or focus ring nor the red dot on the mount. Attached Images

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01-21-2010, 10:04 PM	#31
ma318 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: BC, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 174	I think you said you are using AV mode. For the M lens, you must use Manual mode. Try using Manual mode. I think if you use AV mode with an M lens, the camera will not stop it down, it will always shoot at f2 for your M 50/2. No wonder you are getting overexposure with your flash.

01-21-2010, 10:06 PM	#32
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	I haven't tried the built-in flash with MF lens, I suspect that it may not work as well as external flash.

01-21-2010, 10:10 PM	#33
MikesChevelle Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: STL Photos: Gallery Posts: 119 Original Poster	Originally posted by ma318 I think you said you are using AV mode. For the M lens, you must use Manual mode. Try using Manual mode. I think if you use AV mode with an M lens, the camera will not stop it down, it will always shoot at f2 for your M 50/2. No wonder you are getting overexposure with your flash. I have been using manual for the majority of the day. the two pics were taken in manual mode at F5.6 on auto iso and 180 shutterspeed

01-21-2010, 10:10 PM	#34
Jewelltrail Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Rhode Island Photos: Albums Posts: 4,180	Those pics are not even close to being "pure white," which is how you described them opening the thread You are not that far off, you just haven't applied the precise settings yet--that is why I suggest you shoot in manual mode and make the incremental adjustments needed to get a well exposed shot. Do not rely on Auto anything in these circumstances.

01-21-2010, 10:12 PM	#35
Jewelltrail Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Rhode Island Photos: Albums Posts: 4,180	Set all the settings yourself, including ISO--not just the manual mode setting for aperture and shutter speed.

01-21-2010, 11:04 PM	#36
noblepa Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bay Village, Ohio USA Posts: 1,142	To the OP: I don't want to sound condescending or insulting, but in all these posts I don't get the feeling that you understand the simple fact that with a manual lens, your camera can not control flash exposure at all. YOU must control it. You can set auto ISO, which will only confuse things. You can set the shutter speed, but it is really the flash duration that controls the exposure, not the mechanical shutter. Try this. Take a series of pictures of the identical scene. Put the camera in Manual mode. Set the shutter speed at X or 1/180. Set ISO at 100 (not auto ISO). Set the aperture wide open. Take a picture. Leave all the settings alone, except the aperture. Stop down one stop. Take another picture. Repeat until you have used every available stop on your lens. One of these pictures will be properly exposed.

01-22-2010, 04:15 AM	#37
Mike Cash Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Japan Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,950	Originally posted by MikesChevelle I have been using manual for the majority of the day. the two pics were taken in manual mode at F5.6 on auto iso and 180 shutterspeed The problem is that you have to stop ignoring the very best advice you have gotten on this thread, which is that regarding doing a bit of simple math using the flash's Guide Number. That works.....everything else is guesswork.

01-22-2010, 10:05 AM	#39
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Happy ending... now enjoy your MF lens I have at least 15 of those..

01-22-2010, 10:11 AM	#40
enoeske Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Surprise, Az Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,136	My guess is that the auto ISO setting was reading a dark indoor environment and cranking up to 1600 or something. At that ISO, the flash is going to be waaaayyy to bright. Even at f/22, you are going to have some washed out pics. I think the answer was the ISO 200 setting to keep the flash toned down.

01-22-2010, 10:18 AM	#41
egordon99 Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Outside of Philly Posts: 1,561	Originally posted by MikesChevelle Seems ok to me. Really weird because if I do the same settings with my Promaster, i get the opposite results. I am guessing the flash is firing at full power, heck I didnt even know my on camera flash had different levels. Of course it does! With any lens that transmits the aperture to the body, the built-in flash uses P-TTL to determine the output needed.

01-22-2010, 10:21 AM	#42
egordon99 Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Outside of Philly Posts: 1,561	Originally posted by MikesChevelle Well the more pics I take, the better it gets. I have shot the last few in ap priority mode and its not the worst. Also I noticed that I cannot set the flash to any auto setting. If the flash/body does not know the f-stop of the lens (which it won't with your SMC-M 50mm), it WILL ALWAYS FIRE AT FULL POWER. The ONLY way to control the flash exposure is with your ISO and f-stop. Do NOT use AutoISO. If it's too bright, either use a smaller aperture or lower ISO. </thread>

01-22-2010, 01:06 PM	#43
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	I agree with the posters that say you need to step back, stop just randomly trying things,and instead read up on how exposure and flash work. Any book on photography should explain this, and you'll save yourself a ton of time and grief by actually getting suich a book (or finding and reading the information online). Googling for the terms aperture, shutter speed, and iso will give you tons of info about how exposure works without flash, and adding "guide number" to your searches will turn up info on how it works with flash. When using fully automatic lenses and mdoes, you can get away with not knowing any of this, but if you're going to use a manual lens, you must use M mode (the paerture ring is ignored n other modes), and you must learn how to control the exposure yourself, as the camera will not do it for you - and that includes learning to control the flash. But people have given you the basic answer here: because the flash always fire at full power, you need to use the manual method of setting flash exposure that any book on basic photography will explain: know the guide number of your flash for your selected ISO setting, divide that by the distance to your subject, and set your aperture there. That is how manual flash exposure works. Randomly fiddling with settings hoping for better results is neither necessary nor helpful. Reading up on the subject will answer your questions.

01-22-2010, 02:54 PM	#44
MikesChevelle Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: STL Photos: Gallery Posts: 119 Original Poster	Thank you guys. I did take a few at a low ISO yesterday and was still getting a few washes. I wonder if since the lens was so cold from being out with the mail man that is was just moving slow?