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02-05-2010, 11:46 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Yes, it is. That's exactly how Green mode has always been described as working on cameras with Scene modes.

I stand corrected -
it is indeed for for Pentax dSLRs with Scene modes.
(I was thinking of other brands' full auto green modes)

Thanx.


Last edited by UnknownVT; 02-05-2010 at 12:08 PM. Reason: comment about full auto green
02-05-2010, 01:08 PM   #17
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Seems to be a lot of advice from people who don't own a k-x!

In AUTO PIC mode in low light situations the flash engages but it still shoots at shutter speeds of 1/8 or 1/10 with the resulting fuzzy picture. Yes I could set the camera to another setting (which I will probably have to do) but the point I was making is that "Night Scene Portrait " is a rather specialized option that the manual tells you to use a tri-pod for and I don't think it should be a default in the AUTO PICT mode which to my mind is a "point and shoot" option.
02-06-2010, 09:30 AM   #18
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Is it the right exposure though? What I mean is, when it selects night mode is it using a high ISO or a low ISO? If low then yes it's pretty stupid as it's assuming you are using a tripod when it should be bumping the ISO instead.

Just use P mode with auto ISO TBH, same thing essentially.
02-06-2010, 09:49 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alfisti Quote
Is it the right exposure though? What I mean is, when it selects night mode is it using a high ISO or a low ISO? If low then yes it's pretty stupid as it's assuming you are using a tripod when it should be bumping the ISO instead.
I did some testing. When Auto Picture selected Night Scene Portrait on a dark scene, the camera selected 1/8s, f/7.1, ISO 1600 with flash.

In P mode with flash the camera selected 1/40s. f/7.1, ISO 1600. Also, in Portrait mode the camera selected the same values as P mode.

When comparing my two test images, the subject was exposed identically, but the Night Scene Portrait image had a brighter background. So I would stick with my suggestion of just turning the mode dial one click to Portrait if AutoPict is giving trouble.

UnknownVT, what kind of shutter speeds are you getting? I would think that the SR should still be effective at 1/8s (seems to be for me.) Have you updated your firmware?

02-06-2010, 12:56 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by John52 Quote
Seems to be a lot of advice from people who don't own a k-x!
True, but the basic principles being discussed here are not unique to the K-x.

QuoteQuote:
In AUTO PIC mode in low light situations the flash engages but it still shoots at shutter speeds of 1/8 or 1/10 with the resulting fuzzy picture.
Could you post examples? If the flash is firing, you shouldn't get fuzzy pictures almost no matter how slow the shutter, because what's illuminating the subject is the flash more the ambient light, and the flash is of extremely short duration. The slow shutter speed would be an attempt to allow ambient light to fill in the background, so the picture doesn't look as harsh and ugly as most "dumb" / "naive" attempts at flash photography would turn out. So the result *should* be, a sharp subject and a background that isn't just totally black. In other words, it's completely sound technique.

I could certainly believe there might be certain rare cases where because of the direction and/or level of the ambient light, and the relative values and distances of the subject versus the background, you might run into some corner case where this technique blurs the subject as well, but that should be pretty unusual.
02-06-2010, 02:59 PM   #21
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Sounds like a bug, to me it seems like it's choosing Night portrait which will use both a slow shutter and flash (slow shutter sync) so that's exactly what you don't need.

Stick to P and auto ISO.
02-06-2010, 03:31 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alfisti Quote
Stick to P and auto ISO.
P mode doesnít work. This poor woman just wants to point and shoot, and have the flash pop up when needed, and that doesn't happen in P mode (thereís no auto-flash function in P mode.)

The flash does pop up in Portrait mode. So until Pentax makes an adjustment to the programming via firmware (if ever) to tweek how Night Scene is selected, turning the mode dial one click to Portrait is probably the easiest answer.

Also, I don't know what metering mode UnknownVT's camera is in, but it seems that when using Center-Weighted metering, the camera is selecting Portrait a lot more often. So in terms of trying to fix AutoPict, I'd suggest trying Center-Weighted metering. Otherwise, just turn the dial one notch.

Personally, I donít see why Pentax isnít using the SR to detect if the camera is stationary, and avoid modes with low shutter speeds. Or maybe they really believe the SR will keep the picture steady at those low speedsÖdunno.
02-06-2010, 06:08 PM   #23
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Although the K-x can be used as a point and shoot (a bloody expensive one at that) it isn't designed as such. It's designed as a transitional camera to take people from P&S to a more sophisticated style of shooting.

The fault in this case isn't with the camera but the user. There are far cheaper options for a P&S camera.

02-06-2010, 06:22 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
Although the K-x can be used as a point and shoot (a bloody expensive one at that) it isn't designed as such. It's designed as a transitional camera to take people from P&S to a more sophisticated style of shooting.

The fault in this case isn't with the camera but the user. There are far cheaper options for a P&S camera.
Then what of this post?
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/910751-post13.html

"i suggested kx to my friend who has no knowledge of photography, i am surprised by images he showed. pretty damn good, and i can tell you he is shooting in all auto mode."
02-06-2010, 06:32 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Graystar Quote
Then what of this post?
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/910751-post13.html

"i suggested kx to my friend who has no knowledge of photography, i am surprised by images he showed. pretty damn good, and i can tell you he is shooting in all auto mode."
Where did I say that the camera or someone using it can't take good pictures?
02-06-2010, 06:40 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
Where did I say that the camera or someone using it can't take good pictures?
I thought that's what this sentence stated...
QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
The fault in this case isn't with the camera but the user.
But as it appears I was wrong, I'll gladly accept your clarification of what you meant.
02-06-2010, 06:48 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Graystar Quote
I thought that's what this sentence stated...


But as it appears I was wrong, I'll gladly accept your clarification of what you meant.
Pentax don't want people to use these cameras for P&S, they want them to upgrade to bigger and better cameras.
In most cases the K-x probably will take great pictures but there will be occasions when it doesn't do what the user wants (as in the case of this thread).
OP calls it an annoying feature, I say that it's a feature that needs to be understood. It's not the fault of the camera if a user isn't going to take the trouble to learn to get the best out of it. That's why I said there were cheaper options for P&S.

In the situation described by OP, the K-x can take far better pictures than a P&S if the right settings are used.
02-06-2010, 06:52 PM   #28
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I call BS. I cannot believe the way this user is being blown off.

It's supposed to also appeal to "soccer mums" or why have AUTO to begin with? The whole point of super cheap entry level is to make it easy for new users so they get hooked on the mount, this is plain just pissing people off. Why do you think the D40 was such a red hot hit?

How is it the users fault if it keeps selecting slow sync flash? There is just NO WAY it needs 1/8th second and flash, it does that because it selects night portrait mode.

Maybe there is a sequence of settings that's doing this but calling "user error' is just a slap in the chops.

QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
Although the K-x can be used as a point and shoot (a bloody expensive one at that) it isn't designed as such. It's designed as a transitional camera to take people from P&S to a more sophisticated style of shooting.

The fault in this case isn't with the camera but the user. There are far cheaper options for a P&S camera.
02-06-2010, 06:54 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
Pentax don't want people to use these cameras for P&S, they want them to upgrade to bigger and better cameras.
In most cases the K-x probably will take great pictures but there will be occasions when it doesn't do what the user wants (as in the case of this thread).
OP calls it an annoying feature, I say that it's a feature that needs to be understood. It's not the fault of the camera if a user isn't going to take the trouble to learn to get the best out of it. That's why I said there were cheaper options for P&S.

In the situation described by OP, the K-x can take far better pictures than a P&S if the right settings are used.
Oh come on, Pentax reps would argue with you until they went blue in the face that the Kx is ideal for new DSLR users rather than merely a stepping stone, if it is a stepping stone why would they get the K7 when the Kx "cant take a good picture".

You're making no sense whatsoever.
02-06-2010, 07:50 PM   #30
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I'm not slapping any user in the "chops" or "blowing them off" as you put it.
I'm just pointing out that to get the most out of a K-x a skill set higher than that needed for a P&S camera.
You saying "...Getting people hooked on the mount" is no different to me saying that "Pentax wants them to upgrade to bigger and better cameras". Some users will be perfectly content with what the K-x and a kit lens offers them, some will be content with the K-x but decide to invest in better lenses and some will use it as a stepping stone to cameras with more functionality.
We're talking about a specific situation here where the auto function isn't giving good results, that's just the way the camera is. In that specific situation it's obviously necessary that learning more about the camera is going to give better results. The user has a choice - learn to be able to get better pictures with the camera in that situation or not.

I also never said that this was "user error", you're just putting words in my mouth, neither is it "camera error". The camera is operating according to how the manufacturer designed it.

If it was impossible to take the pictures we are talking about in this thread with any setting, I would be in full agreement that there is a problem with the camera, I'm no defender of Pentax. That isn't the case though and I stand by my statement that a P&S would serve the purpose required by this user.





QuoteOriginally posted by Alfisti Quote
I call BS. I cannot believe the way this user is being blown off.

It's supposed to also appeal to "soccer mums" or why have AUTO to begin with? The whole point of super cheap entry level is to make it easy for new users so they get hooked on the mount, this is plain just pissing people off. Why do you think the D40 was such a red hot hit?

How is it the users fault if it keeps selecting slow sync flash? There is just NO WAY it needs 1/8th second and flash, it does that because it selects night portrait mode.

Maybe there is a sequence of settings that's doing this but calling "user error' is just a slap in the chops.
QuoteOriginally posted by Alfisti Quote
Oh come on, Pentax reps would argue with you until they went blue in the face that the Kx is ideal for new DSLR users rather than merely a stepping stone, if it is a stepping stone why would they get the K7 when the Kx "cant take a good picture".

You're making no sense whatsoever.
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