Built in flash issue

goldenzebra · 04-08-2010, 11:17 PM

Hi All,

here is my problem:
I have K20d, and until now have no problem using the built in flash.
last week I was at a stalactiteד cave, were the light are dim.
I pop up the flash (I set the camera to Av), and the flash works fine.
After a few shots, I've notices that the flash stop firing, so I wait a few seconds (the battery was fresh and charged), but the flash didn't fire (and t should), the only thing that help was to turn the cam off and on (and after a few shots it happened again).
Any thoughts?
10x

edumad · 04-09-2010, 01:20 AM

That is very strange... Is the camera under warranty? Better get it to Pentax to have a look.

Arpe · 04-09-2010, 01:48 AM

Was it overheating from the flash firing to assist the Af maybe?

goldenzebra · 04-09-2010, 03:44 AM

The camera is under warrenty until Dec-2011 (I have enouhh time

)
I don't think that the camera get overhitted, I didn't take a lot of pictures.

Some more detailes about the stalactite cave we were:
The cave temperature is about 22-23 degrees celsius and the humidity is above 90% all the time (monitored).
The lights are very dim (e.g. ISO 640 F4.0 @0.5 sec).

When we got out of the cave I use the flash with no problems.

I guess that the cave conditions cause the camera to work the way it works

Another question - in such conditions, an external flash (like Pentax or Metz) should work better?

**Ash** · 04-09-2010, 04:25 AM

Are you also sure that in those conditions (a) there was enough time between shots for the battery to charge the flash again before shooting, and (b) the lighting conditions did not trick the camera into thinking that flash was not necessary for the shots?

Whilst it does sound fishy that the flash would only discharge sometimes when it is in a mode that mandates flash use if it's up, you should always rule out the other possibilities.

The external flash units will definitely do a better job at illuminating your exposures.

GerryL · 04-09-2010, 09:22 AM

I suggest you try it out more and do some tests using more of the pop-up flash as this is definitely something very odd. It (flash) should even fore continuously if need be albeit it has enough charge.
Check the battery too as it might not have enough charge on it to cycle the flash or the charge is too low to discharge the flash without draining it too fast.
It might be a power saving feature thingy that it would save the power for the other features rather than drain it all for the flash function.
If everything fails, just send it back for repairs.

JeffJS · 04-09-2010, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by goldenzebra

Hi All,

here is my problem:
I have K20d, and until now have no problem using the built in flash.
last week I was at a stalactiteד cave, were the light are dim.
I pop up the flash (I set the camera to Av), and the flash works fine.
After a few shots, I've notices that the flash stop firing, so I wait a few seconds (the battery was fresh and charged), but the flash didn't fire (and t should), the only thing that help was to turn the cam off and on (and after a few shots it happened again).
Any thoughts?
10x

Were you by any chance wearing a Hat?? Sometimes, the bill of my hat will partially push the pop up flash down just enough to disengage it.

goldenzebra · 04-09-2010, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by JeffJS

Were you by any chance wearing a Hat?? Sometimes, the bill of my hat will partially push the pop up flash down just enough to disengage it.

Actually yes, I was wearing a hat with a big bill, I didn't though of it!
I will try the camera for this issue and let you know the findings.

GerryL · 04-10-2010, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by JeffJS

Were you by any chance wearing a Hat?? Sometimes, the bill of my hat will partially push the pop up flash down just enough to disengage it.

This is something that I would never have thought of but could actually happen!
This is some good info.
It's good to be in a forum like this since all angles are covered by the different experiences of the members no matter how negligible or ridiculous it might seem.

Jodokast96 · 04-10-2010, 05:48 PM

Had that happen many times. I always need to turn my hat backwards when shooting.

**EsBee** · 04-10-2010, 06:28 PM

Check the custom setting 28 on your K20D, it might have been set to 2 which says to release shutter even when the flash is still charging. If you set it to 1, shutter release button will have no effect if the popup flash is open and is not charged.

JeffJS · 04-10-2010, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by GerryL

This is something that I would never have thought of but could actually happen!
This is some good info.
It's good to be in a forum like this since all angles are covered by the different experiences of the members no matter how negligible or ridiculous it might seem.

Yep, always check the obvious, even if it seems ridiculous.. I discovered it with my K10d on a bright sunny day when whatever I was shooting had shadows and I wanted to try fill flash.. I couldn't figure out why the flash wouldn't fire when pointed at the subject. I had just read about the flash AF strobe focus assist burning the flash out and had been using it the night before. However, I could randomly fire it pointing the camera somewhere else, without looking through the viewfinder.. I felt my hat slightly moving when I put the camera to my face to look through the viewfinder. Turned the hat around, problem solved.

Aanund · 04-10-2010, 11:23 PM

has happened to me as well, cudos to JeffJS for thinking of it. I think I stored it togheter with other repressed memories like forgetting to remove the lens cap...

goldenzebra · 04-11-2010, 03:03 AM

Originally posted by JeffJS

Yep, always check the obvious, even if it seems ridiculous.. I discovered it with my K10d on a bright sunny day when whatever I was shooting had shadows and I wanted to try fill flash.. I couldn't figure out why the flash wouldn't fire when pointed at the subject. I had just read about the flash AF strobe focus assist burning the flash out and had been using it the night before. However, I could randomly fire it pointing the camera somewhere else, without looking through the viewfinder.. I felt my hat slightly moving when I put the camera to my face to look through the viewfinder. Turned the hat around, problem solved.

The hat I have is of Columbia Sportswear combines with a back neck flap and an extended brim, so I didn't turned it (next time I'll rolled up the neck flap!).

Anyway, yesterday I was on a trip (without the hat

), and all works like charm (I use the flash a lot as a fill flash).

Maybe PENTAX (and others) should add a notice about this issue regarding flash problems inside the manual guide...

Arpe · 04-11-2010, 05:53 PM

Ha! That's happened to me too, but it didn't disengage the flash, just point it down a bit, but enough to be obvious. I couldn't even feel it doing it.

04-08-2010, 11:17 PM	#1
goldenzebra Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Photos: Albums Posts: 38	Built in flash issue Hi All, here is my problem: I have K20d, and until now have no problem using the built in flash. last week I was at a stalactiteד cave, were the light are dim. I pop up the flash (I set the camera to Av), and the flash works fine. After a few shots, I've notices that the flash stop firing, so I wait a few seconds (the battery was fresh and charged), but the flash didn't fire (and t should), the only thing that help was to turn the cam off and on (and after a few shots it happened again). Any thoughts? 10x

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04-09-2010, 01:20 AM	#2
edumad Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: UK Posts: 167	That is very strange... Is the camera under warranty? Better get it to Pentax to have a look.

04-09-2010, 01:48 AM	#3
Arpe Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,452	Was it overheating from the flash firing to assist the Af maybe?

04-09-2010, 03:44 AM	#4
goldenzebra Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Photos: Albums Posts: 38 Original Poster	The camera is under warrenty until Dec-2011 (I have enouhh time ) I don't think that the camera get overhitted, I didn't take a lot of pictures. Some more detailes about the stalactite cave we were: The cave temperature is about 22-23 degrees celsius and the humidity is above 90% all the time (monitored). The lights are very dim (e.g. ISO 640 F4.0 @0.5 sec). When we got out of the cave I use the flash with no problems. I guess that the cave conditions cause the camera to work the way it works Another question - in such conditions, an external flash (like Pentax or Metz) should work better?

04-09-2010, 04:25 AM	#5
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Are you also sure that in those conditions (a) there was enough time between shots for the battery to charge the flash again before shooting, and (b) the lighting conditions did not trick the camera into thinking that flash was not necessary for the shots? Whilst it does sound fishy that the flash would only discharge sometimes when it is in a mode that mandates flash use if it's up, you should always rule out the other possibilities. The external flash units will definitely do a better job at illuminating your exposures.

04-09-2010, 09:22 AM	#6
GerryL Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: CA Posts: 2,731	I suggest you try it out more and do some tests using more of the pop-up flash as this is definitely something very odd. It (flash) should even fore continuously if need be albeit it has enough charge. Check the battery too as it might not have enough charge on it to cycle the flash or the charge is too low to discharge the flash without draining it too fast. It might be a power saving feature thingy that it would save the power for the other features rather than drain it all for the flash function. If everything fails, just send it back for repairs.

04-09-2010, 09:27 AM	#7
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Originally posted by goldenzebra Hi All, here is my problem: I have K20d, and until now have no problem using the built in flash. last week I was at a stalactiteד cave, were the light are dim. I pop up the flash (I set the camera to Av), and the flash works fine. After a few shots, I've notices that the flash stop firing, so I wait a few seconds (the battery was fresh and charged), but the flash didn't fire (and t should), the only thing that help was to turn the cam off and on (and after a few shots it happened again). Any thoughts? 10x Were you by any chance wearing a Hat?? Sometimes, the bill of my hat will partially push the pop up flash down just enough to disengage it.

04-09-2010, 03:41 PM	#8
goldenzebra Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Photos: Albums Posts: 38 Original Poster	Originally posted by JeffJS Were you by any chance wearing a Hat?? Sometimes, the bill of my hat will partially push the pop up flash down just enough to disengage it. Actually yes, I was wearing a hat with a big bill, I didn't though of it! I will try the camera for this issue and let you know the findings.

04-10-2010, 04:38 PM	#9
GerryL Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: CA Posts: 2,731	Originally posted by JeffJS Were you by any chance wearing a Hat?? Sometimes, the bill of my hat will partially push the pop up flash down just enough to disengage it. This is something that I would never have thought of but could actually happen! This is some good info. It's good to be in a forum like this since all angles are covered by the different experiences of the members no matter how negligible or ridiculous it might seem.

04-10-2010, 05:48 PM	#10
Jodokast96 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Erial, NJ USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,134	Had that happen many times. I always need to turn my hat backwards when shooting.

04-10-2010, 06:28 PM	#11
EsBee Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: National Capital Region Posts: 739	Check the custom setting 28 on your K20D, it might have been set to 2 which says to release shutter even when the flash is still charging. If you set it to 1, shutter release button will have no effect if the popup flash is open and is not charged.

04-10-2010, 07:43 PM	#12
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Originally posted by GerryL This is something that I would never have thought of but could actually happen! This is some good info. It's good to be in a forum like this since all angles are covered by the different experiences of the members no matter how negligible or ridiculous it might seem. Yep, always check the obvious, even if it seems ridiculous.. I discovered it with my K10d on a bright sunny day when whatever I was shooting had shadows and I wanted to try fill flash.. I couldn't figure out why the flash wouldn't fire when pointed at the subject. I had just read about the flash AF strobe focus assist burning the flash out and had been using it the night before. However, I could randomly fire it pointing the camera somewhere else, without looking through the viewfinder.. I felt my hat slightly moving when I put the camera to my face to look through the viewfinder. Turned the hat around, problem solved.

04-10-2010, 11:23 PM	#13
Aanund Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 88	has happened to me as well, cudos to JeffJS for thinking of it. I think I stored it togheter with other repressed memories like forgetting to remove the lens cap...

04-11-2010, 03:03 AM	#14
goldenzebra Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Photos: Albums Posts: 38 Original Poster	Originally posted by JeffJS Yep, always check the obvious, even if it seems ridiculous.. I discovered it with my K10d on a bright sunny day when whatever I was shooting had shadows and I wanted to try fill flash.. I couldn't figure out why the flash wouldn't fire when pointed at the subject. I had just read about the flash AF strobe focus assist burning the flash out and had been using it the night before. However, I could randomly fire it pointing the camera somewhere else, without looking through the viewfinder.. I felt my hat slightly moving when I put the camera to my face to look through the viewfinder. Turned the hat around, problem solved. The hat I have is of Columbia Sportswear combines with a back neck flap and an extended brim, so I didn't turned it (next time I'll rolled up the neck flap!). Anyway, yesterday I was on a trip (without the hat ), and all works like charm (I use the flash a lot as a fill flash). Maybe PENTAX (and others) should add a notice about this issue regarding flash problems inside the manual guide...

04-11-2010, 05:53 PM	#15
Arpe Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,452	Ha! That's happened to me too, but it didn't disengage the flash, just point it down a bit, but enough to be obvious. I couldn't even feel it doing it.