AF C. just pisses me off.

timstone · 05-03-2010, 03:05 PM

Went out ATTEMPTING to do some birding today...even though all my lenses are short...using AF C. just irritates me...NONE of the pictures I took are in focus...even though my subjects were all sitting somewhat still (on powerlines and such) and I have the center as the focus point...and that is directly where I put the subject...right in the middle of the viewfinder.

Why is this crap not fixed?

Ben_Edict · 05-03-2010, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by timstone

Went out ATTEMPTING to do some birding today...even though all my lenses are short...using AF C. just irritates me...NONE of the pictures I took are in focus...even though my subjects were all sitting somewhat still (on powerlines and such) and I have the center as the focus point...and that is directly where I put the subject...right in the middle of the viewfinder.

Why is this crap not fixed?

If the birds rest and if you have the fixed AF point, why do you use AF-C at all? In that case AF-S would be a much better choice. Also, if you have short fl lenses, as you wrote, it is very demanding on any AF system to actually lock onto a bird, especially when there are other things in the image field (like those powerlines). A subject needs a certain minimum size to be recognizable for the AF - or to be more precise to show a contrast edge, that is big enough to fill the AF sensor area.

I find, that even with my "old" K20, AF-C works surprisingly good on flying birds, IF I have AF point selection on auto (for general shooting I always have the AF fixed on the center point) and IF I have a lens on the camera, which has enough focal length to give a healthy size to the bird.

Ben

**rparmar** · 05-03-2010, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by timstone

even though my subjects were all sitting somewhat still (on powerlines and such)

When I first read this I wondered how much you were paying your models.

Then I went back and saw it was birds of the feathery kind.

What camera? K-x?

hcc · 05-03-2010, 03:28 PM

Rather than AF-C, I would recomend to consider AF-S with a short burst of Hi continuous shots. It works quite well for me when birds are going to take off.

Ira · 05-03-2010, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by hcc

Rather than AF-C, I would recomend to consider AF-S with a short burst of Hi continuous shots. It works quite well for me when birds are going to take off.

I echoed my agreement with this in another thread. I hadn't done any fast action sports stuff like this before with my K-x, and I was amazed how many shots I was able fire off in AF-S and get great focus.

Ira · 05-03-2010, 03:49 PM

Another thing:

Trying to track a bird in flight requires a hell of a lot of skill. And it could simply be camera movement and incorrect panning.

It could also be your shutter speed--what was it?

And I don't know what camera you were using, but SR should definitely be OFF for this.

timstone · 05-03-2010, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by Ira

Another thing:

Trying to track a bird in flight requires a hell of a lot of skill. And it could simply be camera movement and incorrect panning.

It could also be your shutter speed--what was it?

And I don't know what camera you were using, but SR should definitely be OFF for this.

I was using a K-x...SR was on (why should it be off?) And my shutter speed was pretty high....ranging from 1/1000 all the way up to 1/2000

Originally posted by hcc

Rather than AF-C, I would recomend to consider AF-S with a short burst of Hi continuous shots. It works quite well for me when birds are going to take off.

I will try this the next time...but I think I may have a longer lens by then. *crosses fingers*

**Fries** · 05-03-2010, 04:07 PM

In the situation you where in one leaves SR on. But when you are panning - following a bird in flight - it is better to turn the SR of. I am not a technical guy, but I believe the SR-system is not made to cope with panning. It might even lead to extra blurring of the picture.

timstone · 05-03-2010, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by Fries

In the situation you where in one leaves SR on. But when you are panning - following a bird in flight - it is better to turn the SR of. I am not a technical guy, but I believe the SR-system is not made to cope with panning. It might even lead to extra blurring of the picture.

Gotcha...wasn't panning...well...I was when I was taking a picture of a bee...but that picture was more sharp than the ones of the birds that were sitting still.

**Fries** · 05-03-2010, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by timstone

Gotcha...wasn't panning...well...I was when I was taking a picture of a bee...but that picture was more sharp than the ones of the birds that were sitting still.

Well the situation with the birds and how difficult it is for any DSLR to focus in such a situation with a short lens is explained quite good already. And I've gotten decent results to panning birds when I forgot to turn to SR of. But panning is still a bit of hit and miss game for me at this moment and I probably didn't make this mistake often enough to see any interference from the SR. But it is a advice I've seen over and over again on this forum from members far more advanced in the art of photographing BIF's (birds in flight).

Ira · 05-03-2010, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by timstone

I was using a K-x...SR was on (why should it be off?)

I don't know how SR exactly works with AF-C on the K-x (my camera too), but here's a very relevant point:

Even if you're shooting a non-moving subject like a flower, SR is not active until you see the hand icon in your viewfinder. You have to half-press, and until you see that hand, it means SR isn't active, and that can make things WORSE. So I don't see how this is possible with AF-C, unless you WAIT to see that icon before hitting the shutter each time.

In addition, SR is NOT meant to handle panning motion in the first place. That's an impossible feat.

So perhaps SR isn't automatically disabled in AF-C because more times than not, the camera movement is not significant. But in your case, trying to pan and shoot birds in flight, this might very well be what is really screwing up these kinds of shots you're doing.

Arpe · 05-03-2010, 05:24 PM

AF-C works. Check my website below to see proof. You just gotta keep your point on the subject, presuming you've selected one point.
Not sure about SR, I've always just left it on, must try it off sometime. Though I think my shutter speeds are high enough to not matter.

yeatzee · 05-03-2010, 05:40 PM

AF-C works incredibly well on my K-7.... not so much my K200d however. I have full confidence in my new camera in that mode

Marc Sabatella · 05-04-2010, 02:39 PM

You might want to post a sample you are not happy with. I'm guesisng the problem is actually something as simple as the camera happening to choose to focus on the wire in front of the bird rather than bird. Even when selecting a focus point, the focus sensor is farily large; unless shooting a large bird from close range, it's pretty much guaranteed the wire would have been within range and presented a legitimate target to the camera. It doesn't know a bird from a wire and has no idea which might be more important to you.

ManOf7 · 05-04-2010, 03:03 PM

Timely post. Normally I am not a nature photographer, but I took my K7 out on a hike this past weekend. I was rewarded with a bald eagle sitting on a tree. I took a number of pictures, slowly getting closer and closer. AF-S. Focus was good.

As soon as he started to fly off though, I followed and tried to fire as much as possible, but the K7 would not fire (I guess becuase it did not have focus). I pressed the shutter maybe 1- times, but got to out of focus shots. AF-S again.

So from what I read here, I should use AF-S for the standing still, and then AF-C for when he takes off or is in flight?

05-03-2010, 03:05 PM	#1
timstone Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 400	AF C. just pisses me off. Went out ATTEMPTING to do some birding today...even though all my lenses are short...using AF C. just irritates me...NONE of the pictures I took are in focus...even though my subjects were all sitting somewhat still (on powerlines and such) and I have the center as the focus point...and that is directly where I put the subject...right in the middle of the viewfinder. Why is this crap not fixed?

05-03-2010, 03:15 PM	#2
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	Originally posted by timstone Went out ATTEMPTING to do some birding today...even though all my lenses are short...using AF C. just irritates me...NONE of the pictures I took are in focus...even though my subjects were all sitting somewhat still (on powerlines and such) and I have the center as the focus point...and that is directly where I put the subject...right in the middle of the viewfinder. Why is this crap not fixed? If the birds rest and if you have the fixed AF point, why do you use AF-C at all? In that case AF-S would be a much better choice. Also, if you have short fl lenses, as you wrote, it is very demanding on any AF system to actually lock onto a bird, especially when there are other things in the image field (like those powerlines). A subject needs a certain minimum size to be recognizable for the AF - or to be more precise to show a contrast edge, that is big enough to fill the AF sensor area. I find, that even with my "old" K20, AF-C works surprisingly good on flying birds, IF I have AF point selection on auto (for general shooting I always have the AF fixed on the center point) and IF I have a lens on the camera, which has enough focal length to give a healthy size to the bird. Ben

05-03-2010, 03:18 PM	#3
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,819	Originally posted by timstone even though my subjects were all sitting somewhat still (on powerlines and such) When I first read this I wondered how much you were paying your models. Then I went back and saw it was birds of the feathery kind. What camera? K-x?

05-03-2010, 03:28 PM	#4
hcc Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,002	Rather than AF-C, I would recomend to consider AF-S with a short burst of Hi continuous shots. It works quite well for me when birds are going to take off.

05-03-2010, 03:43 PM	#5
Ira Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Coral Springs, FL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,216	Originally posted by hcc Rather than AF-C, I would recomend to consider AF-S with a short burst of Hi continuous shots. It works quite well for me when birds are going to take off. I echoed my agreement with this in another thread. I hadn't done any fast action sports stuff like this before with my K-x, and I was amazed how many shots I was able fire off in AF-S and get great focus.

05-03-2010, 03:49 PM	#6
Ira Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Coral Springs, FL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,216	Another thing: Trying to track a bird in flight requires a hell of a lot of skill. And it could simply be camera movement and incorrect panning. It could also be your shutter speed--what was it? And I don't know what camera you were using, but SR should definitely be OFF for this.

05-03-2010, 03:56 PM	#7
timstone Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 400 Original Poster	Originally posted by Ira Another thing: Trying to track a bird in flight requires a hell of a lot of skill. And it could simply be camera movement and incorrect panning. It could also be your shutter speed--what was it? And I don't know what camera you were using, but SR should definitely be OFF for this. I was using a K-x...SR was on (why should it be off?) And my shutter speed was pretty high....ranging from 1/1000 all the way up to 1/2000 Originally posted by hcc Rather than AF-C, I would recomend to consider AF-S with a short burst of Hi continuous shots. It works quite well for me when birds are going to take off. I will try this the next time...but I think I may have a longer lens by then. crosses fingers

05-03-2010, 04:07 PM	#8
Fries Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Gauw Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,582	In the situation you where in one leaves SR on. But when you are panning - following a bird in flight - it is better to turn the SR of. I am not a technical guy, but I believe the SR-system is not made to cope with panning. It might even lead to extra blurring of the picture.

05-03-2010, 04:11 PM	#9
timstone Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 400 Original Poster	Originally posted by Fries In the situation you where in one leaves SR on. But when you are panning - following a bird in flight - it is better to turn the SR of. I am not a technical guy, but I believe the SR-system is not made to cope with panning. It might even lead to extra blurring of the picture. Gotcha...wasn't panning...well...I was when I was taking a picture of a bee...but that picture was more sharp than the ones of the birds that were sitting still.

05-03-2010, 04:30 PM	#10
Fries Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Gauw Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,582	Originally posted by timstone Gotcha...wasn't panning...well...I was when I was taking a picture of a bee...but that picture was more sharp than the ones of the birds that were sitting still. Well the situation with the birds and how difficult it is for any DSLR to focus in such a situation with a short lens is explained quite good already. And I've gotten decent results to panning birds when I forgot to turn to SR of. But panning is still a bit of hit and miss game for me at this moment and I probably didn't make this mistake often enough to see any interference from the SR. But it is a advice I've seen over and over again on this forum from members far more advanced in the art of photographing BIF's (birds in flight).

05-03-2010, 04:41 PM	#11
Ira Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Coral Springs, FL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,216	Originally posted by timstone I was using a K-x...SR was on (why should it be off?) I don't know how SR exactly works with AF-C on the K-x (my camera too), but here's a very relevant point: Even if you're shooting a non-moving subject like a flower, SR is not active until you see the hand icon in your viewfinder. You have to half-press, and until you see that hand, it means SR isn't active, and that can make things WORSE. So I don't see how this is possible with AF-C, unless you WAIT to see that icon before hitting the shutter each time. In addition, SR is NOT meant to handle panning motion in the first place. That's an impossible feat. So perhaps SR isn't automatically disabled in AF-C because more times than not, the camera movement is not significant. But in your case, trying to pan and shoot birds in flight, this might very well be what is really screwing up these kinds of shots you're doing.

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05-03-2010, 05:24 PM	#12
Arpe Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,452	AF-C works. Check my website below to see proof. You just gotta keep your point on the subject, presuming you've selected one point. Not sure about SR, I've always just left it on, must try it off sometime. Though I think my shutter speeds are high enough to not matter.

05-03-2010, 05:40 PM	#13
yeatzee Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Temecula Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,675	AF-C works incredibly well on my K-7.... not so much my K200d however. I have full confidence in my new camera in that mode

05-04-2010, 02:39 PM	#14
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	You might want to post a sample you are not happy with. I'm guesisng the problem is actually something as simple as the camera happening to choose to focus on the wire in front of the bird rather than bird. Even when selecting a focus point, the focus sensor is farily large; unless shooting a large bird from close range, it's pretty much guaranteed the wire would have been within range and presented a legitimate target to the camera. It doesn't know a bird from a wire and has no idea which might be more important to you.

05-04-2010, 03:03 PM	#15
ManOf7 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Van Isle Posts: 31	Timely post. Normally I am not a nature photographer, but I took my K7 out on a hike this past weekend. I was rewarded with a bald eagle sitting on a tree. I took a number of pictures, slowly getting closer and closer. AF-S. Focus was good. As soon as he started to fly off though, I followed and tried to fire as much as possible, but the K7 would not fire (I guess becuase it did not have focus). I pressed the shutter maybe 1- times, but got to out of focus shots. AF-S again. So from what I read here, I should use AF-S for the standing still, and then AF-C for when he takes off or is in flight?