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05-10-2010, 12:03 AM   #1
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K20D ISO6400 Image set

I have completed a lengthy comparison of the latest Topaz Denoise 4 against a number of other NR management software. I have not yet compiled my results, however... here is a preliminary set of ISO6400 images taken with a K20D and processed with Topaz Denoise, ACR6 and CS5.

All images taken at ISO6400 and preprocessed in ACR6/CS5
META: K20D, RAW, ISO6400, 28mm, f/5.6, 1/60 - 1/140

click on image for full size


click on image for full size


click on image for full size


SYNOPSIS:
Topaz Denoise 4 offers unprecedented noise management capabilities. It's strengths are global NR reduction and medium to high frequency noise and the ability to produce smooth image grain with some of the most difficult noise patterns.

CONCLUSION:
TDN4 performs best in conjunction with a RAW pre-processor such as ACR6 or LR3 rather than that of a single NR management solution. I have found TDN4 to produce never before seen detail retention using the above mentioned combination.

OTHER TOOLS USED:
  • GordonB's Magenta Cast remover
  • Niksoft Define - Debanding software
  • Adobe Bridge and Photoshop CS5
TDN 4 is officially the best NR removal tool in my High ISO workflow(period). A spot that held by Noiseware Professional for some time now. I will post my NR comparison samples sometime tomorrow(It's been a long night!).

Thanks for looking.
JB


Last edited by JohnBee; 05-01-2011 at 10:30 AM.
05-10-2010, 02:02 AM   #2
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Wow. Looks like as good as I can manage @ iso800 with my k20d!! Very impressed. What lens did you use?
05-10-2010, 02:09 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Page Quote
Wow. Looks like as good as I can manage @ iso800 with my k20d!! Very impressed. What lens did you use?
Thanks for the kinds words. But rest assured, any K20D will do the same.
I used a Vivitar 28mm CF with these.
05-10-2010, 02:59 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
I have completed a lengthy comparison of the latest Topaz Denoise 4 against a number of other NR management software. I have not yet compiled my results, however... here is a preliminary set of ISO6400 images taken with a K20D and processed with Topaz Denoise, ACR6 and CS5.

All images taken at ISO6400 and preprocessed in ACR6/CS5
META: K20D, RAW, ISO6400, 28mm, f/5.6, 1/60 - 1/140

click on image for full size


click on image for full size


click on image for full size


SYNOPSIS:
Topaz Denoise 4 offers unprecedented noise management capabilities. It's strengths are global NR reduction and medium to high frequency noise and the ability to produce smooth image grain with some of the most difficult noise patterns.

CONCLUSION:
TDN4 performs best in conjunction with a RAW pre-processor such as ACR6 or LR3 rather than that of a single NR management solution. I have found TDN4 to produce never before seen detail retention using the above mentioned combination.

OTHER TOOLS USED:
  • GordonB's Magenta Cast remover
  • Niksoft Define - Debanding software
  • Adobe Bridge and Photoshop CS5
TDN 4 is officially the best NR removal tool in my High ISO workflow(period). A spot that held by Noiseware Professional for some time now. I will post my NR comparison samples sometime tomorrow(It's been a long night!).

Thanks for looking.
JB

Thanks. I use Nik Define and I love its u-point feature (I seldom apply NR on the whole image). Do you know if Topaz has a feature similar to u-point or is it necessary to mask out areas manually in Photoshop?

Kind regards
.lars

05-10-2010, 09:18 AM   #5
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The images look great, but after spending more time with the new RAW-based noise reduction/sharpening in LR3b2 (and ACR6) I have found almost no need to use 3rd party de-noise software.

I've spent time going back through my catalog at some of my very noisy images and by tweaking the LR3b2 denoising - I cannot seem to make any improvement with 3rd party tools...

I would be curious how well I (or someone else) could process these images using just LR3b2 and fine-tuning the denoise and sharpening settings.
05-10-2010, 09:25 AM   #6
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LR3b2 is unlike anything I've used before for RAW noise. I wonder how much better it'll get prior to release!
05-10-2010, 10:51 AM   #7
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Interesting tread.
05-10-2010, 12:33 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by AdamJ Quote
The images look great, but after spending more time with the new RAW-based noise reduction/sharpening in LR3b2 (and ACR6) I have found almost no need to use 3rd party de-noise software.

I've spent time going back through my catalog at some of my very noisy images and by tweaking the LR3b2 denoising - I cannot seem to make any improvement with 3rd party tools...

I would be curious how well I (or someone else) could process these images using just LR3b2 and fine-tuning the denoise and sharpening settings.
I agree that LR3 finally got the NR functions down! When the final release comes out then bye bye Noise Ninja.

05-10-2010, 12:53 PM   #9
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Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by AdamJ Quote
The images look great, but after spending more time with the new RAW-based noise reduction/sharpening in LR3b2 (and ACR6) I have found almost no need to use 3rd party de-noise software.

I've spent time going back through my catalog at some of my very noisy images and by tweaking the LR3b2 denoising - I cannot seem to make any improvement with 3rd party tools...

I would be curious how well I (or someone else) could process these images using just LR3b2 and fine-tuning the denoise and sharpening settings.
One of the biggest reasons for 3'rd party processing over the ACR6 and LR3 RAW engine is where banding and luminance noise management comes into the picture(<- haha). Hrm... and though the new Adobe engine is quite possibly the best RAW color NR engine to date, it doesn't seem to do as good a job as Topaz Denoise 4 with some of the tougher luminance noise areas within a scene(see cat's eye in shadow).

Also... I've found Denoise 4 to be very good at OOF NR processing as well. A task that seemed only possible with Noiseware Pro up to this point. However... I have yet to try TDN4 in circumstances where low frequency noise is an issue(yellow blotching), which is quite possibly the worst possible noise scenario to tackle with high ISO image processing.

Unfortunately... the old model seems to stick.
As it stands, it seems like every tool has it strength and weakness, and the notion of a one size fits all noise management solution does yet seem upon us.
Having said all that... if Adobe ever sets its sights on Photoshop's own embedded noise management system, they may very well put an end to this fiasco

Last edited by JohnBee; 05-10-2010 at 02:29 PM.
05-10-2010, 01:20 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
One of the biggest reasons for 3'rd party processing over the ACR6 and LR3 RAW engine is where banding and luminance noise management comes into the picture(<- haha). Hrm... and though the new Adobe engine is quite possibly the best RAW color NR engine to date, it doesn't seem to do as good a job as Topaz Denoise 4 with some of the tougher luminance noise areas within a scene(see cat's eye in shadow).

Also... I've found Denoise 4 to be very good at OOF NR processing as well. A task that seemed only possible with Noiseware Pro up to this point. However... I have yet to try TDN4 in circumstances where low frequency noise is an issue(yellow blotching), which is quite possibly the worst possible noise scenario to work with.

Unfortunately... the old model seems to stick.
As it stands, it seems like every tool has it strength and weakness, and the notion of a one size fits all noise management solution seem is not yet upon us.

Having said all that... if Adobe set its sights on Photoshop's embedded noise management system, they may very well put an end to this entire fiasco
Those are some very good points, ones that I also discovered after posting my original comment...

I have some images from Panasonic m4/3 based camera and they have some high-ISO luminance based banding - definitely something that I would tackle outside of LR/ACR.

I also have some high-ISO images from a Canon XTi (400D) that have some serious yellow blotching (low frequency as you call it) and while LR3b2 makes an improvement it still needs additional repair.

While I agree there is no one-size fits all, I do think the 'scope' of what can be repaired by the denoise in LR3b2/ACR6 has expanded tremendously...
05-10-2010, 02:18 PM   #11
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Very interesting, maybe it is time to look at de-noise sw again. I used Neat Image for a while in 2002, but it seems things have improved a bit since then.

Do you have any link to info on "GordonB's Magenta Cast remover"? He usually seems to know his technical stuff, and I try to read his posts, but this one I missed.
05-10-2010, 02:26 PM   #12
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Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by wowtip Quote
Very interesting, maybe it is time to look at de-noise sw again. I used Neat Image for a while in 2002, but it seems things have improved a bit since then.

Do you have any link to info on "GordonB's Magenta Cast remover"? He usually seems to know his technical stuff, and I try to read his posts, but this one I missed.
Pentax K20D Raw Border Correcter vs0.9.0.0.zip
05-10-2010, 02:30 PM   #13
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You certainly are getting great results out of your PP, I must say.

Have you tried DXO Optics Pro 6 as your RAW convertor and NR tool? It is said to be excellent for it's NR and supports the K20D. 30 day free trial available.
05-10-2010, 02:40 PM   #14
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Nice pics John. I was wondering if you could post one along with the basig Pentax jpg processing so that we could see the difference?
05-10-2010, 03:01 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxPoke Quote
Nice pics John. I was wondering if you could post one along with the basig Pentax jpg processing so that we could see the difference?
Yes, I am putting together the NR comparison results as we speak, and I'll be posting all of the "before and after" shots along with the original RAW files that were processed here with that. So hopefully, I'll have it done by this evening(if things don't get to overwhelming).
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