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05-26-2010, 02:03 AM   #61
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Based on what I've seen so far (standard size prints and images displayed at monitor size), the IQ difference between K20D in K-7 is so minimal that it's not a decision factor for me, I'd choose between the two models on other differences (responsiveness, improved features, price, "fits my hand better", etc). YMMV.

Ps: I have a photoalbum of standard 10x13cm prints from the best photos of my little daughter. Some of those photos were made by Nikon D70 with kit lens, some with Pentax K-m with kit lens and some with DA17-70, a few with pro equipment. ISO speed all over the place from 100 to 1600, some were shot in jpg and some converted from raw. Apart from one ISO1600 photo from the K-m (where noise texture is clearly recognizable), nobody could tell which photo was made with what equipment, at what ISO and whether it's camera jpg or raw conversion. Even I don't have a clue if I don't remember what was used for that particular photo. YMMV.

05-26-2010, 07:32 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
No, it isn't. Reviews are all about pixel peeping at 100%.

RAW has nothing to do with it. Pixel peeping means looking at the image larger than can fit on your screen (which works out to being more or less equivalent to a print a bit smaller than your screen). Doing this means you are seeing the individual pixels of the image - like looking at a newspaper or magazine print through a magnifying glass.
Just to add to the melee, exactly what is wrong with Pixel peeping? I enjoy it, I've done it (or the analogue equivalent) for years, first with a loupe on my film, then with a 40x binocular microscope, then with high res film scanners/computer. And now thanks to the miracles of modern technology I can bath in pixels across my large dual monitor systems at 1:1 with absolutely no effort, it's great.

Last edited by distudio; 05-27-2010 at 08:53 PM.
05-27-2010, 10:25 AM   #63
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Nothing is wrong with it - I do it all the time too! I was just trying to put things into perspective a bit.
05-27-2010, 10:32 AM   #64
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Pixel peeping

Before making prints 8x10 inches and larger, I always check the image on the monitor at 100% to check that artifacts are under control and that the acutance is appropriate. So for me pixel peeping is very useful and can save $$, trees and time.

QuoteOriginally posted by distudio Quote
Just to add to the melee, exactly what is wrong with Pixel peeping? I enjoy it, I've done it (or the analogue equivalent) for years, first with a loupe on my film, then with a 40x binocular microscope, then with high res film scanners/computer. And now thanks to the miracles of modern technology I can bath in across my large dual monitor systems at 1:1 pixels with absolutely no effort, it's great.


05-28-2010, 12:19 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by justtakingpics Quote
Can you tell the difference with the eye? I don't really need video so if they are pretty close I could get the K20D. Thanks.
Some upgraders don't like to admit the K20D has just a bit better IQ versus its newer (but smaller K-7) brother, becuase its a two channel versus 4 channel CMOS, this gives it inheritaly less noise. Even Samsung with its EVIL could not lower the noise.

Look at DPR review, they do let you know the older K20D is performing just a tad better with respect to noise in RAW. Its not becuase of NR.

Look at the RAW ISO400 and ISO800 Chroma noise thumbnails/pics (and croma noise graphs for raw) from both the K20D and K-7 you will see the small increase of chroma noise, its there, its not a big deal, but its the truth. The K-7 is more advanced than the K20D so its other benifits far outway some slight croma noise increase. But if your looking for a deal, and are just concerned with IQ, and having a pretty good dSLR, don't overlook the K20D.

Last edited by jamesm007; 05-28-2010 at 07:05 PM.
05-29-2010, 04:01 AM   #66
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A pixel peeper:
Someone who has forgotten that photographic gear is a means to an end rather than an end in it's self.

K20D versus K-7:
Any difference that makes no real world practical difference is no difference.
05-29-2010, 07:39 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildman Quote
A pixel peeper:
Someone who has forgotten that photographic gear is a means to an end rather than an end in it's self.

K20D versus K-7:
Any difference that makes no real world practical difference is no difference.
I guess the issue is laid to rest then, thanks for the insight.
05-29-2010, 03:27 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildman Quote
A pixel peeper:
Someone who has forgotten that photographic gear is a means to an end rather than an end in it's self. K20D versus K-7:
Any difference that makes no real world practical difference is no difference.
With the help of GordonBGoods RBC program the K20D is about 1/2 to one stop better than the K-7 at iso3200 and above.

I could understand if its close, fairly close and we are talking 1/4 stop at the very most - however its more with one caveat; you will need to use GordonBGood Raw Boarder Corrector to take out the magenta tint (that Pentax fixed through a hardware change in the K-7). DPR does not call things close like the K-7 versus the D300 anything meaningful to us as in the quote below. DPR says the K-7 in RAW is just as good as its then competition. However if you really and truly need the most in high ISO you 'may' prefer the output of the K20D... its just how it is, Why do folks want to go FF? They pixel-peep everyone who has commented here has pixel-peeped.

Quote from DPR

"With noise reduction turned off we get a more accurate idea of how noisy these sensors are and the image looks slightly different to what we've seen above in the JPEG section of this page. In the RAW comparison the K-7 and K20D can easily keep up with the competition from Nikon and Canon. Surprisingly the older model K20D even outperforms its successor at higher sensitivities and produces slightly cleaner RAW files."

There is a real world difference at iso3200 and medium light levels without any GBG RBC programs as this explicitly states "Surprisingly the older model K20D even outperforms its successor at higher sensitivities and produces slightly cleaner RAW files".

I think a lot of tension has risen from this and then Pentax releasing the K-x which will make my K20D look silly at high ISO... but I don't care....


Last edited by jamesm007; 05-30-2010 at 01:25 AM.
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