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View Poll Results: Full frame or improved AF. What do you want in the "K-8"?
Full-frame sensor 8141.54%
Improved AF 11458.46%
Voters: 195. You may not vote on this poll

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05-21-2010, 08:52 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
I'd like:

K-x sensor (less noise, more DR)
Minimum shutter speed setting
Better AF
1080p H.264 video
Better menus
Dual SD slots

An improved SDM system with an AF video capability. Just one "kit" lens to do this would be a killer.
Kai Ego.

Jason

05-21-2010, 09:21 AM   #17
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FF with K-7's level of AF and better AF-C speed and accuracy - enough for me.

No need to make analogue of Nikon D300s AF system.
05-21-2010, 09:26 AM   #18
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Not news or rumor. Moved to DSLR.
05-21-2010, 09:28 AM   #19
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voted for improved AF
add better ISO performance to basket and I am more than happy with compact APS-C and my Limiteds rather than FF.

05-21-2010, 09:31 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by farfisa Quote
Your 60-250 is already FF compatible, according to the DA on FF lens thread (posted by Falconeye).

Ah, OK. But one down two to go, so still not super enthusiastic :-)
05-21-2010, 09:36 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Angevinn Quote
Did the world end? Did Nikon quit producing APS-C cameras or lenses? Did the old APS-C lenses and cameras quit working?

Does Nikon have the abysmal (sorry folks) market share that Pentax does?



Let's put it another way; do you think it makes sense for Panasonic or Olympus to release a FF DSLR? The issue they have will be more or less the issue that Pentax has, though a bit more exaggerated. I.e., not enough modern FF lenses in the lineup, much smaller market share than Canikon limiting the potential target-base for an FF lineup (that may or may not warrant the R&D costs), making a lot of their strengths/uniqueness moot due to the size increase (e.g., small form factor, sensor based composition adjustments, etc.), making it difficult to differentiate their FF with Canikon.

I'm not saying I don't *want* a Pentax FF camera, cuz I do. I'm saying that there's a good chance that Pentax trying to bring one out onto the market now would be a very bad idea.
05-21-2010, 09:45 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Angevinn Quote
What a flawed poll, only two choices? Couldn't Hoya/Pentax offer both or even more?
I limited this poll to the two topics that are discussed endlessly in the forum. A close third would be improving the high-ISO performance of the "K-8" to K-x levels or better, but I am assuming/hoping that improved ISO performance in the "K-8" is a given.

Also, it's much easier to want both/more than it is to create both/more. Would I like a FF K-8 with awesome AF and excellent ISO performance, along with 1080p60 with full manual controls? Certainly. Does Pentax have the resources to make all of that happen at once? I'm not so sure.
05-21-2010, 09:56 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by RawheaD Quote
Does Nikon have the abysmal (sorry folks) market share that Pentax does?
Hoya is breathing new life into Pentax. If it wasn't for Hoya, the MF 645D most likely would not have been released. Hoya is a smart, aggressive company. Pentax has the ability to greatly expand its market share and I see Hoya doing just that.



QuoteOriginally posted by RawheaD Quote
Let's put it another way; do you think it makes sense for Panasonic or Olympus to release a FF DSLR? The issue they have will be more or less the issue that Pentax has, though a bit more exaggerated. I.e., not enough modern FF lenses in the lineup, much smaller market share than Canikon limiting the potential target-base for an FF lineup (that may or may not warrant the R&D costs), making a lot of their strengths/uniqueness moot due to the size increase (e.g., small form factor, sensor based composition adjustments, etc.), making it difficult to differentiate their FF with Canikon.
You have to compare apples to apples. The M4/3 and 4/3 mount that Panasonic and Olympus use is no where near FF capable. The Pentax K-Mount is, (even on APS-C cameras like the K-X and K-7). No 4/3 lenses are FF capable, while Pentax has been sneaky about passing some FF lenses off as DA lenses (40mm 60-250, etc.).


QuoteOriginally posted by RawheaD Quote
I'm not saying I don't *want* a Pentax FF camera, cuz I do. I'm saying that there's a good chance that Pentax trying to bring one out onto the market now would be a very bad idea.
With such a bleak view of market share, why would Hoya/Pentax even bother releasing the MF 645D? The old Pentax committed suicide by low-balling the market. There are few profits when you compete on the cheap. That's where FF and MF come in. Hoya is turning Pentax around.


Last edited by Angevinn; 05-21-2010 at 01:04 PM. Reason: typo correction
05-21-2010, 10:14 AM   #24
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HOYA/Pentax

In any marketing poll (which I'm sure Hoya/Pentax has already done), you need more choices. Answers/feedback can be easily steered by how and what questions are asked.

How many improvements did the K-7 feature over the K20D? How about the K-X over the K-M? Both cameras had numerous upgrades. To make users pick between two isn't right.

QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I limited this poll to the two topics that are discussed endlessly in the forum. A close third would be improving the high-ISO performance of the "K-8" to K-x levels or better, but I am assuming/hoping that improved ISO performance in the "K-8" is a given.
QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Also, it's much easier to want both/more than it is to create both/more. Would I like a FF K-8 with awesome AF and excellent ISO performance, along with 1080p60 with full manual controls? Certainly. Does Pentax have the resources to make all of that happen at once? I'm not so sure.
This simply isn't true, in your post on > Pentax News and Rumors > New Pentax body? > Page 12> johnmflores (post #177) @ 6:19 a.m. posted:

"FF will come to Pentax eventually; that is the ceaseless march of technology. But if Pentax asked me what I wanted first - FF or better AF - I'd choose AF without hesitation."

This shows that the poll is not impartial and you prefer AF performance over a FF sensor.

Hoya (deep pockets) is at the wheel now at Pentax. It takes money (R&D) to make money (by selling quality, well engineered products). I see Hoya making a success of Pentax again. I don't see a half baked attempt (that's why I stated this is a flawed poll, with only two choices) by Hoya at upgrading Pentax' flagship DSLR camera.
05-21-2010, 10:21 AM   #25
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Pentax AF is good enough at this point ( at least for screw driven lenses for sure )

Give me FF nao!
05-21-2010, 10:32 AM   #26
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Put me down for FF please, I'm really odd and happy to run with manual focus lenses as I do now.
05-21-2010, 10:35 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Like any organization, Pentax has to prioritize their efforts. There's been a lot of discussion in the forum about both full frame sensors and improved AF. If you had to choose where Pentax concentrate its efforts for the K-7 successor, where would it be?

For the purposes of this survey, assume the following:
1. All the other parameters - price, size, weight, FPS, etc... - are equal.
2. Peripheral issues - SDM, vignetting of DA lenses, etc... - will not change.
3. Improved AF will be as close to Nikon/Canon systems as possible with current screw drive and SDM lenses. This includes improved low light AF, AF.S, and AF.C.
4. Full-frame sensor will exhibit performance similar to K-x sensor with regards to DR, ISO, etc and will be in the 16-20 megapixel range.
I would vote AF because I think investing in that would help their whole line-up.

I think a FF camera would be a new product in their line-up not a successor to the K-7. They would still need to release a Semi-pro APS-C DSLR to succeed the K-7 if they went after the FF market with a new body.
05-21-2010, 10:45 AM   #28
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Seems like the general consensus is that both are needed. I'm voting for the sensor as the AF seems ok for my purposes.

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05-21-2010, 10:52 AM   #29
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For me, sensor improvements are always coming (look at K-x and also the software like LR3 and Topaz Denoise4) so I'm happy being a step behind FF as the updates come along.
05-21-2010, 11:32 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Angevinn Quote
In any marketing poll (which I'm sure Hoya/Pentax has already done), you need more choices. Answers/feedback can be easily steered by how and what questions are asked.

How many improvements did the K-7 feature over the K20D? How about the K-X over the K-M? Both cameras had numerous upgrades. To make users pick between two isn't right.

This simply isn't true, in your post on > Pentax News and Rumors > New Pentax body? > Page 12> johnmflores (post #177) @ 6:19 a.m. posted:

"FF will come to Pentax eventually; that is the ceaseless march of technology. But if Pentax asked me what I wanted first - FF or better AF - I'd choose AF without hesitation."

This shows that the poll is not impartial and you prefer AF performance over a FF sensor.

Hoya (deep pockets) is at the wheel now at Pentax. It takes money (R&D) to make money (by selling quality, well engineered products). I see Hoya making a success of Pentax again. I don't see a half baked attempt (that's why I stated this is a flawed poll, with only two choices) by Hoya at upgrading Pentax' flagship DSLR camera.
A - If you want to spend more time looking at my post history, you'll also see me endorsing the idea of a $1700 FF Pentax and admitting that my thoughts about FF have changed over the past year. To cite just one post of mine as evidence of bias is a pretty weak argument. Ultimately, there's a difference between an impartial poll and an impartial pollster.

B - I invite you take the language of the poll and my first post and show me where my language was biased towards AF. I worked hard to make the language as unbiased as possible and would welcome any criticism. What I'd like to see (and I've mentioned this in other posts) is the polling system present the options in random order for each voter so as not to introduce bias in the ordering of the options.

C - Please support your claims that marketing polls should offer more choices. In all the ones that I've created and/or been involved in the creation of, I've never heard of this rule.

D - I make no claims that the K-8 won't feature other improvements. Nor do I make claims that the K-8 won't have both. At the end of the day, all I'm asking is a simple question, "If you had to choose between FF and improved AF, what would it be?" It's in no way a criticism of Hoya, Pentax or their collective abilities to produce a camera.

No back to our poll...
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