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View Poll Results: Full frame or improved AF. What do you want in the "K-8"?
Full-frame sensor 8141.54%
Improved AF 11458.46%
Voters: 195. You may not vote on this poll

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05-21-2010, 11:38 AM   #31
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I doubt the various Pentax/Hoya engineering teams work in isolation. So the improvements brought forth in the 645D will trickle down to the succeeding smaller format cameras. Let's wait and see the field reports from the 645D first to give us an idea of where things are headed. Then we can try the poll again.

Jack

05-21-2010, 11:51 AM - 1 Like   #32
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Impossible to qunatify

I'm an engineer who deals with marketing spec on a daily basis. The original question cannot be answered as formulated.

- First choice is from APS-C to FF. Although the level of improvement is sufficiently defined, the cost benefit is not. Would you, all that voted for FF, spend $10k to get that camera?

- Second choice is "improved AF". How much improved? Still worse than Canon or much better than anything in the world, but costs a million $$$ ?

A better question to ask is:

"For a camera in the price range of K7 (MSRP $1200), would you rather have FF sensor or improved AF at par or better than, say, D90?"
05-21-2010, 11:58 AM   #33
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Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by stanjo Quote
I'm an engineer who deals with marketing spec on a daily basis. The original question cannot be answered as formulated.

- First choice is from APS-C to FF. Although the level of improvement is sufficiently defined, the cost benefit is not. Would you, all that voted for FF, spend $10k to get that camera?

- Second choice is "improved AF". How much improved? Still worse than Canon or much better than anything in the world, but costs a million $$$ ?

A better question to ask is:

"For a camera in the price range of K7 (MSRP $1200), would you rather have FF sensor or improved AF at par or better than, say, D90?"
That's a good way of phrasing it also. I tried to quantify the AF performance in the first post - as close to Canon and Nikon with existing screw drive and SDM lenses. I don't post polls here often, so I wasn't 100% sure where the text would appear when posted. Sorry if you missed that.

Also, since Pentax's recent top dSLRs like the K20d and K-7 were introduced at around $1300, the presumption is that the successor will also be in that ballpark. Thus the use of the name "K-8" versus "new Pentax".
05-21-2010, 12:04 PM   #34
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Me too!

QuoteOriginally posted by angevinn Quote
i look forward to a ff k mount pentax dslr!
me too!!!

05-21-2010, 01:09 PM   #35
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A pentax with 7d specs too bad I have already jumped ship.
05-21-2010, 01:12 PM   #36
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AF-performance gets my vote.
I don't even want FF in a "K-8".
In a model above the "K-8" on the other hand....
05-21-2010, 01:19 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
-- even with an optical VF, I predict future AF systems to be contrast with a 33% transparent mirror. I don't know who will be first to market but from a technological point of view, it should happen very soon now. So, I don't want to see Pentax betting on a dead horse.

I have grown sick of slow operation and inaccurate focus which are both due to film era's phase detect technology with miniature sensors. You'll have to use all available light for as fast as possible focus operation. I want it now.
I find this interesting, and I hope it becomes true in the relatively near future. Fast contrast AF has some significant advantages. The most significant to me is that the feedback in the focus loop is based on the "sharpness" of the actual image that is recorded. Not on feedback to the AF sensors which have to be calibrated and adjusted. (There is no front focus, or back focus with contrast AF since focus is based on the actual image)

I don't know exactly why fast contrast AF is difficult, but my guess is that it has to do with processing speed of all the image data from the image sensor.

The other thing I like about the potential of fast contrast AF is the ability to have continuous focusing in video mode for moving objects.
05-21-2010, 01:36 PM - 1 Like   #38
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Echoing...

I echo RBellavance:
>I didn't vote, my choice would be "Improved DR and noise at high-ISO, but keep APS-C format".

05-21-2010, 02:50 PM   #39
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Voted improved AF. I don't need fullframe now, however I'd really like to know if there's ever going to be a FF Pentax, and buy my lenses accordingly.
05-21-2010, 03:07 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by bc_the_path Quote
I echo RBellavance:
>I didn't vote, my choice would be "Improved DR and noise at high-ISO, but keep APS-C format".
This is most important for me, but sensor improvements seem to be happening anyway. I doubt the next top model would have worse performance than the K-x, which is more than good enough for me.

So I'd want them to stick with APS-C and improve other things, like AF.

Last edited by Eruditass; 05-21-2010 at 03:15 PM.
05-21-2010, 08:52 PM   #41
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These polls are too easy to game, is there a closing date on this poll? I'm not voting in it because wording was poor and the results have already been skewed.
05-21-2010, 09:08 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Angevinn Quote
These polls are too easy to game, is there a closing date on this poll? I'm not voting in it because wording was poor and the results have already been skewed.
I'd like to think that I'm open to constructive criticism. Someone else suggested alternate wording and provided a rational argument for it. While I can't change the wording now, I've got food for thought for future polls.

You, on the other hand continue to claim bias in this poll without any real evidence. I have asked you before to show me where the wording this poll demonstrates a bias for either full-frame or improved AF and you have not responded. Can you please show me where you think the bias is? Otherwise I have no choice but to challenge your claims.

Also, can you please explain how polls here are 'gamed'? My understanding is that only registered members of the forum are allowed to vote, and once only. Yes, I suppose that you could register for the forum under a number of assumed identities (with unique user IDs, passwords, and email addresses IIRC) and then vote in this poll, but since there is really nothing to gain or lose here, I doubt that someone would spend the time to do that.

There is no closing date on this poll. Again, it's just for fun. The reality is that the fundamentals of the "K-8" were probably decided a while ago. This poll, like all threads, will die of natural causes.
05-21-2010, 09:30 PM   #43
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FF, definitely. I don't even care if it has autofocus.

Not in the market for any APS-C dSLR. :ugh:
05-22-2010, 12:17 AM   #44
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I want both!


CCD Kodak microlensed without-AA sensor please
and diagonal AF points layout AF system with enhanced AF-C algorythms


aaaand body size of K10D.

Thank you Pentax
05-22-2010, 08:17 AM   #45
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It seems like a pretty even split between both, actually, and I'm sure there are subdivisions within the two categories. For example within the Better AF category, some people like birders probably want better continuous AF, while other people might want better low light AF.

I was actually thinking about Pentax's problematic situation with how to move forward the other day. The solution I thought they should do would be to release two cameras --

One, a heavily specced, blazing AF, weather sealed APS-C camera. Eventually they could release new SDM to take advantage of the speed.

The other, a camera using older technology (think K-7 level) but with a full frame sensor.

I think this would be a dichotomy that they could use to their advantage over subsequent releases, and they could use this to appeal pretty well to two different sets of photographers.

The reason I thought it might be a feasible strategy is it would allow both cameras (theoretically) to be sold under $2,000 without competing directly against each other or the 645D. Meanwhile they could put a lot of their R&D into the APS-C camera and not abandon their already very good DA line.
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