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View Poll Results: Full frame or improved AF. What do you want in the "K-8"?
Full-frame sensor 8141.54%
Improved AF 11458.46%
Voters: 195. You may not vote on this poll

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05-22-2010, 09:01 AM   #46
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real world resources dictate one or the other unfortunately

QuoteOriginally posted by Urkeldaedalus Quote
It seems like a pretty even split between both, actually, and I'm sure there are subdivisions within the two categories. For example within the Better AF category, some people like birders probably want better continuous AF, while other people might want better low light AF.

I was actually thinking about Pentax's problematic situation with how to move forward the other day. The solution I thought they should do would be to release two cameras --

One, a heavily specced, blazing AF, weather sealed APS-C camera. Eventually they could release new SDM to take advantage of the speed.

The other, a camera using older technology (think K-7 level) but with a full frame sensor.

I think this would be a dichotomy that they could use to their advantage over subsequent releases, and they could use this to appeal pretty well to two different sets of photographers.

The reason I thought it might be a feasible strategy is it would allow both cameras (theoretically) to be sold under $2,000 without competing directly against each other or the 645D. Meanwhile they could put a lot of their R&D into the APS-C camera and not abandon their already very good DA line.
Good points all and I agree with them in a perfect world. However I don't think that Pentax has the resources to produce two top level cameras. Unfortunately, I doubt that their R&D resources is up to funding two different approaches. I'm pretty sure it would have to be FF or Killer AF. That being the case I voted for killer AF. Like more than a few here I am mystified by the instance on a FF camera.

NaCl(can someone please explain why I need a FF camera? )H2O

05-22-2010, 09:39 AM   #47
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Hi John,

I posted my evidence earlier. See my earlier post in this thread. The voting system is flawed because it is possible to vote more than once. That is what is meant by gamed. You or I may not do this kind of behavior, but you never know who may. To prove what point God only knows. There is a lot of viral marketing by other camera manufacturers (Sony!). I'm leary of online polls.

Again, the questions were not set up well. Plus, having no deadline on ending the vote; Adam or another moderator will have to close the poll to keep it from popping up all the time in the future. Why people resurrect dead threads is beyond me. Human behavior (especially online) can be very unpredictable.

Later,

A.


QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I'd like to think that I'm open to constructive criticism. Someone else suggested alternate wording and provided a rational argument for it. While I can't change the wording now, I've got food for thought for future polls.

You, on the other hand continue to claim bias in this poll without any real evidence. I have asked you before to show me where the wording this poll demonstrates a bias for either full-frame or improved AF and you have not responded. Can you please show me where you think the bias is? Otherwise I have no choice but to challenge your claims.

Also, can you please explain how polls here are 'gamed'? My understanding is that only registered members of the forum are allowed to vote, and once only. Yes, I suppose that you could register for the forum under a number of assumed identities (with unique user IDs, passwords, and email addresses IIRC) and then vote in this poll, but since there is really nothing to gain or lose here, I doubt that someone would spend the time to do that.

There is no closing date on this poll. Again, it's just for fun. The reality is that the fundamentals of the "K-8" were probably decided a while ago. This poll, like all threads, will die of natural causes.
05-22-2010, 10:18 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Angevinn Quote
it is possible to vote more than once
Not AFAIK. At least not w/o creating multiple login names.
05-22-2010, 10:21 AM   #49
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FF, I would love to use my voigtlander glass on FF

05-22-2010, 11:25 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
Good points all and I agree with them in a perfect world. However I don't think that Pentax has the resources to produce two top level cameras. Unfortunately, I doubt that their R&D resources is up to funding two different approaches. I'm pretty sure it would have to be FF or Killer AF. That being the case I voted for killer AF. Like more than a few here I am mystified by the instance on a FF camera.

NaCl(can someone please explain why I need a FF camera? )H2O
A lack of resources is why I was saying Pentax should release a lower specced full frame camera at first if they bring one out at all. Until they build new lenses that can take advantage of a $2500 camera's performance, why worry about spending research dollars on that behemoth? I was also trying to be more flexible with my thinking by making the APS-C camera the clear flag ship, and the FF camera the beginning of an alternate line that they could grow into.

While I can't explain why you need a full frame camera if you don't feel like you need one, I can explain why I want one.

The full frame camp seems to me to have varied motivations just like the better autofocus camp does. A lot of them, I think just based on what I've read, want full frame for better image quality gained from a larger sensor. Or better cropability that comes with those 24 mp sensors.

On my part, I'm pretty pleased on the whole with APS-C sensor image quality. If Pentax could boost the High ISO and dynamic performance even a little more over the K-x sensor, while still having clean and beautiful ISO 100-400, I don't think there'd be much I could complain about image quality wise.

Other full frame advocates want the narrow DOF you get with full frame. I think this would be cool, but this also isn't a deal breaker for me, as it's hard enough to get things in proper focus with narrow DOF on an APS-C sensor, let alone a full frame one.

I also think the really narrow DOF technique is overused, and I'd like to avoid the temptation to only use that in my photography.

The reason I want full frame is because I would like a high quality, wide angle and wide aperture lens 1.4 to 1.8, nice bokeh, sharp wide open, the whole bag, that I can use for everything from photojournalism to wedding photography to candid snaps. I already own one of these in the FA31 f/1.8, which becomes a 46 or so mm normal on a APS-C camera. There is no replacement for this in the Pentax system as it stands today.

So, to be honest, if Pentax came out with a great 18 or 20 mm f/1.4 lens, my main reason for wanting full frame would go away. But I doubt a lens like this will be released even more than I doubt that Pentax will go full frame.
05-22-2010, 11:35 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by RBellavance Quote
I didn't vote, my choice would be "Improved Dynamic Range and noise at high-ISO, but keep APS-C format".
I agree completely. To this list, I'd add "improved autofocus" which is how I voted. That would be a great camera. I already think my K200D is pretty darned good (I guess that gives everyone perspective of where I'm coming from). I want a K-x sensor, but I want a WR body too. And I love the two display screens, even at the cost of a little extra size.

Full frame would likely take the price range out of what I could afford.
05-22-2010, 11:51 AM   #52
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Improved AF first, and then if they go FF, release that later. If Pentax goes FF first, I would think that AF would suffer and trail even further behind.
05-22-2010, 12:44 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Angevinn Quote
Hi John,

I posted my evidence earlier. See my earlier post in this thread. The voting system is flawed because it is possible to vote more than once. That is what is meant by gamed. You or I may not do this kind of behavior, but you never know who may. To prove what point God only knows. There is a lot of viral marketing by other camera manufacturers (Sony!). I'm leary of online polls.

Again, the questions were not set up well. Plus, having no deadline on ending the vote; Adam or another moderator will have to close the poll to keep it from popping up all the time in the future. Why people resurrect dead threads is beyond me. Human behavior (especially online) can be very unpredictable.

Later,

A.
Angevinn, we clearly don't agree, and neither of us has convinced the other, so I'll discuss it no further after this post. Have a good day!

05-22-2010, 02:17 PM   #54
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Full Frame!!! In order to get rid of this "toy story" of APS. They tried to give us this format in the past (in the film-analog section but they fell down!)

I cannot admit to give 1.000 euros or dollars and get a DSLR body with similar sensor size with a compact camera.
As I have to spend more and more for different lenses and flashes and totally Pentax will have 2,000 or 3,000 euros/dollars for just a little better camera?

Don't you think that I must get more for the money? And I think that the most important is the quality of the image from a full frame sensor. I think that Auto focus will be helped by the bigger size of the sensor and ISO capabilities as well.

And the full Frame of Pentax could be Pentax K1D without video and Pentax K-1 with video capabilities.
05-22-2010, 08:46 PM   #55
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Improved AF

I have used many Pentax cameras over the years. I have three bodies now with AF: SF-1, MZ-S and K10D. I have a friend with a D300s, and I envy the AF on his camera, but no where near enough to change systems.

Those who are pushing the 24x36 (I refuse to call it "full frame" - I reserve that for Linhof 11x14) are the same as those who were complaining about 35mm while they used 120 and 220 film. 120 6x7 and 6x4.5 format cameras are large, heavy, expensive and don't have anywhere near the focal length range as the 35mm 24x36, even in the early days.

The quality of the APS-C format digital cameras' images are plenty good enough for me and for MPix. I have two 16x24 gallery wraps from them, and they are gorgeous. They tell me that I can go to 24x36 inches with the images. I've never printed anything bigger than 20x30, so ....
05-23-2010, 05:34 PM   #56
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If I didn't do sports I'd really not care about either option, but better tracking focus is wanted by me, so I voted AF.
05-23-2010, 05:45 PM   #57
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With 120 votes in...

AF 68
FF 52

It was neck and neck early on, but it looks like AF is starting to pull a gap. Interesting...
05-24-2010, 01:15 AM   #58
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the selection is too crippled and does not justify nor show a significant upgrade.

it seems that the concerns are solved by the 645D except AF. so here are my thought on what I want with the K-7 successor.

full-frame
CCD sensor
fast AF
high DR
ISO 100,000+ (although High DR would be more than enough and much better)
25MP+
base ISO 50 (not software-based).
small/portable WR body
EVIL
flash 1/1000
05-24-2010, 01:46 AM   #59
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Better AF

First of all, less noise at high ISO and better DR are my foremost wishes. It is a shame that K-x is way better than the K-7 when it comes to high ISO noise and DR, looking at the price difference and the fact that the K-x was released just months after the K-7.
05-24-2010, 01:53 AM   #60
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Improved AF

It would benefit both APS-C and FF (if ever they release one).
And because the cheaper APS-C model will sell more, ROI for AF R&D would be financially more appealing to Hoya

Just my opinion
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