K-7 Sharpness issues

ntlegg · 05-23-2010, 05:51 PM

Hi all -

Recently upgraded from my trusty K100D to the K-7, and am fairly dissatisfied with the move at this point. Compared with my K100D photos, the K-7 images generally just seem less sharp. For reference, I am using the same kit lens as I used with the K100D (saving up for an upgrade). I shoot exclusively in manual mode and have shot in all different apertures, shutter speeds, and ISOs, used a tripod, and tried anything I can think of short of purchasing a new lens in an attempt to find a solution. I am having no luck. Is this a common problem? Any hints? Am I missing something?

Thanks for your help in advance. I am open to hearing any ideas..

Nick

Adam · 05-23-2010, 06:09 PM

Could we see some sample shots? The k-7 has more pixels, so you're likely to notice more of the imperfections in your photos. Were you shooting MF or AF, and with SR or no SR?

hcc · 05-23-2010, 07:42 PM - **1 Like**

I am sorry to hear your trouble. Most Pentaxians are very happy with their K-7 and your experience is unusual.

I agree with Adam that it would help to see some photos. Also:
- are you shooting JPEG or RAW?

- what are the K-7 settings ? default settings ?

- do you using shake reduction (SR) ?

- what lens(es) did you use ?

A couple of points/comments:

*I note that you mention a tripod. There have been some discussion and threads on SR (Shake reduction) and tripod. Several Pentaxians advised against SR with tripod. (I do not use tripod and would not not comment.)

*If you use SR, do you wait about 1-2s to see the SR 'hand' light appearing ? If you shoot wth SR On and without waiting for the SR light to appear, your shot will be blurred.

*If you use a lens with IS, the camera SR and lens IS do not work together (one or the other, but not both), and yield blurred pictures.

GrinMode · 05-23-2010, 07:53 PM

I've read about hi res sensors out resolving the lenses, especially the 'cheap' ones. And this is true for any brand. Hence the version II of the 18-55 kit.

If this is the case (no intent to hijack the thread, but it would be general concern), is it then an absolute must to buy a good lens when buying a K-7?

Wheatfield · 05-23-2010, 09:15 PM

How are you focusing?
If AF, have you tried adjusting the focus bias to dial the lens in a bit closer?

Here's a little test:

With the camera on a firm tripod, focus the camera with the AF and take a picture.
Now, note the position of the focus ring and very slightly move the focus one way, and then the other, taking a picture at both positions.
See if one of the images is sharper than the AF adjusted picture.
If this is the case, then adjust the AF bias to bring your lens into focus.

robgo2 · 05-23-2010, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by hcc

I am sorry to hear your trouble. Most Pentaxians are very happy with their K-7 and your experience is unusual.

I agree with Adam that it would help to see some photos. Also:
- are you shooting JPEG or RAW?

- what are the K-7 settings ? default settings ?

- do you using shake reduction (SR) ?

- what lens(es) did you use ?

A couple of points/comments:

*I note that you mention a tripod. There have been some discussion and threads on SR (Shake reduction) and tripod. Several Pentaxians advised against SR with tripod. (I do not use tripod and would not not comment.)

*If you use SR, do you wait about 1-2s to see the SR 'hand' light appearing ? If you shoot wth SR On and without waiting for the SR light to appear, your shot will be blurred.

*If you use a lens with IS, the camera SR and lens IS do not work together (one or the other, but not both), and yield blurred pictures.

These are all relevant points. Once you have satisfied yourself that the camera settings are optimal and that you are using the camera properly, you should calibrate your lens with the AF Adjustment feature. It is quite possible that your lens is suffering from front or back focusing problems on the K-7 that it did not have on your previous camera. Once you have done a proper calibration, you should be more than satisfied with the sharpness of the K-7.

Rob

**interested_observer** · 05-23-2010, 09:26 PM

Evening, I upgraded to the K20 from a K100 just a year ago. I too thought that the Kit lens for the K100 (ver 1) would have resolution problems on the K20 so avoided using it. I finally wound up doing a test and was very happy (and surprised) with the results - although it looks like I deleted them.

I am wondering if there might be a slight front/back focusing issue going on with the camera/lens set. Just thinking out loud.

If you use the 2 second delay with the body on the tripod, SR should automatically be disabled.

Pentaxor · 05-24-2010, 01:04 AM

check your custom image setting. the K10D, K20D and K-7 have different default setting values. so you need to make the adjustment for the camera.

Class A · 05-24-2010, 01:47 AM

Originally posted by ntlegg

Compared with my K100D photos, the K-7 images generally just seem less sharp.

Are you comparing the shots at the same size (say 5x7) or do you "pixel peep"? If you do the latter, i.e., look at a 100% zoom then the K-7 will of course look worse. It has a lot more pixels and everything else being equal the higher number of pixels will show less local contrast.

To check the AF accuracy of your K-7 you may want to have a look at these Autofocus Adjustment Hints.

**Rondec** · 05-24-2010, 04:06 AM

I think that you will find that the K7 sensor out resolves the original kit lens capabilities, although unless you are looking at a pixel level photo it should still have more detail in it than the K100 offers. The things others suggest are worth looking into. Make certain the lens isn't front or back focusing, make certain there isn't an adjustment in Jpeg development that you could make.

I would get another lens -- whatever you can afford. Maybe a manual focus 50 and compare the two. Should find that it is significantly sharper with that. Oh, and post photos...

Ben_Edict · 05-24-2010, 04:24 AM

Originally posted by ntlegg

Hi all -

Recently upgraded from my trusty K100D to the K-7, and am fairly dissatisfied with the move at this point. Compared with my K100D photos, the K-7 images generally just seem less sharp. For reference, I am using the same kit lens as I used with the K100D (saving up for an upgrade). I shoot exclusively in manual mode and have shot in all different apertures, shutter speeds, and ISOs, used a tripod, and tried anything I can think of short of purchasing a new lens in an attempt to find a solution. I am having no luck. Is this a common problem? Any hints? Am I missing something?

Thanks for your help in advance. I am open to hearing any ideas..

Nick

Just as GrinMode and Rondec wrote: you saved in the wrong place. The old, original kit lens, that came with your K100 was replaced with version II to meet the increased requirements of the higher res sensors.

If you try to look at images from your K100 and from the K7 at the same size (not at the same magnification setting) the image should appear similar.

Some lenses are so much overstrained, that their contrast breaks in completely and then the images are much worse, than on low res sensors, even at the same image size. My copy of the Sigma 24-135/2.8-4.5 being a "good" example of this.

Ben

Class A · 05-24-2010, 05:09 AM

Originally posted by Ben_Edict

Some lenses are so much overstrained, that their contrast breaks in completely and then the images are much worse, than on low res sensors, even at the same image size.

I find this hard to believe. Even if a sensor already out resolves a lens, making it resolve more, will still improve the image quality (because MTF curves are multiplied in an optical chain). Something else must be going on, if you really observe a degradation when going to a better resolving sensor.

henryjing · 05-24-2010, 07:31 AM

Acctually I have the same problem about the K-7 sharpness, anybody has a suggestion of K-7 in-camera setup?

**Just1MoreDave** · 05-24-2010, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by henryjing

Acctually I have the same problem about the K-7 sharpness, anybody has a suggestion of K-7 in-camera setup?

This is important advice so I'm repeating it:

Originally posted by Class A

Are you comparing the shots at the same size (say 5x7) or do you "pixel peep"? If you do the latter, i.e., look at a 100% zoom then the K-7 will of course look worse. It has a lot more pixels and everything else being equal the higher number of pixels will show less local contrast.

I noticed that Adobe Camera RAW 5.5 was applying sharpening in the converter for the K-7, and I had turned it off for the *ist DS. That's about the extent of my sharpness comparison so far.

alexeyga · 05-24-2010, 12:13 PM

It's fairly easy to check the AF accuracy on K7...
1)setup a target (closer to the camera is better) (the famous 3 AA-batteries test or the plain and simple any TEXT at 45 deg)
2)setup the camera on a tripod and don't forget to turn the SR off
3)if you have a remote, use it, if not setup the camera into 2sec timer mode.
4)open up the apperture
5)take a shot looking throught the VF
6)throw the lens out of focus
7)take a shot using LV using the AF-button to focus
8)throw the lens out of focus
9)still in LV, switch to MF, zoom-in 100% on your target and focus by hands... until you see that it's dead sharp! take the shot...

One of these pics will tell you the truth... But carefull.... there are somethimes things that are best to left unknown...

05-23-2010, 05:51 PM	#1
ntlegg New Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 5	K-7 Sharpness issues Hi all - Recently upgraded from my trusty K100D to the K-7, and am fairly dissatisfied with the move at this point. Compared with my K100D photos, the K-7 images generally just seem less sharp. For reference, I am using the same kit lens as I used with the K100D (saving up for an upgrade). I shoot exclusively in manual mode and have shot in all different apertures, shutter speeds, and ISOs, used a tripod, and tried anything I can think of short of purchasing a new lens in an attempt to find a solution. I am having no luck. Is this a common problem? Any hints? Am I missing something? Thanks for your help in advance. I am open to hearing any ideas.. Nick

05-23-2010, 07:42 PM - 1 Like	#3
hcc Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,002	I am sorry to hear your trouble. Most Pentaxians are very happy with their K-7 and your experience is unusual. I agree with Adam that it would help to see some photos. Also: - are you shooting JPEG or RAW? - what are the K-7 settings ? default settings ? - do you using shake reduction (SR) ? - what lens(es) did you use ? A couple of points/comments: I note that you mention a tripod. There have been some discussion and threads on SR (Shake reduction) and tripod. Several Pentaxians advised against SR with tripod. (I do not use tripod and would not not comment.) If you use SR, do you wait about 1-2s to see the SR 'hand' light appearing ? If you shoot wth SR On and without waiting for the SR light to appear, your shot will be blurred. If you use a lens with IS, the camera SR and lens IS do not work together (one or the other, but not both), and yield blurred pictures. Last edited by hcc; 05-23-2010 at 07:45 PM. Reason: typos*

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
k-7 sharpness / fine sharpness / fine sharpness 2	mattdm	Pentax DSLR Discussion	10	12-12-2010 08:10 AM
Help with k-7 sharpness	shaun2k	Pentax DSLR Discussion	14	02-11-2010 06:25 PM
Sharpness VS Fine-Sharpness in k20d	wasim_altaf	Pentax DSLR Discussion	8	10-12-2009 11:41 AM
Sharpness vs Fine Sharpness on K20D	morfic	Pentax DSLR Discussion	2	11-02-2008 10:13 AM
Fine sharpness and sharpness move together on K20D 1.01	morfic	Pentax DSLR Discussion	2	07-11-2008 09:18 PM

05-23-2010, 06:09 PM	#2
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	Could we see some sample shots? The k-7 has more pixels, so you're likely to notice more of the imperfections in your photos. Were you shooting MF or AF, and with SR or no SR?

05-23-2010, 07:53 PM	#4
GrinMode Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 249	I've read about hi res sensors out resolving the lenses, especially the 'cheap' ones. And this is true for any brand. Hence the version II of the 18-55 kit. If this is the case (no intent to hijack the thread, but it would be general concern), is it then an absolute must to buy a good lens when buying a K-7?

05-23-2010, 09:15 PM	#5
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	How are you focusing? If AF, have you tried adjusting the focus bias to dial the lens in a bit closer? Here's a little test: With the camera on a firm tripod, focus the camera with the AF and take a picture. Now, note the position of the focus ring and very slightly move the focus one way, and then the other, taking a picture at both positions. See if one of the images is sharper than the AF adjusted picture. If this is the case, then adjust the AF bias to bring your lens into focus.

05-23-2010, 09:17 PM	#6
robgo2 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Mexico Photos: Albums Posts: 1,125	Originally posted by hcc I am sorry to hear your trouble. Most Pentaxians are very happy with their K-7 and your experience is unusual. I agree with Adam that it would help to see some photos. Also: - are you shooting JPEG or RAW? - what are the K-7 settings ? default settings ? - do you using shake reduction (SR) ? - what lens(es) did you use ? A couple of points/comments: I note that you mention a tripod. There have been some discussion and threads on SR (Shake reduction) and tripod. Several Pentaxians advised against SR with tripod. (I do not use tripod and would not not comment.) If you use SR, do you wait about 1-2s to see the SR 'hand' light appearing ? If you shoot wth SR On and without waiting for the SR light to appear, your shot will be blurred. *If you use a lens with IS, the camera SR and lens IS do not work together (one or the other, but not both), and yield blurred pictures. These are all relevant points. Once you have satisfied yourself that the camera settings are optimal and that you are using the camera properly, you should calibrate your lens with the AF Adjustment feature. It is quite possible that your lens is suffering from front or back focusing problems on the K-7 that it did not have on your previous camera. Once you have done a proper calibration, you should be more than satisfied with the sharpness of the K-7. Rob

05-23-2010, 09:26 PM	#7
interested_observer Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,707	Evening, I upgraded to the K20 from a K100 just a year ago. I too thought that the Kit lens for the K100 (ver 1) would have resolution problems on the K20 so avoided using it. I finally wound up doing a test and was very happy (and surprised) with the results - although it looks like I deleted them. I am wondering if there might be a slight front/back focusing issue going on with the camera/lens set. Just thinking out loud. If you use the 2 second delay with the body on the tripod, SR should automatically be disabled.

05-24-2010, 01:04 AM	#8
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	check your custom image setting. the K10D, K20D and K-7 have different default setting values. so you need to make the adjustment for the camera.

05-24-2010, 01:47 AM	#9
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by ntlegg Compared with my K100D photos, the K-7 images generally just seem less sharp. Are you comparing the shots at the same size (say 5x7) or do you "pixel peep"? If you do the latter, i.e., look at a 100% zoom then the K-7 will of course look worse. It has a lot more pixels and everything else being equal the higher number of pixels will show less local contrast. To check the AF accuracy of your K-7 you may want to have a look at these Autofocus Adjustment Hints.

05-24-2010, 04:06 AM	#10
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	I think that you will find that the K7 sensor out resolves the original kit lens capabilities, although unless you are looking at a pixel level photo it should still have more detail in it than the K100 offers. The things others suggest are worth looking into. Make certain the lens isn't front or back focusing, make certain there isn't an adjustment in Jpeg development that you could make. I would get another lens -- whatever you can afford. Maybe a manual focus 50 and compare the two. Should find that it is significantly sharper with that. Oh, and post photos...

05-24-2010, 04:24 AM	#11
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	Originally posted by ntlegg Hi all - Recently upgraded from my trusty K100D to the K-7, and am fairly dissatisfied with the move at this point. Compared with my K100D photos, the K-7 images generally just seem less sharp. For reference, I am using the same kit lens as I used with the K100D (saving up for an upgrade). I shoot exclusively in manual mode and have shot in all different apertures, shutter speeds, and ISOs, used a tripod, and tried anything I can think of short of purchasing a new lens in an attempt to find a solution. I am having no luck. Is this a common problem? Any hints? Am I missing something? Thanks for your help in advance. I am open to hearing any ideas.. Nick Just as GrinMode and Rondec wrote: you saved in the wrong place. The old, original kit lens, that came with your K100 was replaced with version II to meet the increased requirements of the higher res sensors. If you try to look at images from your K100 and from the K7 at the same size (not at the same magnification setting) the image should appear similar. Some lenses are so much overstrained, that their contrast breaks in completely and then the images are much worse, than on low res sensors, even at the same image size. My copy of the Sigma 24-135/2.8-4.5 being a "good" example of this. Ben

05-24-2010, 05:09 AM	#12
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Ben_Edict Some lenses are so much overstrained, that their contrast breaks in completely and then the images are much worse, than on low res sensors, even at the same image size. I find this hard to believe. Even if a sensor already out resolves a lens, making it resolve more, will still improve the image quality (because MTF curves are multiplied in an optical chain). Something else must be going on, if you really observe a degradation when going to a better resolving sensor.

05-24-2010, 07:31 AM	#13
henryjing Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: United States Posts: 467	Acctually I have the same problem about the K-7 sharpness, anybody has a suggestion of K-7 in-camera setup?

05-24-2010, 09:52 AM	#14
Just1MoreDave Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Aurora, CO Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,340	Originally posted by henryjing Acctually I have the same problem about the K-7 sharpness, anybody has a suggestion of K-7 in-camera setup? This is important advice so I'm repeating it: Originally posted by Class A Are you comparing the shots at the same size (say 5x7) or do you "pixel peep"? If you do the latter, i.e., look at a 100% zoom then the K-7 will of course look worse. It has a lot more pixels and everything else being equal the higher number of pixels will show less local contrast. I noticed that Adobe Camera RAW 5.5 was applying sharpening in the converter for the K-7, and I had turned it off for the *ist DS. That's about the extent of my sharpness comparison so far.

05-24-2010, 12:13 PM	#15
alexeyga Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 838	It's fairly easy to check the AF accuracy on K7... 1)setup a target (closer to the camera is better) (the famous 3 AA-batteries test or the plain and simple any TEXT at 45 deg) 2)setup the camera on a tripod and don't forget to turn the SR off 3)if you have a remote, use it, if not setup the camera into 2sec timer mode. 4)open up the apperture 5)take a shot looking throught the VF 6)throw the lens out of focus 7)take a shot using LV using the AF-button to focus 8)throw the lens out of focus 9)still in LV, switch to MF, zoom-in 100% on your target and focus by hands... until you see that it's dead sharp! take the shot... One of these pics will tell you the truth... But carefull.... there are somethimes things that are best to left unknown...