Upgrading from K10d to Kx--Should I do it?

MSM · 05-26-2010, 02:15 PM

@ecaterin: Thanks again. Now, I would still have to deal with picking a Kx color!

tokyoso · 05-26-2010, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by annod

Hi all,

I have had a K10d for a coupla years now. I haven't been taken the K10d out of my house because it always seem just a little too heavy and bulky. Among other things, the Kx is attractive to me because of the smaller size and lighter weight. I only use small primes so the I expect I would feel the weight difference. Video is nice. I don't really care about the extra megapixels.

I wonder if the Kx will also improve on the following:
-AF speed, especially when taking candid portraits
-High ISO IQ
-dynamic range or overall IQ
-Better out of the box jpegs

With my own wedding (no official photog) coming up, I would like to be able to hand my camera to a friend to shoot some nice pics (preferably jpegs if good enough, so it will take less time to process) and videos for us.

Things I may miss on the K10D:
-The top display. Are the controls on the K7 harder to use?
-better sealed body. (I do feel okay taking the K10D out in light rain with my cheap A 50mm f1.7 lens. Maybe I will need to be more cautious about using the Kx in light rain or on the beach)

Thanks,

k-x does pack a lot into a small body. god forbid it even comes with built-in microphone and speaker, likely at the expense of the top display.

still i cant consider going from a pro-sumer k10d to an entry k-x an official upgrade path ?

annod · 05-26-2010, 07:37 PM

Kx it will be then. Before I had the K10D, my last SLR was a MF Olympus Om-2N with only one lens: 50mm f1.8. It was small and light, even with its all metal construction (and inexpensive). I took it everywhere, used it for candid portraits, and general street shooting. So putting that in perspective, I think Kx will be a lot of camera for me, even though it is supposed to be an "entry level" camera. I like the K10D, and I think the new features/improvement on the Kx will be an upgrade for me personally.

Thank you all for your replies.

distudio · 05-26-2010, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by VaughnA

Ecartin is spot on. I sold my K20 and grip to get a K-x and haven't regretted it for the most part. Overall IQ is better and High ISO performance is remarkable. It's like buying 1-2 stop faster lenses all around. I don't miss the dual wheels or top LCD as much as I thought. The only negative is the limitation of not being able to use the timer and bracketing at the same time.

I'm not changing bodies until the the wished for K-7 with K-x performance arrives.

I absolutely agree, Ecartin's post was very close to the mark and I'm now at the point of deliberating whether to off load my K20D whilst I can still get decent money for it because it just doesn't get the use since my K-x purchase.

Ecaterin · 05-26-2010, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by MSM

@ecaterin: Thanks again. Now, I would still have to deal with picking a Kx color!

Oi! I really wanted a 2 lens package, so I didn't get the white stormtrooper Kx I lusted after, and it still makes me go grrrr :P But I'm very attached to mine, so I won't be selling it to buy a white one any time soon...I don't think

MSM · 06-13-2010, 08:44 PM

Well, thanks in large point to this thread, I bought a new Kx (@ Ecterin: the Stormtrooper Kx

) Wow, what a difference over the K10d. The AF speed and accuracy gains as well as the high ISO, it is truly amazing. Much less hunting in low light or low contrast. I must say I don't miss the top LCD or the front dial (except for reviewing pics as mentioned above.) The lack of VF focus points concern is overstated, IMO. I turned them off in my K10 along with the beep anyway. I know where my selected focus point is in the VF and the green hexagon provides the AF confirmation if I can't tell with my eyes. Also interesting is that I found using the manual mode quite easy without the 2nd edial. I had used mostly Av mode with my K10d. Now, I have been just having fun using M mode with the Kx.

Anyone out there concerned going from a k10 to a Kx is not an upgrade, don't worry it truly is. I posted this here in part because only my friends here @PF can understand what getting these kind of improvements mean. My wife is more like "Why do you need a new camera?" I have found that when the spouse brings out the 'Why do you need to get a new (blank)?' line of question that it is a potent toxin to LBA/CBA.

Ecaterin · 06-13-2010, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by MSM

Well, thanks in large point to this thread, I bought a new Kx (@ Ecterin: the Stormtrooper Kx

)

A big congratulations!!! Can't wait to see your Kx photos

Glen_S · 07-05-2010, 09:50 PM

After using the Kx I bought for my wife I am sorely tempted to trade my K10 in for one, the fps speed alone is almost reason enough. When I am taking pictures of an Osprey diving I easily get double or more the frames on the K-X

I'm thinking though to perhaps save my shekels for the K-7, assuming of course it is as fast (or faster) than the K-X..

hegedus · 07-09-2010, 10:18 PM

Is there a big difference in out-of-the-camera jpegs? I am also considering on replacing my k10d with k-x. I do a lot of family pictures, kids mostly. I hate k10d's white ballance, it is almoust never right to my eyes. Shooting raw is a solution, but it takes me to much time afterwards to correct all the images. I use to have canon 350d, and I almoust never had to shoot raw for family occasions.

Marc Sabatella · 07-10-2010, 01:58 PM

When you say the K10D's WB is almost never right, which WB setting do mean? Of course AEB won't be worth much, but are you saying you don't like the Tungsten preset either? Does the K10D not have the ability to customize those presets? And what about using manual WB?

hegedus · 07-11-2010, 06:32 AM

Yes, sorry, I should be more specific. When I say that my K10D is almost never right, I mean auto WB in daylight and flash situations. I owned Canon 350d and 40d models, and I almost never had to adjust WB in daylight situations. By daylight I mean all possible outdoor shooting - cloudy, shade, sunny conditions. Also, I used to take a lot of indoor pictures using just daylight coming from wide opened window curtains, and I always had good results.
When I was shooting some really importaint occasions, I shoot raw+jpeg and if I was not satisfied with camera jpegs, I just did it manually.
I don't need all of my pictures to be perfect, because they are mostly family portraits and situations. But, K10D misses the right WB to often for my taste.
Of course, I can always correct WB in Silkypix, but I don't want to shoot raw all the time. I simply don't have enough time to play around with all those raw shots, so I would like to have the confidence in my camera to do it for me.
That's why I ask about K-x auto WB, because I hope that it does it better than K10D.
Here are few examples. All pictures are developed from raw in Silkypix. First picture is Camera WB, second manual WB, or the one that seems right for my taste.

Marc Sabatella · 07-11-2010, 11:12 AM

I'd say tht either your monitor is not calibrated (red-deficient) or you just like your pictures coolrer than others don't. Your "fixed" versions look too magenta on my calibrated monitor - especially #1. I'd probably prefer something about half way between the default and your processed version for #2 (that's the only one here the camera's choice would have caused me to bother changing anything), but for #1 & #3 I'd take the camera's version without a second thought. Actually, it's harder to tell on #3 because you also changed the exposure, it seems, and I notice that more than a color difference.

In any case, I think you are being overly optimistic in expecting any camera to consistly read your mind about how you subjectively want your colors to look. WB is more an art than a science.

lesmore49 · 07-11-2010, 11:41 AM

I agree with Adam.

I have the K10D and the KM (K2000). The KM is one step earlier then the KX, but it does have some improved features over the K10D.

I use both, but I find the K10D, while getting old is a tough, robust camera . I can't see myself getting rid of it...even when eventually I get a K8 or...K9 ?

MPrince · 07-11-2010, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

I'd say tht either your monitor is not calibrated (red-deficient) or you just like your pictures coolrer than others don't. Your "fixed" versions look too magenta on my calibrated monitor - especially #1. I'd probably prefer something about half way between the default and your processed version for #2 (that's the only one here the camera's choice would have caused me to bother changing anything), but for #1 & #3 I'd take the camera's version without a second thought. Actually, it's harder to tell on #3 because you also changed the exposure, it seems, and I notice that more than a color difference.

In any case, I think you are being overly optimistic in expecting any camera to consistly read your mind about how you subjectively want your colors to look. WB is more an art than a science.

I agree with Marc, and I've never calibrated my monitor. The 'as shot' photos look more natural to my eye than than the adjusted images.

Keep in mind, however, that AWB has a range of 4000-8000K. If you are shooting outside that range with AWB, you will not get good results.

hegedus · 07-12-2010, 12:29 AM

Yes, you are right Marc, I do like a little bit cooler colors. Sometimes I have a feeling that my pictures have some kind of yellow/brown layer that I should remove. When I print my pictures at local photo studio, they all look ok to me, just like on my monitor.
Also, #2 picture is the best example of my problem, #1 and #3 are here just to show this little color shift that I don't like. I applyed only some levels correction to all of them, and some sharpening after resize.
Now when I look my pictures back from my canon camera, they are really cooler in color temperature. It seems that I got used to that, and maybe is the time to change my taste

Thanks to all for your help!
Just one more thing - so K-x behaves about the same like K10D in determining auto WB?

05-26-2010, 07:37 PM	#18
annod Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Bay Area Posts: 60 Original Poster	alright, i am sold! Kx it will be then. Before I had the K10D, my last SLR was a MF Olympus Om-2N with only one lens: 50mm f1.8. It was small and light, even with its all metal construction (and inexpensive). I took it everywhere, used it for candid portraits, and general street shooting. So putting that in perspective, I think Kx will be a lot of camera for me, even though it is supposed to be an "entry level" camera. I like the K10D, and I think the new features/improvement on the Kx will be an upgrade for me personally. Thank you all for your replies.

06-13-2010, 08:44 PM	#21
MSM Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Alabama Photos: Gallery Posts: 994	Well, thanks in large point to this thread, I bought a new Kx (@ Ecterin: the Stormtrooper Kx) Wow, what a difference over the K10d. The AF speed and accuracy gains as well as the high ISO, it is truly amazing. Much less hunting in low light or low contrast. I must say I don't miss the top LCD or the front dial (except for reviewing pics as mentioned above.) The lack of VF focus points concern is overstated, IMO. I turned them off in my K10 along with the beep anyway. I know where my selected focus point is in the VF and the green hexagon provides the AF confirmation if I can't tell with my eyes. Also interesting is that I found using the manual mode quite easy without the 2nd edial. I had used mostly Av mode with my K10d. Now, I have been just having fun using M mode with the Kx. Anyone out there concerned going from a k10 to a Kx is not an upgrade, don't worry it truly is. I posted this here in part because only my friends here @PF can understand what getting these kind of improvements mean. My wife is more like "Why do you need a new camera?" I have found that when the spouse brings out the 'Why do you need to get a new (blank)?' line of question that it is a potent toxin to LBA/CBA.

06-13-2010, 09:20 PM	#22
Ecaterin Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Seattle Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 723	Originally posted by MSM Well, thanks in large point to this thread, I bought a new Kx (@ Ecterin: the Stormtrooper Kx) A big congratulations!!! Can't wait to see your Kx photos

07-11-2010, 02:05 PM	#29
MPrince Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: WV Posts: 1,495	Originally posted by Marc Sabatella I'd say tht either your monitor is not calibrated (red-deficient) or you just like your pictures coolrer than others don't. Your "fixed" versions look too magenta on my calibrated monitor - especially #1. I'd probably prefer something about half way between the default and your processed version for #2 (that's the only one here the camera's choice would have caused me to bother changing anything), but for #1 & #3 I'd take the camera's version without a second thought. Actually, it's harder to tell on #3 because you also changed the exposure, it seems, and I notice that more than a color difference. In any case, I think you are being overly optimistic in expecting any camera to consistly read your mind about how you subjectively want your colors to look. WB is more an art than a science. I agree with Marc, and I've never calibrated my monitor. The 'as shot' photos look more natural to my eye than than the adjusted images. Keep in mind, however, that AWB has a range of 4000-8000K. If you are shooting outside that range with AWB, you will not get good results. Last edited by MPrince; 07-11-2010 at 02:12 PM.

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05-26-2010, 02:15 PM	#16
MSM Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Alabama Photos: Gallery Posts: 994	@ecaterin: Thanks again. Now, I would still have to deal with picking a Kx color!

05-26-2010, 03:43 PM	#17
tokyoso Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tokyo Photos: Albums Posts: 723	Originally posted by annod Hi all, I have had a K10d for a coupla years now. I haven't been taken the K10d out of my house because it always seem just a little too heavy and bulky. Among other things, the Kx is attractive to me because of the smaller size and lighter weight. I only use small primes so the I expect I would feel the weight difference. Video is nice. I don't really care about the extra megapixels. I wonder if the Kx will also improve on the following: -AF speed, especially when taking candid portraits -High ISO IQ -dynamic range or overall IQ -Better out of the box jpegs With my own wedding (no official photog) coming up, I would like to be able to hand my camera to a friend to shoot some nice pics (preferably jpegs if good enough, so it will take less time to process) and videos for us. Things I may miss on the K10D: -The top display. Are the controls on the K7 harder to use? -better sealed body. (I do feel okay taking the K10D out in light rain with my cheap A 50mm f1.7 lens. Maybe I will need to be more cautious about using the Kx in light rain or on the beach) Thanks, k-x does pack a lot into a small body. god forbid it even comes with built-in microphone and speaker, likely at the expense of the top display. still i cant consider going from a pro-sumer k10d to an entry k-x an official upgrade path ?

05-26-2010, 07:52 PM	#19
distudio Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney Photos: Albums Posts: 450	Originally posted by VaughnA Ecartin is spot on. I sold my K20 and grip to get a K-x and haven't regretted it for the most part. Overall IQ is better and High ISO performance is remarkable. It's like buying 1-2 stop faster lenses all around. I don't miss the dual wheels or top LCD as much as I thought. The only negative is the limitation of not being able to use the timer and bracketing at the same time. I'm not changing bodies until the the wished for K-7 with K-x performance arrives. I absolutely agree, Ecartin's post was very close to the mark and I'm now at the point of deliberating whether to off load my K20D whilst I can still get decent money for it because it just doesn't get the use since my K-x purchase.

05-26-2010, 08:51 PM	#20
Ecaterin Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Seattle Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 723	Originally posted by MSM @ecaterin: Thanks again. Now, I would still have to deal with picking a Kx color! Oi! I really wanted a 2 lens package, so I didn't get the white stormtrooper Kx I lusted after, and it still makes me go grrrr :P But I'm very attached to mine, so I won't be selling it to buy a white one any time soon...I don't think

07-05-2010, 09:50 PM	#23
Glen_S Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 105	After using the Kx I bought for my wife I am sorely tempted to trade my K10 in for one, the fps speed alone is almost reason enough. When I am taking pictures of an Osprey diving I easily get double or more the frames on the K-X I'm thinking though to perhaps save my shekels for the K-7, assuming of course it is as fast (or faster) than the K-X..

07-09-2010, 10:18 PM	#24
hegedus Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Croatia Posts: 180	Is there a big difference in out-of-the-camera jpegs? I am also considering on replacing my k10d with k-x. I do a lot of family pictures, kids mostly. I hate k10d's white ballance, it is almoust never right to my eyes. Shooting raw is a solution, but it takes me to much time afterwards to correct all the images. I use to have canon 350d, and I almoust never had to shoot raw for family occasions.

07-10-2010, 01:58 PM	#25
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	When you say the K10D's WB is almost never right, which WB setting do mean? Of course AEB won't be worth much, but are you saying you don't like the Tungsten preset either? Does the K10D not have the ability to customize those presets? And what about using manual WB?

07-11-2010, 06:32 AM	#26
hegedus Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Croatia Posts: 180	Yes, sorry, I should be more specific. When I say that my K10D is almost never right, I mean auto WB in daylight and flash situations. I owned Canon 350d and 40d models, and I almost never had to adjust WB in daylight situations. By daylight I mean all possible outdoor shooting - cloudy, shade, sunny conditions. Also, I used to take a lot of indoor pictures using just daylight coming from wide opened window curtains, and I always had good results. When I was shooting some really importaint occasions, I shoot raw+jpeg and if I was not satisfied with camera jpegs, I just did it manually. I don't need all of my pictures to be perfect, because they are mostly family portraits and situations. But, K10D misses the right WB to often for my taste. Of course, I can always correct WB in Silkypix, but I don't want to shoot raw all the time. I simply don't have enough time to play around with all those raw shots, so I would like to have the confidence in my camera to do it for me. That's why I ask about K-x auto WB, because I hope that it does it better than K10D. Here are few examples. All pictures are developed from raw in Silkypix. First picture is Camera WB, second manual WB, or the one that seems right for my taste.

07-11-2010, 11:12 AM	#27
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	I'd say tht either your monitor is not calibrated (red-deficient) or you just like your pictures coolrer than others don't. Your "fixed" versions look too magenta on my calibrated monitor - especially #1. I'd probably prefer something about half way between the default and your processed version for #2 (that's the only one here the camera's choice would have caused me to bother changing anything), but for #1 & #3 I'd take the camera's version without a second thought. Actually, it's harder to tell on #3 because you also changed the exposure, it seems, and I notice that more than a color difference. In any case, I think you are being overly optimistic in expecting any camera to consistly read your mind about how you subjectively want your colors to look. WB is more an art than a science.

07-11-2010, 11:41 AM	#28
lesmore49 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Western Canada Posts: 12,344	I agree with Adam. I have the K10D and the KM (K2000). The KM is one step earlier then the KX, but it does have some improved features over the K10D. I use both, but I find the K10D, while getting old is a tough, robust camera . I can't see myself getting rid of it...even when eventually I get a K8 or...K9 ?

07-12-2010, 12:29 AM	#30
hegedus Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Croatia Posts: 180	Yes, you are right Marc, I do like a little bit cooler colors. Sometimes I have a feeling that my pictures have some kind of yellow/brown layer that I should remove. When I print my pictures at local photo studio, they all look ok to me, just like on my monitor. Also, #2 picture is the best example of my problem, #1 and #3 are here just to show this little color shift that I don't like. I applyed only some levels correction to all of them, and some sharpening after resize. Now when I look my pictures back from my canon camera, they are really cooler in color temperature. It seems that I got used to that, and maybe is the time to change my taste Thanks to all for your help! Just one more thing - so K-x behaves about the same like K10D in determining auto WB?